One-Pocket Strategy Question

[BillPorter]

An amusing thought occurred to me - What would Efren do?

What's amusing about asking what Efren would do? Why can't we just look at some Accu-Stats videos of Efren's one-pocket matches to see how he plays the two frozen balls when he needs one to win? It's because, as Dick said, that situation would almost never come up unless Efren had hung his game ball and his opponent made it in Efren's pocket and followed it in (or jumped the table with the cue ball). Now ask yourself, how often have you seen, live or on a video, Efren hang his game ball?!? I'm sure it must have happened, but only in a vanishingly small percentage of his games and may have never been captured on video.

 

[jay helfert]

I've never seen this shot successfully executed, although I will fool around with it this afternoon. Being one of the weaker players Billy was mentioning I would still be reluctant to leave both balls in play.
Rod.
PS; hope I can master it.

It's not that hard to shoot. Kind of like the One Pocket break shot where you hit the head ball very thin. Just try it a few times and see how you like it. Once you get the hang of it, you may like it. I can execute it successfully about four out of five times with no problem. I agree with Billy though, that this shot is best if you are the one needing both balls. I guess that's usually me.

 

[androd]

Dick, actually banking the second ball toward your hole is not all that bad, especially if you have confidence in your ability to hit that type of shot. The two rail scratch is probably the riskiest part of that shot. But even if you do scratch the penalty ball will be spotted behind the ball that is left on the spot then both players will need two. And just perhaps the ball that you banked toward your hole may even hang. I know you're not that lucky, right?

I shoot this shot a lot if I need 2, if you don't draw the CB (just spin) you'll end up near the opposite side, with good shape if you make it, but often leave a bank if you don't get close.

 

[wincardona]

your preference.

Billy, if I am playing Scott, I know I have to go for a win on this turn at the table because I'm very unlikely to prevail in a safety battle with him. So I'd try to two rail the back ball by shooting 8-10 inches left of the head spot and striking the front ball a bit left of center with low right English and a hard draw stroke. This give both balls a chance to go, but I have made the two railer on the back ball more often that I've sent the spotted ball directly into the pocket.

Bill, which ever shot you're more comfortable with is the shot I would shoot, but I would definetly shoot to win playing Scott. Like I mentioned in post #37 it's not a bad shot, especially if you have the confidence to shoot that type of shot. By all means go for it if you like it, and you will win more often than you will lose. If you play safe from that position playing Scott you may not be the favorite. I hope I helped you, not because I don't like Scott, which I happen to like him quite a bit, but just to assure you that you are playing the game correctly is why I gave you my opinion. But then again there are a lot of opinions out there that you should consider.

 

[wincardona]

My bad

Bill, which ever shot you're more comfortable with is the shot I would shoot, but I would definetly shoot to win playing Scott. Like I mentioned in post #37 it's not a bad shot, especially if you have the confidence to shoot that type of shot. By all means go for it if you like it, and you will win more often than you will lose. If you play safe from that position playing Scott you may not be the favorite. I hope I helped you, not because I don't like Scott, which I happen to like him quite a bit, but just to assure you that you are playing the game correctly is why I gave you my opinion. But then again there are a lot of opinions out there that you should consider.

Sorry Bill i misunderstood your selection of shots on you're request, but nevertheless it's what ever shot your more comfortable with. I personally like the the shot playing both balls, i've had tremendous results with that shot.

 

[SJDinPHX]

Stop the presses #3 !!!

I shoot this shot a lot if I need 2, if you don't draw the CB (just spin) you'll end up near the opposite side, with good shape if you make it, but often leave a bank if you don't get close.

I have shot this shot many times, and even the TV shot a few times, but the bottom line is.... with me needing only one ball I have always had enough confidence in my moving skill to outmanuver my opponent before he can get two, by moving at least one ball uptable.
Where is the argument here ? It's one pocket 101.
And Bill Porter, yes, if you're playing Scott Frost, you need to shoot to win every time you get to the table, which may not be often.
Dick

 

[androd]

You know, i have to say.
I have selected, and always will continue to select the "hit it with draw and make the headball into the hole scenario"

I first watched Jimmy Fusco execute this shot, and i have shot it ever since.

