Am I over reacting or is this owner actually an $#!?

[mikeyfrost]

You know while the players love tourneys you have to consider several things. First off the green fee is going to the tourney director. The rest of the money goes to the pot. The owner of the room meanwhile kicks in extra dough. So he started the day 1k in the hole. Now he has 10 tables out of business for two days, that hurts bad on a weekend when you make must of your week's take. Pool players like mountain dew and red bull much more than beer especially while they are being competitive. End of the day the bar is not making up the difference and when an event comes through the businesses usually lose. It sucks, I am friends with a room owner and he's broken it down to me that it is much more profitable to run business as normal on a weekend than put on a tourney and have his tables taken up for free.

About your experience specifically give him a second chance you have no idea of his situation. He may be two weeks late on a lease payment and is literally counting pennies trying to keep his room open. End of the day anyone can seem like an ass under the right circumstance. I'd give it another shot and talk to the room owner a little on the side and tell him what you saw and felt went on. You may get comped for the night and freeroll a night on the table of your choice. You may get it crammed deep up your.....either way you wont know til you try. Give him a shot. He opened the room to promote pool and help the players...no one would make that kind of investment to try to trump someone.

 

[Varney Cues]

I agree with you here BrooklynJay. This is a lot of heat for one guy's experience. I know Arthur from NYC as well, and he is a solid guy. He helped run Corner Billiards for years and worked at Chelsea before that so he does know how to run a poolroom. Not saying what happened didn't happen, but I'm sure he's feeling the pressure of just beginning a brand new business that hasn't taken off as planned yet. From a player's perspective, I heard the room is really nice and I think players shouldn't alienate the joint without checking it out for yourself first.

Exactly! Many of you should feel ashamed for bad mouthing this gentleman's business on just the thoughts of 1 individual. I think it was in very poor taste to come on here and name names the way he did. He could of told the story without mentioning the room name or the owners name if he just wanted opinions. Very poor taste indeed. Many of you would feel different if it was your business or job being trashed by all, simply for one person complaining about petty stuff. Hell the sun bothered me too during a match...Marge had to stand & block it while we finished the game then she moved us to another table. I had no problem practicing for free all weekend...neither did anyone else. So what...his bartender was late, he hasn't tinted the last couple windows yet, he was late for his match while trying to run a shorthanded business with the place absolutely slammed, and 1 guy complains about $5. Thats grounds to try and ruin the man? I think not. I bet if I call Shannon Daulton & tell him about this thread he'd have something to say for sure. Art has been first class to everyone else. For months before the joint opened he went around to many rooms handing out stacks of play for free cards to all that wanted them. Then spends top dollar to open a room with the finest of equipment. I for one am not about to take food out of the mouth of someone over one guys story. This Brian O'Neill even called his home room a "dive". I'm sure John the owner would be thrilled about that....at least he didn't mention that rooms name. Give me a break.

 

[catpool9]

New Pool Room

Sounds like you had a very "HORRID" experience to say the least!

You pretty much said it all when you said it was a new room, and the operators first Tournament. If they don't get it together soon, very soon, they "Will be the Ones Outta Business!":thumbup:



David Harcrow

 

[coop19772002]

Since this did happen at our event, I do feel inclined to post. First off, I want to apologize to you, Brian, for your expierence. This was the first tournament that Paradise has put on with any tour. I was unaware that there was problem with you getting a practice table. I had several players come up and ask about the practice tables and told them that all 16 of the Diamonds were open for practice. If I would have known I feel like I could have helped you out in the situation.
On the subject of the owner, Arthur, he is a very nice man. In his defense, I think that he and the staff were not prepared for the number of people that attended the event. Well, I know they weren't. He said he learned alot and would know what to do the next time we were there. They were not schooled on how the tournament tables should have been distributed. This is a new business and again they haven't had a tournament there before.
I just hate that you had a bad expierence at his room and at one of our tour stops. We strive to please the owners of the room, the players, the spectators, and our sponsors. I do know that Arthur loves the game and is trying to promote the sport all he can.
Again, I apologize for your expierence and hope that you will give Paradise another try.

