A question about jumping.

Z

Zippy371

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm looking for a few opinions. I've always been a good jumper, my feeling is that the phenolic and resin tips available now should not be a part of the game. The reason is that jumping with a leather tip is a skill, and the new phenolic and resin tips take that away. Anyone can jump now without really learning how. It's really just like hitting a ball with a bat. I admit that I use a white diamond resin tip because hey, it's got to be a level playing field. But I would rather get rid of them and make people jump with a leather tip to bring the skill factor back. Just wondering if anyone else feels this way.

Thanks for the replies in advance.
Jason
 
Zippy371 said:
I'm looking for a few opinions. I've always been a good jumper, my feeling is that the phenolic and resin tips available now should not be a part of the game. The reason is that jumping with a leather tip is a skill, and the new phenolic and resin tips take that away. Anyone can jump now without really learning how. It's really just like hitting a ball with a bat. I admit that I use a white diamond resin tip because hey, it's got to be a level playing field. But I would rather get rid of them and make people jump with a leather tip to bring the skill factor back. Just wondering if anyone else feels this way.

Thanks for the replies in advance.
Jason
Click to expand...

i've read threads like this a few times. but what do you mean really? are you talking tournaments only? or do you mean when people're gambling as well
 
Trust me - we won't get much support with this but I 100% agree with you. I can jump really well with my playing cue (with a triangle tip). Jumping with phenolic is a joke. The hardest part of jumping with a phenolic tip is not jumping the ball off the table--- the skill resides in "pulling back" and easing the jump into position.

Anyways - I agree. Jump with what you play with and eliminate phenolic - that'd be a level playing field as far as skill goes. HOWEVER...

that'll never happen and those who agree with you buy phenolic because no one wants to be a martyr to some nit who has 3 jump cues in their case.

We should just make all jumps illegal and force everyone to kick. Then, we'll see who's "good."

Just my 1-bottle-of-wine-buzzed-up-opinion.

Dave
 
Last edited:
Hey Zippy great to see another Masshole on here!

You're going to get opinions all over the spectrum on this forum as far as equipment goes. Personally, I don't think it should matter so long as everyone has equal access to equipment. Whether or not that equipment makes inferior players better doesn't matter to me. If you really want to take that argument and apply it to a more extreme example, if we didn't have lathes, who could compete with the likes of Efren and his $11 bowling alley stick? Naturals like him could probably beat anyone if we lacked the technology to do more than whittle dowels out with knives.

IF someone isn't really learning how to perform a shot properly, then their equipment is really just masking their errors and it's going to bite them in the butt in the future. And to that extent, if you've tried some of the newly processed leather tips out there, it really isn't all that different. I just went from a Fury J/B with a phenolic tip to a Samsara with the proprietary 9 layer leather. Switching hasn't really affected my jumped at all, except for jumping with english, in which case the leather actually HELPS me.

Just my $0.02!

-Alan
 
In tournaments

poolplayer2093 said:
i've read threads like this a few times. but what do you mean really? are you talking tournaments only? or do you mean when people're gambling as well
Click to expand...

You can agree to whatever you want while matching up, to use them or not. I'm not trying to pass judgement, just curious what others think.

Just my .02
Thanks
Jason
 
SupaFoo said:
Hey Zippy great to see another Masshole on here!

You're going to get opinions all over the spectrum on this forum as far as equipment goes. Personally, I don't think it should matter so long as everyone has equal access to equipment. Whether or not that equipment makes inferior players better doesn't matter to me. If you really want to take that argument and apply it to a more extreme example, if we didn't have lathes, who could compete with the likes of Efren and his $11 bowling alley stick? Naturals like him could probably beat anyone if we lacked the technology to do more than whittle dowels out with knives.

IF someone isn't really learning how to perform a shot properly, then their equipment is really just masking their errors and it's going to bite them in the butt in the future. And to that extent, if you've tried some of the newly processed leather tips out there, it really isn't all that different. I just went from a Fury J/B with a phenolic tip to a Samsara with the proprietary 9 layer leather. Switching hasn't really affected my jumped at all, except for jumping with english, in which case the leather actually HELPS me.

Just my $0.02!

-Alan
Click to expand...