It's just like any other shot that you come across.
If you practice it, and if you know the proper angle to place the cue ball, and you know the speed of the table, etc etc. It basically FLIES towards the hole when done properly.

I think in the grand scheme of things, this shot has won me WAY more games, then it has lost me.

Plus, given that whole i need 1 and they need 2 scenario, if you know what your doing, your basically taking the head ball out of play if you miss it because it is going to be hanging out right in front of the hole, or right next to it.
When done properly, the cue ball gets drawn to the head of the table anyway, and the ball that was underneath the spot ball, 2 rails, and sometimes when the spot ball misses the hole, the bottom ball 2 rails and craps in anyway.
Either way, unless your a total idiot, if you practice it enough times to know, your chances of selling out are minimal, and then the odds of you selling out BOTH balls, is almost next to impossible.

One ball, maybe, but both balls, you have to have hit it at warp speed, or like a retard, and in that case, you deserve to lose the game.

The only way that i choose not to shoot this shot for the win is if for whatever reason, the spot has a HUGE crater/divot in it from people pounding the head ball into place.

If the crater is severe enough, then i would opt for banking the second ball 1 rails and cross corner.

The only reason i would just flat out duck, and shoot the balls away, is if i am in the tank and getting pounded on, in which case, i'm not going to execute anything well to begin with, and if somehow, knocking them away adds extra high hopes to the situation, and can somehow extract an extra game out of my opponent.

Otherwise, i will shoot for the win when given this situation.

The only other shot is this, if you know how to shoot it.
I don't use it as much because you need a certain type of rail characteristic.

Just load it up with inside, slightly high, and let her rip.
PRACTICE IT so you understand the hit so you don't sell the farm on each try.
And unlike the head ball draw shot, this is more of a move then an actual attempt to pocket the ball, but the ball has been known to fly in 2 rails or hang in the hole.

CueTable Help

This is the way C.Joiner always shot this shot against me, it's very tricky to beat the CB kiss on the third rail (with the head OB )but if you figure where to put the CB you will get the back ball very close or make it, as he did many times. I could never get comfortable with the shot.
PS; I first saw McDonald shoot this shot in the early 60's.

 

[wincardona]

I shoot this shot a lot if I need 2, if you don't draw the CB (just spin) you'll end up near the opposite side, with good shape if you make it, but often leave a bank if you don't get close.

Rodney, I understand the the risk and rewards of shooting this shot the way you choose to shoot it, but if I need one I would draw the cue ball, resulting in a more safe position for my opponent to deal with,providing I miss the bank. But in reference to the way you play this shot needing two balls, you know the good and the bad things that can happen to and against you shooting this shot your way. The only thing I can suggest is hit it better. Good luck.

 

[androd]

Rodney, I understand the the risk and rewards of shooting this shot the way you choose to shoot it, but if I need one I would draw the cue ball, resulting in a more safe position for my opponent to deal with,providing I miss the bank. But in reference to the way you play this shot needing two balls, you know the good and the bad things that can happen to and against you shooting this shot your way. The only thing I can suggest is hit it better. Good luck.

A lot depends on whether I'm getting 10-6 or giving it.
thanks.
Rod
PS; Don't know if you remember me ?. We played 10 ball in Sammy Jones' pool room(Ye Olde Billard Parlor) in San Antonio in the early 80's.

 

[wincardona]

I appologize, I think.

