Cuaba said:

After I didn't write a 4th Edition Blue Book Publications stopped paying me royalties for the online version.

I tried to buy the project for myself and we made a deal for me to own, author, and publish the next book. But when they brought me a contract, they retained the online rights. I did not sign it, we parted ways, and I never received money after that for online sales.

I'm curious as to what their online revenues were ? It was my book...

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Thanks so much for chiming in on that.

Believe it or not I didn't even own a Blue Book until a few months ago, and I have been collecting over 20 years. I never even saw one. Then I bought a First Edition a few months ago and my wife got me a Second Edition for Christmas. I still don't have a Third.

In spite of that I became knowledgeable about a number of makers and cue history. Although I collect cues, I am more a collector of knowledge. And I am a research nut.

I had stepped away from all that for about five years and returned to it at the beginning of 2025. So, I was away from AZB for 5 years, although I was in touch with a handful of people.

It's a shame things went that way for you, the book, and the web site. Over the years several people have thought to create an online database, but never really got it together.

Although I hang around NPR a lot, that's not why I am here. I love the cues. When I have time I get into that. And people contact me regularly to identify cues. Last year I started working on updating and organizing my cue files which got scattered after changing PCs a couple times. I also started to make a more serious effort at doing an inventory of my cues, which is partially done and on hold because I got too busy with work.

Again, I really appreciate you chiming in on that. The whole Blue Book effort was sort of legendary.

That site, and all the pictures and info exists on a drive somewhere....maybe...possibly...something could happen at some point to revive all that. Those of us that are spectators can only hope.

An effort at a web site today could be really spectacular. I often wondered if AZB would somehow pick up such an effort.

Kind of funny I didn't know who you are...and you didn't know I am so into cues, I have posted a lot in the gallery, pictures and comments, as well as in the main forum. Over the years participated a lot in identifying cues. Lots of people around here know me that way. Just when we think it's a small world, it gets bigger.

Anyway, thanks for the books. I really dig them.

jsp said:

... EDIT: Nevermind. The version that I referenced was the call safe rule in which the shooter can call a safe, pocket a ball, and the incoming player is forced to shoot. The current rule that the incoming player has the choice to pass it back if a shot is slopped in is what negates that rule.

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The original WPA version of 10 ball, with call shot and "shoot again" had a "safety" call rule, but the rule had no effect. Calling safe did not cancel your opponent's right to force you to shoot again after making an uncalled ball. The whole point of calling a safe is that the other player has to shoot afterwards, regardless of what happens.

garczar said:

Agree 100%. What really kills me is that the two most watched/highest paying cue games on the planet, snooker and Heyball, allow flukes/slop/shit/pick ur adjective and no one whines about the luck factor. Even in 1p, supposedly the gold standard of pure skill, you see games won/lost on crazy slop shots. Again, no one bitches about it. But 10b must be held to some higher degree of 'purity'. Missing a ball is not a foul and should not be penalized as such. Thankfully no pro 10b events plays cs/cs.

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I’m not advocating that a missed ball be treated as a foul, but it should always be treated as a mistake - not as a flukey benefit by inadvertently snookering your opponent and forcing ball in hand.

Not saying that happens often in the pros, but in principle a miss should never be rewarded in a game of skill. Your opponent should get the option of taking the leave or passing back (that freedom of choice to your opponent is the punishment for the miss).

I’d take the same position for all games and restrict slop shots if I could. But honestly, the flukes do have entertainment value, and that drives the game forward in pop culture. However, in a measure of skill, there isn’t room for slop/flukes. That’s what championships are for, to see who’s the best and most skilled - not who can put up the most entertaining run out or who can level the playing field for those that need handicaps.

nicksaint26 said:

You ever hear of a two way shot? These rules completely take that option away.

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I'd even be satisfied if they did like with a time extension and gave one two way call per rack.

get a cuetech case, it'll fit in the long pouch

dreamhouse said:

I’ve been playing a lot of 10 ball lately because I enjoy calling shots. That takes a significant amount of luck out of the game (as an amateur player).

However, there’s still plenty of rolls to be had.

For example, if I rattle an object ball and my cue ball unintentionally lands wedged behind a group of other balls, brutally snookering my opponent, I’m probably going to get paid off with ball in hand - even though I was the one that made the mistake.

In 10 ball, if the shooter slops in a ball, the incoming player has the choice to either take the shot or pass it back. I’ve considered an additional rule that if the shooter misses their called shot, the incoming player also can choose to either take the shot or pass it back. This negates the lucky leaves where a player gets paid off for a miss.

Any thoughts? Has anyone tried this or a variation?

EDIT: Realized from some of your posts that this does exist as “Call Shot/Call Safe” 10 ball. Thanks!

