Latest activity

Latest activity

 Social Media Forum list

WNT, WPA and 2026

J
Rocket354 said:
Forgot to address this. I hope the two organizations can work together in the future. But for right now, they are largely competitors.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but I don't expect this to change anytime soon. For now I hope the competition sharpens both of them, and shows us what works and what doesn't.

Your responses to my post above were reasonable. I don't quibble with them.

In my view, the only way pro pool might achieve notably more commercial success is if there is a predictable tour or season, much like with Nascar or tennis and golf. Even then I have my doubts.

Predator hasn't tried to create a season. To me, it just holds a bunch of disparate events, none of them really connected to each other aside from the ability to earn WPA points for admittance to other PBS events.

Predator is also creating all these so-called "World" Championships, and not just in 8 and 10 ball. I find it almost amusing, though it doesn't really matter.

WNT is trying to build an actual tour in which success over the course of the season means something and leads to something. Originally participation in the Mosconi. Now the Reyes. And evidently the World Pool Masters.

It's been a bit of a rough go so far. WNT has clearly made some mistakes (I hate the Reyes format). I won't rehash them. We know what they are.

Predator's new "all-star" format appears to a form of trying to address this.
Click to expand...

Best Handicapping System

S
mikepage said:
I'm not following what your format is nor understanding your objection. Here is what it MIGHT be. Perhaps this will help us to communicate.
Click to expand...
Here is the handicap summary from last Monday's 9 ball match (I did not play, I am a 556):

Given the Fargo Handicap Table attached as an image and the teams below, each player's handicap is shown to the right of their Fargo rating:

1786037095900.png


Team A (us)
430 : 0
483 : 3
500 : 4
503 : 4
summed total (1916 total Fargo) : 12

Team B (them)
323 : -5
517 : 4
515 : 4
439 : 1
summed total (1794 total Fargo) : 4

Using the difference of 8 between the two teams the game handicap calculation is multiply by .2 and round (.5 and greater round up, otherwise round down) which equals a 2 game advantage for every frame. A match consists of 8 individual (no race of any kind) games played per frame with 4 frames total (each player plays 2 games per frame in a round robin fashion). You can see where this is going. Basically our team has to win 6 out of the 8 games to win a frame, which given how the individual and total Fargo ratings match up, it is quite an uphill battle (if we win 5 and they win 3, they get the 2 games which results in a tie plus if we win less we lose the frame). We have had matches earlier in the season where we have had to give up 4 games for every frame (we have to play for a tie) and once we had to give up 5 games per frame (cannot win any frame or match).

So my point is, this system is a double whammy against the stronger team:
  1. initial Fargo Handicap Table is quite favored to lower players
  2. giving up games instead of balls / points prevents the stronger team from ever having a chance to win the games that were adjusted for the match
Not a very fun league to play in and our team probably would not have if we knew about this new 9 ball handicap system the League Operator wanted to try because he wants to continue to grow the league.
Click to expand...

WNT, WPA and 2026

Rocket354
jbart65 said:
I like what Predator is doing, but I don't see it as either/or.

Nothing is free, of course. Somebody is paying for hosting the attendees or letting people watch live streams.

The question is, does "free" in this regard generate more revenue overall than requiring onsite attendees to pay, plus pay per view? If not, the players do not benefit ultimately. They only benefit is if the, well, pool of money grows steadily over time and it gets distributed to the players.

In any case, all sports leagues use different business models, but virtually all require some form of payment from customers. You can still watch your local NFL team for "free" over the air TV, but that's about it. Most have to pay to see their MLB, NBA, NHL and even their college sports team play.


Don't care. Players adjust. All I care about is that I can easily distinguish the balls on TV.

I wouldn't want to see multiple events going on in and around the US Open. Some big events demand their own time in the sun. Players can get too spread out playing multiple events at a time.

That said, Predator does multiple events well, and they are enjoyable.

Predator and WNT are similar, but a cursory look suggests WNT pays slightly more for big men's events relative to Predator.

WPA/Predator 10-ball World title has a $300,000 fund. Ditto for the Predator 8-ball World Champion. The other big Predator events in the past year have paid out $125,000 or $100,000 in total.

All WNT majors with 256 players pay at least $225,000. US Open has a $500,000 fund. The World Pool Championship was paying $1 million, but it might not be held this year. We don't know what the next payout will be in light of the shortening of the deal with Saudi Arabia.

Sorry, I think this is nonsense. Predator is using one business model, WNT another. The only thing Matchroom gets out of me is a subscription for WNT. TV. That's it.

I am happy to pay it. Free for me, the fan, means the players don't get much. Pool doesn't get much ad revenue or attract big companies as sponsors outside of the industry.

I would guess Predator is trying to see if it gets enough eyeballs from "free" viewing that it can attract more fans and translate that into more ad revenue.

It would be great if it worked, but I don't see it happening. My guess is WNT's dual part-pay, part free approach will work a bit better, but I am not sure either Predator or WNT can turn pro pool into a big moneymaker with broad advertising partners.
Click to expand...
In order....

1) It's free to me. I don't pay for a subscription or for a ticket.
2) I care as a viewer
3) Multiple events are almost always more interesting, although I agree something like the US Open is great as a standalone.
4) The fact that Predator can put out similar-sized (and sometimes bigger) prize pools than MR without charging the consumer is a huge plus.
5) They are using different business models. And Predator's is more appealing to this fan. It's hard to say the players don't get much when they get about just as much as from MR. Yes, Predator events exist mostly to promote their brand and sell their stuff. But so what? I get to watch great pool. I hope their business model holds up.
Click to expand...

To Be a Better Player

july9x
ShootingArts said:
Straight pool and one pocket both count balls, no money ball except whichever you shoot last. Not sure what you mean by your last line, we all work with what we have but you seem like you might be ignoring your best days. There are a handful of times in your life, maybe more for some, when magic is in the air. Fire at five rails and it falls like a hanger. I enjoy those days to the fullest.

The local bar had an elite few players, a group I hadn't been admitted to at fifteen. Then I had a shot that involved a 3/4 table kick into a carom with the money ball about a foot from the side pocket angling into it. The man I was playing was a recently retired pro boxer so I went over to where he was talking and explained the shot, verifying it was legal. We were friendly but not friends and I wasn't looking for a fight with William over a few dollars! Never forgot that shot, it was the one I made my bones with. After that I was accepted as a player, not a banger. I have learned if I see a shot falling before I shoot it almost always will. If I can't visualize it falling I am probably whistling Dixie!

Hu
Click to expand...
I feel you, had those moments before.
I can visualize running out the table 100% of time, always, but only can execute it maybe 1 or 2 every 100 (9-ball) games. Guess my Fargo!
Click to expand...
Load more

Filter

Back
Top