Billy,

Don't make me feel like a dinosaur. Nobody played any more aggressive style of play than I did in my prime.
As we (emphasis on "we") get older, the right shot is often the wrong one.
You missed my edit. You are getting into players of various skill levels
In all of my scenarios and touting, I try to envision two top level players competing at their best.
All my input is based on that assumption.
If your playing Scott Frost, obviously thats not an even game, right ? Gotcha :thumbup:

Dick

Sorry Dick, I misinterpreted your post #32 when you said against anybody. :scratchhead::scratchhead:

 

[wincardona]

Sorry Dick, I misinterpreted your post #32 when you said against anybody. :scratchhead::scratchhead:

Dick, you have always been and I have always cosidered you as one of the best one pocket players that has ever lived. You were at one time one of the most aggressive players there ever was, and executed that style as good as anyone.I do enjoy debating positions with you because I seem to always walk away with a better undersanding of situations. Also you have always had the uderstanding of how to move in any situation, another reason why I value your opinion over just about anyones. My bad.

 

[wincardona]

A lot depends on whether I'm getting 10-6 or giving it.
thanks.
Rod
PS; Don't know if you remember me ?. We played 10 ball in Sammy Jones' pool room(Ye Olde Billard Parlor) in San Antonio in the early 80's.

Yes I do remember you, you were a good short stop player with a lot of gamble that was hard to get down. But if you were fortunate to get down with you and win , you could really win something.I remaember playing you, we didn't play long and I don't remember winning. Maybe we can play some more in the future,but not 10 ball. Any ways I enjoy your input in our discussions.

 

[Alex Kanapilly]

I think passing up on something offensive here is just way too nitty against most players.
FWIW I shoot this and feel pretty comfortable shooting it.

CueTable Help

I shoot this shot too. What can I say, I'm a sucker for an offensive shot. Sometimes though, I scratch two rails up table.

 

[androd]

Yes I do remember you, you were a good short stop player with a lot of gamble that was hard to get down. But if you were fortunate to get down with you and win , you could really win something.I remaember playing you, we didn't play long and I don't remember winning. Maybe we can play some more in the future,but not 10 ball. Any ways I enjoy your input in our discussions.

I would guess that you and I and SJD's 9 and 10 ball are behind us. I enjoy reading your input on the forums as well, as I respect your skill and knowledge very much.
Rod.

 

[dabarbr]

What has worked for me when needing one and I don't want to get crazy is to hit the five ball on the left and take the cue ball forward to the short rail and as close to it as possible.
This moves the five ball to the right a short distance and the twelve will come off the back rail and position itself between the cue ball and the five.

This allows them to only see the twelve and with only the top part of the cue ball to play with. This makes it very difficult for them to execute a shot without giving up something.

 

[manwon]

You know, i have to say.
I have selected, and always will continue to select the "hit it with draw and make the headball into the hole scenario"

I first watched Jimmy Fusco execute this shot, and i have shot it ever since.

It's just like any other shot that you come across.
If you practice it, and if you know the proper angle to place the cue ball, and you know the speed of the table, etc etc. It basically FLIES towards the hole when done properly.

I think in the grand scheme of things, this shot has won me WAY more games, then it has lost me.



You know, i have to say.
I have selected, and always will continue to select the "hit it with draw and make the headball into the hole scenario"

I first watched Jimmy Fusco execute this shot, and i have shot it ever since.

It's just like any other shot that you come across.
If you practice it, and if you know the proper angle to place the cue ball, and you know the speed of the table, etc etc. It basically FLIES towards the hole when done properly.

I hope we meet some day, and that you like to gamble, because I will set that shot up for you all day and let you shoot it for $20 a shot, and I guaranty to freeze up at least $1000.

Oh and by the way, I will spot the balls!!!!!!!

 

[manwon]

You know, i have to say.
I have selected, and always will continue to select the "hit it with draw and make the headball into the hole scenario"

I first watched Jimmy Fusco execute this shot, and i have shot it ever since.

It's just like any other shot that you come across.
If you practice it, and if you know the proper angle to place the cue ball, and you know the speed of the table, etc etc. It basically FLIES towards the hole when done properly.

I think in the grand scheme of things, this shot has won me WAY more games, then it has lost me.