Best regards,

Marge

 

[ribdoner]

Exactly! Many of you should feel ashamed for bad mouthing this gentleman's business on just the thoughts of 1 individual. I think it was in very poor taste to come on here and name names the way he did. He could of told the story without mentioning the room name or the owners name if he just wanted opinions. Very poor taste indeed. Many of you would feel different if it was your business or job being trashed by all, simply for one person complaining about petty stuff. Hell the sun bothered me too during a match...Marge had to stand & block it while we finished the game then she moved us to another table. I had no problem practicing for free all weekend...neither did anyone else. So what...his bartender was late, he hasn't tinted the last couple windows yet, he was late for his match while trying to run a shorthanded business with the place absolutely slammed, and 1 guy complains about $5. Thats grounds to try and ruin the man? I think not. I bet if I call Shannon Daulton & tell him about this thread he'd have something to say for sure. Art has been first class to everyone else. For months before the joint opened he went around to many rooms handing out stacks of play for free cards to all that wanted them. Then spends top dollar to open a room with the finest of equipment. I for one am not about to take food out of the mouth of someone over one guys story. This Brian O'Neill even called his home room a "dive". I'm sure John the owner would be thrilled about that....at least he didn't mention that rooms name. Give me a break.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Is ART the dark haired dude from NEW YAWK with the FANCY PALMER that hung in MOTHER'S around 91-94???

 

[Varney Cues]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Is ART the dark haired dude from NEW YAWK with the FANCY PALMER that hung in MOTHER'S around 91-94???

Very possibly...I guess that gray hair was dark at some point. He's friends with Ron Park & Ronnie practically lived there back then so I'd say a good chance. These days he's sporting a Black Boar with a...gasp....314 on it.
I miss that room. Mother's was the last of the REAL action joints in this area.
Like Steve said...it did get rough at the end. I managed it for a while...we had so much gunfire in the parking lot that I used to stop under the lights on the way home & check for bullet holes.

 

[CreeDo]

Thanks for reminding me not to take the local pool hall's super nice owner for granted.

I have some occasional gripes about it but I always know he will do the right thing and it's kept me coming back for over 10 years, even though there are other pool halls with nicer equipment and more players nearby.

Unless something drastic was changed/omitted from your side of the story, you're 100% correct to complain, and do it publicly, and to name names. The instant an owner tells the customer that they're wrong, that his employee could not possibly have made an error, they are saying either A: The customer is lying and trying to cheat them out of 7 measly bucks or B: The customer is an idiot for failing to understand someone who made things "very clear".

You can't insult customers that way for 7 bucks or even 100 bucks. It's wrong even if it doesn't cost you money (which it absolutely will).

 

[ribdoner]

Ron sparks

Very possibly...I guess that gray hair was dark at some point. He's friends with Ron Park & Ronnie practically lived there back then so I'd say a good chance. These days he's sporting a Black Boar with a...gasp....314 on it.
I miss that room. Mother's was the last of the REAL action joints in this area.
Like Steve said...it did get rough at the end. I managed it for a while...we had so much gunfire in the parking lot that I used to stop under the lights on the way home & check for bullet holes.

Back then he was RON SPARKS and rated something like a 55 in a quirky handicap system. The "twins" were like low 90's, Kanipes (sp?) about the same and GENE was a 40 something. IIRC MORROW was rated the highest and TONY was about 13 lookin like he was goin on 9, but, he was startin to dab em real sporty.



When "SPARKS" came in 3rd in the OPEN a few yrs later I tumbled to why i had trouble gettin there with him, esp considering the weight i was givin up


The company i worked for got bought out in early 96 so i stopped visiting at that time. Sorry to hear that the area got dicey...

 

[pooltchr]

On the subject of the owner, Arthur, he is a very nice man. In his defense, I think that he and the staff were not prepared for the number of people that attended the event. Well, I know they weren't. He said he learned alot and would know what to do the next time we were there. They were not schooled on how the tournament tables should have been distributed. This is a new business and again they haven't had a tournament there before.

Best regards,

Marge

I'm not taking sides in this issue, because I prefer to make decisions like this based on first hand knowledge. I was in Paradise when it first opened and it looked like a pretty nice place. But this is not the first "less than stellar" review I have heard on the place.