You're right - everyone has the same access to equipment. It's like everyone having access to a 7 footer when they can't make a long shot on a 9-footer. My only problem is that the equipment is an equalizer. It's no different that 20000cc drivers in golf that look like sledgehammers - you can't possibly mishit the ball. Or, here's a GOOD example.... you guys remember the ALIEN sandwedge on those infomercials that GUARANTEED you'd get out of the sand (the club with the slots cut through the face of the club)??? I equate shorty-phenolic jump cues to ALIEN sandwedges:

- Everyone can buy them
- They GUARANTEE you're jumping the ball (it's a joooooooooke)

Is it right or ok because it's equal access? nah

Honestly, the ONLY reason I'm somewhat complacent is that it provides a living for many people in the pool industry--- and that makes it ok with me. Doesn't mean I agree with it. I'm complacent.
 
Zippy371 said:
I'm looking for a few opinions. I've always been a good jumper, my feeling is that the phenolic and resin tips available now should not be a part of the game. The reason is that jumping with a leather tip is a skill, and the new phenolic and resin tips take that away. Anyone can jump now without really learning how. It's really just like hitting a ball with a bat. I admit that I use a white diamond resin tip because hey, it's got to be a level playing field. But I would rather get rid of them and make people jump with a leather tip to bring the skill factor back. Just wondering if anyone else feels this way.

Thanks for the replies in advance.
Jason
Click to expand...

Reply #1: This topic has been beaten to death with the opinion of most being that the tip does not do the work the shooter is the one dong the jumping. Does your leather tip add spin to the cueball? Does it draw? No. All it does is go where you strike the cueball and the result is due to your skill. Same with a jump cue. The hard jump tip only makes it possible to jump just as a chalked leather tip makes it possible to spin the cue ball. Thus the field IS level for all players.

Reply#2: The jump cue ALLOWS your skill to shine. Because you are NOT HAMPERED by UNSUITABLE equipment for the shot you are able to perform a much wider range of jump shots and if you are highly skilled then you have a greater range of shots at your disposal. A lesser skilled player using a jump cue is going to sell out more and be less successful than a highly skilled person.

Reply#3: Please use the search function to see what conversations have come up previously on this topic. It's better to add your opinion to one of those rather than to start a new thread on the same subject.
 
Me and Spidey don't usually disagree but this is one time. Spidey, don't you think back in the day before the leather tip and chalk were invented for cues there were people who were great players? Maybe those same great players HATED it that an APA2 with a CHALKED TIP suddenly could do things that they couldn't using their old equipment.

But hand the chalked tip to the best player and he suddenly can do much more than the APA2 could ever dream of.

This is the same with the jump cue. It IS a joke to jump with one, that is the WHOLE reason that they were invented. The skill lies in CONTROLLING the shot just as it does when using a chalked tip for normal shots. Any idiot can hit the cueball with tons of spin because of the chalked tip. Any idiot can use a diamond system to hit a three rail kick shot. And any idiot with a half decent stroke can make a ball hop over another one using a jump cue. But it takes skilled players to do any of those things consistently and precisely in just the right way for any given situation. That skill NEVER comes from the equipment being used.
 
Personally, I agree with spider and would like to see everyone just have to kick at the balls. The game would be better. But, I also agree that will never happen.

The only material that I think should be outlawed is the G-10. G-10 is a fiberglass based phenolic that is not only harder than the cue ball, but it's tiny glass fiber penetrate the surface of the cue ball every time you hit it. These things damage balls so they should not be allowed.

Since we won't get rid of jumping, and everyone can get over interfering ball now, the next step is to see who can actually play an offensive shot. Instead of just "not giving up ball in hand", can you make the ball and run out? Or play a solid safe back on your opponent? I believe that is the next level to be explored with the jump cues and jump shots.


Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
I get the feeling you want them banned because, in your words, "you've always been a good jumper". Prolly drives you nuts that someone who isn't a good jumper can jump as easily as you. But why worry about what other people can do (easily or not)? You need only concern yourself with your own abilities.

Somewhere out there, there's a 14 year old who can draw the ball better with an umbrella than I can with my playing cue. The only reason I can even come close to his draw ability is I have a decent stick with a decent tip. With an umbrella, I'd be screwed trying to outdraw this kid.

But somehow he has the good grace not to ask that I use an umbrella for the rest of my pool career just to make sure I don't someday show him up... even though that's never gonna happen and even though champions aren't made from draw distance alone.
 
Jumping

I agree with Royce, how precise can you be with a jump cue. It is also forcing all players to play better safeties to begin with. Someone that is really good with a jump cue is amazing to watch, IMO.

Most players just hit the object ball if it is not sitting in front of the pocket like a duck. If I do not think I can actually make the jump shot, and would end up selling out, I kick at the ball to allow myself a better chance to get a leave.

I remember when players started jumping with a regular playing cue, they were accused of cheating then too, but in actuality, it adds a whole another dimension to Pool.
 
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