Plus, given that whole i need 1 and they need 2 scenario, if you know what your doing, your basically taking the head ball out of play if you miss it because it is going to be hanging out right in front of the hole, or right next to it.
When done properly, the cue ball gets drawn to the head of the table anyway, and the ball that was underneath the spot ball, 2 rails, and sometimes when the spot ball misses the hole, the bottom ball 2 rails and craps in anyway.
Either way, unless your a total idiot, if you practice it enough times to know, your chances of selling out are minimal, and then the odds of you selling out BOTH balls, is almost next to impossible.

One ball, maybe, but both balls, you have to have hit it at warp speed, or like a retard, and in that case, you deserve to lose the game.

The only way that i choose not to shoot this shot for the win is if for whatever reason, the spot has a HUGE crater/divot in it from people pounding the head ball into place.

If the crater is severe enough, then i would opt for banking the second ball 1 rails and cross corner.

The only reason i would just flat out duck, and shoot the balls away, is if i am in the tank and getting pounded on, in which case, i'm not going to execute anything well to begin with, and if somehow, knocking them away adds extra high hopes to the situation, and can somehow extract an extra game out of my opponent.

Otherwise, i will shoot for the win when given this situation.

The only other shot is this, if you know how to shoot it.
I don't use it as much because you need a certain type of rail characteristic.

Just load it up with inside, slightly high, and let her rip.
PRACTICE IT so you understand the hit so you don't sell the farm on each try.
And unlike the head ball draw shot, this is more of a move then an actual attempt to pocket the ball, but the ball has been known to fly in 2 rails or hang in the hole.



You know, i have to say.
I have selected, and always will continue to select the "hit it with draw and make the headball into the hole scenario"

I first watched Jimmy Fusco execute this shot, and i have shot it ever since.

It's just like any other shot that you come across.
If you practice it, and if you know the proper angle to place the cue ball, and you know the speed of the table, etc etc. It basically FLIES towards the hole when done properly.






I hope we meet some day, and that you like to gamble, because I will set that shot up for you all day and let you shoot it for $20 a shot, and I guaranty to freeze up at least $1000.

Oh and by the way, I will spot the balls!!!!!!!

 

[SUPERSTAR]

How about this.

We can play 50 games at $20 a pop where i need 1 and you need 2 where the balls are spotted up like that, and i have ball in hand.

And with me TAKING that headball shot, we'll see how many games you win from there.
Fare enough?
Sound good to you?

There is nothing being said that it is guaranteed to go in the hole.
But, your obviously taking it like that, when it's not what i said.
so i guess, by the way your reacting, that you really suck at this shot, and therefore, are one of the skeptics.
Oh well. Not my fault you can't make it go in.

But the offer still stands.
50 games at 20 a pop with me needing one and you needing 2 and you can bet what you like!

 

[Alex Kanapilly]

How about this...
50 games at 20 a pop with me needing one and you needing 2 and you can bet what you like!

Uh... I thought 20 a game, 50 times in a row was the bet? Ok, ducking out of the way now.:embarrassed2: <--- edit

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Uh... I thought 20 a game, 50 times in a row was the bet? Ok, ducking out of the way now.

That's what he wants, as he somehow thinks i said that i can somehow make it like a spot shot every time, when all i said that if you know what your doing, it goes right at the hole. I didn't say it goes IN the hole every time.

All i said was that given the situation, i would shoot it for the win if i have the chance.

So, sticking to that, the shooting in a rowas he suggested, and you either make it or don't is just flat out ludicrous. But if he wants to give me say, 10 tries to make it in for each $20, and if i don't do it in that time, then he wins that particular $20, then i am not apposed to something like that either.

But you'd have to be the worlds stupidest gambler to try and take the bet trying to make it every time.

I am NOT a bad gambler, and thus realize the absurdity of his proposal.

When he sees that the actual situation under which the shot is being taken is what i would like to bet on, I'm pretty sure that he will realize that he's got the worst of it.
But if he doesn't, I'm not apposed to easy money.

The bet what you like is the "you can't win this bet" clue that he really doesn't have to stop it at $1000