GideonF said:

Thanks for the report.

Are you saying that the tables play so much differently than other tables with say brand new Simonis and brand new balls? In other words, is it just the new tournament conditions or is it the specific cloth being used (CPBA)?

I remember a pro I know (in the 750 Fargo range) who played Shane on the TV table at the DCC one year. His comment to me was something like “it’s bad enough that he’s better than me, but he also plays on new cloth and under the TV lights all the time and I never do”.

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Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I've played on a brand new blue label diamond with brand new simonis 860 hr and one with 860 and one with 760 and this table with their cloth plays completely differently than anything else I've ever played on.

The first time I sent the cb 3 rails around the table, I was literally in shock at the path the ball took.
Now don't get me wrong, these are the best tables I've EVER played on, the cb bites really well, draw is super easy, etc. It just doesn't react the way you expect it to.

I ordered the cloth the day after I got home. I just want to get used to it. It plays great.

decent dennis said:

Didn’t see the earlier breaks but the one in question looked fine he just hit it thin and I don’t think he received a warning prior.

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I watched the whole match. Robbie was breaking the same as 80-90% of the top pros.

The guys like Shane, Biggest Kaçi and Shaw are the exception that thump the break more, IMO.

Unless MR sent something out to everyone or said something at the players meeting, it seems odd to suddenly enforce it with a foul, especially with someone who is far from the worst offender. Especially in this case when he did hit it harder than he had before but just caught it thin.

JAM said:

Darren argues that professional pool is a growing sport with entertainment possibilities, but its tournament economics are not sustainable for the majority of professional players. And I agree 100 percent. It's the same old battle cry I've been saying for decades.

His criticism isn't simply that there isn't enough prize money, though. He believes the payouts are distributed poorly. A $40,000 winner's prize, as an example, sounds great, but if a player spends 2- to $3,000 to enter a tournament and receives only $350 after an early loss, the tournament is financially disastrous, even for the strong pros in the top 20.

His proposed philosophy is to lower the extreme top-end payouts , pay more players, cover more of their real expenses, create a stable calendar, and most importantly, make professional pool a financially viable career.

He repeatedly acknowledges the improvements in production, venues, international events, and investment, but he believes the organizers like WNT, WPA, and Predator Pro Billiards Series need to coordinate better.

The underlying message is optimistic that pool has enormous potential, but the industry needs to build a sustainable ecosystem around the pro players who actually make the tournaments possible. Without them, there is no future in pool. Darren made some valid points, but me personally, I think the promoters care more about pleasing the industry members (sponsors) than they do the future careers of pro players. Without the sponsors, there is no future in pool. What a quagmire!

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Thanks so much, JAM.
And Stu for your thoughts.
I'd just say that for now, the top end prize money isn't so much that spreading it around would make a real difference attempting to help dozens of more players. Hopefully one day it will be enough, but folks have been hoping that for a long time.
I am interested to see what getting the US Open onto ESPN this year does for the game. Most non-players I know, and even many bar bangers, lower level league players, and occasional players have no idea there is a pro pool tour. How many of them will notice it and take an interest from seeing it on TV?
The one thing I will say about playing on tour and doing well is that it raises player's visibility to make of that what they can, whether in giving lessons or arranging money/challenge matches, or like Daz, getting people to your social media/youtube. That obviously isn't the goal of the tour, but it does help.

Jaden said:

… but these tables played so differently than any I've ever played it was ridiculous.

JJ even commented on how much the balls were sliding. His comment wasn't strong enough. The balls would take paths completely abnormal to what they normally would. The tightness of the tables were not a problem. I wasn't missing shots because of the tight pockets. I was overshooting shape horribly and then understroking in an attempt to compensate and I literally would need 3-4 days to acclimate to the conditions rather than the 30-40 minutes of actual play that I got and that was with sitting in the practice room for 4 hours on Thursday.

So it's not a surprise that players that aren't regularly competing on this equipment aren't making rounds. I can't reiterate enough how differently these tables play and again, the tightness is NOT the issue. I've always preferred a tight table and had no trouble making shots, it was accurately predicting what the cb and ob's would do coming off the rails and how far they would roll.

I now understand why Shane punches the cb the way he does, it keeps you from hitting tentatively to control the cb on such fast and different conditions.