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I've talked about this alooooooot in the past, and yes its true that missing a ball sometimes can be a blessing rather than a curse because as you said in pool if a player misses a shot and then what happens after it is cruel for the opponent, in other words like the example you said, then if that opponent dont hit the ball, even tho I've made a mistake I still got ball in hand, which is a very very very bad design in my opinion.

There are many other examples by the way, which brings up my old posts where I've spoken about small pockets and how they don't favor the game and pretty much due to the ("WHAT HAPPENS AFTEER" a player missing a ball) Type of game.

Because sometimes with small pockets there are many misses and then all that is added to the game is extra-luck factor, I've spoken about this and ppl asked me "How is smaller pockets adds more luck to the game" and I kept explaining that after a missed shot the thing to watch for is "WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THE MISS" will the incoming player get hooked? will the opponent who missed a shot i.e. made a mistake, will he come back smelling like roses with either an easy shot or ball in hand? I mean all those factors are just a luck-added to the game which is already terrible for the game, not to mention the other big luck factor which is the break....

But to me the missing balls luck factor is very bad and horrible design, think about it... a guy made a mistake but we dont know what will happen after, sometimes the next player gets a shot, sometimes the guy who missed the ball will get easier shot right after which means you have all in the hands of luck essentially, we don't know what will happen next.

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Ok so you said the solution is to have a call shots for everything, and call safe, so then if a player missed a ball, the next player can tell the oppoent shoot again.

To me I think this isnt good and can be boring....as some said, but I think the solution to this is a rule we have in 7ball game, which I believe should be a rule for all around rotation games like 9ball, 10ball and all, and this rule is very simple and can be described in one line.

A player with new inning always gets ball in hand, unless a safe is called.

Thats the rule, fixes everything.

There's no more "Oh I missed but what will happen after, is my opponent gona get luck safe?" -- this doesn't exist anymore, you will never see your oppoenent making cruel horrible shot and big mistake and after hanging at the table to see his leave and if he hooks you, no he wont stay at the table to do this which annoys the hell out of me....

If he misses? Ball in hand, instantly.

If he calls safe, then you play where it lands.

You have 3 SAFE calls during one rack as a maximum, this prevents boring game-play and allows for somewhat of a safety battle if needed.

This rule will fix everything, you dont even have to call pockets, just dont miss.....this also make the games more offensive, I like it!

DeeDeeCues said:

That doesn't make guessing or using AI any less stupid.

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Sounds like he took a picture and is trying to id the cue by the pin to decide if he wants to purchase it, That's hilarious! What a wasted thread

Coos Cues said:

Rules will not even the playing field against better players. Or make much difference at all no matter who is participating in the long run.

Lesser players get rolls and the better player usually overcome them in a match longer than three games. On rare occasions not but that is usually because the better player has an off day or the other player has a great day.

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I agree. Hope you are doing well Coos.

Never ever thought about my shoulder position while shooting. I have an idea.
Let's really complicate the game.
Pretty sure the stroke is delivered from a lower position than the shoulder like elbow or wrist. I could be wrong.

dreamhouse said:

Right - but these rules also negate slop shots and a significant amount of lucky rolls.

I’d sacrifice two way shots for that, personally.

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Exactly.

nicksaint26 said:

That’s not the way the game was meant to be played but to each their own. If I miss a ball and get perfect position on my next ball you should not be able to give it back because you can’t see the ball I missed.

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Interesting perspective and I guess that’s where we disagree. If you miss a ball (a critical error), I shouldn’t ever have to come with a hero kick/jump just to make legal contact - with a high probability of fouling and giving you ball in hand. You’re getting a golden reward for a missed ball, not a punishment.

A missed ball should not leave your opponent in an even worse situation without the choice to pass IMO (if we’re playing in competition and not just for fun).

vintagecollectibles831 said:

Leagues are very popular. Cash tournaments, not so much though.

This local pool hall here in Austin TX, called The Grand. Very nice pool hall, with all 9 foot Gold Crowns, I believe. They have league 4 or 5 times a week, but never any cash tournaments.

Lots of people here in TX love to play pool. I can see that much.

Speaking of cash Tournaments, this pool hall on the south side called, Betsy's, has a really good Sunday night tournament. No handicap. 9 ball, race to 4 in winners, and 3 in losers, and they get a full capped 32 player field every Sunday. There might be 50 or more players if it were not capped at 32 players though. If you do not get there at 6pm, for 7pm start, then you might not get a spot. $10 entry, and no green fee. Pretty awesome.

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I need to go back to the Grand. I love that place. I played an 8 ball league there a while back. Betsy's is great, but way too far South as is the Warehouse.

If you haven't and can handle smoking, make it up to Skinny Bob's. They have tournaments every day outside of Wednesdays and Thursdays.