It has been posted on this thread that the owner has experience running other pool rooms. I guess my question is how could he be surprised by the turnout for a regional tour stop, or how tournament tables should be distributed? I ran a tour for several years, and it only takes one to learn what to expect. I would expect a new room holding their first tournament to go overboard to make sure it is a great experience for everyone involved, but especially for the players. As they say, you only get one chance to make a first impression.

I do hope they get past this and are successful. We have a few nice rooms around the area, but another one is always a good thing.

Steve

 

[btoneill]

Exactly! Many of you should feel ashamed for bad mouthing this gentleman's business on just the thoughts of 1 individual. I think it was in very poor taste to come on here and name names the way he did. He could of told the story without mentioning the room name or the owners name if he just wanted opinions.

Have you been living in a cave? This is AZB... If you don't say the name of the hall/tour/person/etc you get flamed for not doing so as someone may assume you were talking about a different tournament/person/etc. Also as Art has been in the business a while, people may be able to tell me specifically if it's in or out of character for him. And I will mention that I have received private messages from people who dealt with him in NYC and had similar feelings afterwards. They didn't post on the thread as they didn't want to get into a flame war.

I had no problem practicing for free all weekend...neither did anyone else.

I have the receipt to show you as proof. So yes people had trouble practicing for free.

So what...his bartender was late, he hasn't tinted the last couple windows yet

As I said, those were just annoyances. If those were the issues I wouldn't have written a thing.

he was late for his match while trying to run a shorthanded business with the place absolutely slammed

Yes, he was trying to run his business. My question wasn't about if he should have been doing that. It was do you run your business first and foremost or do you put your ego (ie. playing in the tournament) above running the place? IMHO he did the later.

1 guy complains about $5. Thats grounds to try and ruin the man? I think not.

Read it again. The complaint had nothing to do with $5. I made a point that I didn't care about the money. The point was the way they treated me when I tried to explain that I was told I didn't have to pay for practice on that table.

Art has been first class to everyone else. For months before the joint opened he went around to many rooms handing out stacks of play for free cards to all that wanted them.

That's first class? To everyone? Are the owners of other rooms not part of everyone? I wonder how Art would feel if rival pool rooms started handing out cards for free pool to players who walked into his place? If that is "first class" sign me up for coach because I don't want to be there. I thought you were trying to stand up for him, not dig his hole deeper.

This Brian O'Neill even called his home room a "dive". I'm sure John the owner would be thrilled about that....at least he didn't mention that rooms name. Give me a break.

John knows that I call his room a "dive" and he knows I call it that because I love "dives". I also know that John reads AZ on a regular basis and would more than likely see this thread at some point. "Dives" have character and history and I think most people on here understand that. The reason I didn't mention the Greenroom specifically in the thread is I didn't want people saying I was pushing an agenda to play there instead of Paradise.

Brian

 

[btoneill]

On the subject of the owner, Arthur, he is a very nice man. In his defense, I think that he and the staff were not prepared for the number of people that attended the event. Well, I know they weren't. He said he learned alot and would know what to do the next time we were there. They were not schooled on how the tournament tables should have been distributed. This is a new business and again they haven't had a tournament there before.

So he underestimated the ability of GSBT to properly market... For someone who described himself on AZ as "League Director at Corner Billiards for 8 years" I would think he would know what is expected at a tour stop and how to properly distribute tables. This is someone who has spent years working at pool halls.

I do want to once again say I had no issue with GSBT. I didn't mention anything to you because you guys were pretty swamped with trying to keep things going. To be honest, if he had apologized to me when we played I would have been happy.

Brian

 

[worldison2]

To be honest, if he had apologized to me when we played I would have been happy.

Brian

So since you didn't get your apology, you decided to smear his business on an international forum? Nice try, but after reading this thread I think you are a punk.

 

[btoneill]

So since you didn't get your apology, you decided to smear his business on an international forum? Nice try, but after reading this thread I think you are a punk.

The world of business is about customer relations. As the owner of a bar he should know this. An apology goes a long way in customer relations.

You should also make sure you are using the proper worlds:
Definition: Smear - a usually unsubstantiated charge or accusation against a person or organization

I have the receipt to prove he charged me for table time. The people who run GSBT are the ones who told me that he was out getting food for the bar when his match was up. I seriously doubt they would deny it. There is _nothing_ unsubstantiated in my post except for what I clearly listed as "rumor". If I was on a smear campaign there are a lot of other things I could bring up that I have since heard 2nd hand. But I have not, as they were not witnessed by me.