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Thanks for the report.

Are you saying that the tables play so much differently than other tables with say brand new Simonis and brand new balls? In other words, is it just the new tournament conditions or is it the specific cloth being used (CPBA)?

I remember a pro I know (in the 750 Fargo range) who played Shane on the TV table at the DCC one year. His comment to me was something like “it’s bad enough that he’s better than me, but he also plays on new cloth and under the TV lights all the time and I never do”.

jayman said:

I never smile. I'm serious.

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Never show your teeth when money is involved

Frosty said:

I never knew this. I know in some of their early cues they experimented with Areno Blanco. I had one of their first big pin flat face ivory jointed cues that both shafts were made of Areno Blanco.

It was an unusual wood, almost grainless. It played fabulously though. I was robbed of that cue at gunpoint in the mid 90’s in NYC, I was heartbroken over it then and now, never found another cue that hit like that.

I talked to Dan Janes about making another to replace it. He told that he and Bill had loved Areno Blanco as a shaft wood but supply problems such as you describe led to them abandoning using it.

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Maybe that's what I was thinking of? Areno blanko.

I may have got the wood name wrong.

So I'll say one thing about this. The WNT major open events, I consider any event where they're setting up the WNT tables and not holding it in a pool room like the phoenix open next week, to be a major, which is what seems Matchroom does too, are definitely geared more towards the player that regularly play in those events. I've traveled all over the country and in many places around the world playing pool and I've always been able to adjust to conditions fairly quickly.

There were a limited amount of practice tables and some changes that were questionable, more on that in a minute. There were only two practice tables, even though there was room in the practice table room for at least 2 more. They would let players practice on the non tv tables from 12 to about 1245, but these tables played so differently than any I've ever played it was ridiculous.

JJ even commented on how much the balls were sliding. His comment wasn't strong enough. The balls would take paths completely abnormal to what they normally would. The tightness of the tables were not a problem. I wasn't missing shots because of the tight pockets. I was overshooting shape horribly and then understroking in an attempt to compensate and I literally would need 3-4 days to acclimate to the conditions rather than the 30-40 minutes of actual play that I got and that was with sitting in the practice room for 4 hours on Thursday.

Now back to the poor communication. So the players got a letter a few days before the tourney that they would open the room for practice from 6-9 pm on wednesday. I planned everything around this, even extended my stay at the hotel to Wednesday and went a day earlier than I was planning. Luckily for me I went down there based on check in for the hotel, because when I checked in at 3 and went up and dropped off all of my stuff in the room. I came down to check in and get my wrist band and the room was already open for practice.

They ended up opening the room for practice 3 hours earlier than communicated and because of that, they closed it down and kicked everyone out at 7 instead of 9. Then they sent out an update email on the praactice times at 11:40 p.m., so 4.5 hours after they kicked everyone out of the room. Not to mention there were 6 players to a table for practice so there wasn't a lot of practice going on.

So it's not a surprise that players that aren't regularly competing on this equipment aren't making rounds. I can't reiterate enough how differently these tables play and again, the tightness is NOT the issue. I've always preferred a tight table and had no trouble making shots, it was accurately predicting what the cb and ob's would do coming off the rails and how far they would roll.

I now understand why Shane punches the cb the way he does, it keeps you from hitting tentatively to control the cb on such fast and different conditions.

Just watching the SVB-Vogel match. Jeremy Jones' "Sayonara, see you later" while the 6-ball was still halfway to the pocket was right up there with David Feherty's "Oh baby, come to papa" when Oosthuisen got the double-eagle at the Masters.

Oh, and the shot was great, too.

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Chopdoc said:

Joss once experimented with Lignum Vitae. I think it was good but there was a supply problem. White, dense, straight grain. I never played one but they have been discussed here.

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I never knew this. I know in some of their early cues they experimented with Areno Blanco. I had one of their first big pin flat face ivory jointed cues that both shafts were made of Areno Blanco.

It was an unusual wood, almost grainless. It played fabulously though. I was robbed of that cue at gunpoint in the mid 90’s in NYC, I was heartbroken over it then and now, never found another cue that hit like that.

I talked to Dan Janes about making another to replace it. He told that he and Bill had loved Areno Blanco as a shaft wood but supply problems such as you describe led to them abandoning using it.