This was my honest account of horrid customer service by someone who should know better. I never once told anyone not go to there. People on AZ talk about their bad experiences with bars, players, cue builders, etc. Do you red rep every person who complains about their dealings with a cue maker? Another player? A tour? If so, you must be the leader on the boards of red rep.

I personally don't make decisions on where I'm going to spend my money based on a single persons experience, and neither should anyone else. But, a combined number of people with bad experiences will sway my decision. I'm the first on AZ to complain about this place. Maybe I'll be the last, maybe I'll be the first of many, I don't know. Maybe others will say "I had a similar issue" and not be afraid to because someone else said it first and they know they aren't alone.

I'm a single "unknown" individual on the internet who wrote his experiences. If that is enough to ruins someones business every damn place of business in the world is going out of business.

Brian

 

[Ironman317]

So since you didn't get your apology, you decided to smear his business on an international forum? Nice try, but after reading this thread I think you are a punk.

you have obviously never owned your own business. i do own my own business and i know without customers, i would be closed. therefore, i strive to take care of my customers any way i can to ensure they become repeat customers. tough typing and calling someone a punk on the internet is both cowardly and childish by the way.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

What I would like to see:

Maybe someone local to the room could ask Art to join the forum and this discussion.

This would accomplish two things. First, he could see the impact this occurance could have on his business and Second, it could hold out an opportunity for him to improve.

Everyone I know has lost places to play local to them. Regardless of how much you like or dislike a room.....do you really only want one choice?

Someone should work on helping correct this so there is a future for his room and a place the locals can enjoy.

Dave



PS, cut btoniell some slack. he is the messanger only.

 

[Sweet Marissa]

I've never payed to practise on a table before a tournament. That's ridiculous. Also, if the room owner trusts his staff so freakin much, he should have let them go get food for the pool hall. Should have been disqualified!

As a side note, Shannon and Marge rock.

 

[worldison2]

you have obviously never owned your own business. i do own my own business and i know without customers, i would be closed. therefore, i strive to take care of my customers any way i can to ensure they become repeat customers. tough typing and calling someone a punk on the internet is both cowardly and childish by the way.

Nice assumption, Ironman, but we all know what happens when you assume.....

I have my own business, and I know the value of a customer, but I also know when a customer becomes more of a liability than he is worth.
And if Icould call this guy a punk to his face, I would, but since HE started this crap on the internet, that's the only place I have to call him on it.
If you think I'm a coward for this, arrange a face-to-face meeting between me and him and I'll call him a punk then.'
By the way....what business do you own?

 

[Ironman317]

Nice assumption, Ironman, but we all know what happens when you assume.....

I have my own business, and I know the value of a customer, but I also know when a customer becomes more of a liability than he is worth.
And if Icould call this guy a punk to his face, I would, but since HE started this crap on the internet, that's the only place I have to call him on it.
If you think I'm a coward for this, arrange a face-to-face meeting between me and him and I'll call him a punk then.'
By the way....what business do you own?

i am a chiropractor. i guess i should say i have clients instead of customers. but, they are what keeps me in business, so i go out of my way for them.

 

[Varney Cues]

What I would like to see:

Maybe someone local to the room could ask Art to join the forum and this discussion.

This would accomplish two things. First, he could see the impact this occurance could have on his business and Second, it could hold out an opportunity for him to improve.

Everyone I know has lost places to play local to them. Regardless of how much you like or dislike a room.....do you really only want one choice?

Someone should work on helping correct this so there is a future for his room and a place the locals can enjoy.

Dave



PS, cut btoniell some slack. he is the messanger only.

Done. I am waiting on him to contact me now.

 

[btoneill]

And if Icould call this guy a punk to his face, I would, but since HE started this crap on the internet, that's the only place I have to call him on it.

For the record, I have no issue with being called a punk. After all I called someone an ass. Everyone has their opinions and they will never all agree. I even asked specifically for people's opinions, so the most hypocritical thing I could do is complain about being called a name.

I walked into the kitchen, I'm not going to complain about the heat....