Simonis 860HR testimonials???

ykndoit

ykndoit

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I have read a few threads about 860HR and peoples thoughts on it. I was wondering if there are any new thoughts on it as I am about to recover my table with 860 or the 860HR.

My 7' Diamond has regular 860 on it at the moment but seems slow compared to ones at a local pool hall(Big Dog Billiards). I recently replaced the rails w/ black diamond rubber and new cloth.

My bed cloth has a ton of burn marks on it and the chalk doesn't come out of it like it should w/ a damp cloth or a vacuum.

I think I'd like the wear of the 860HR but will it be that much faster than regular 860?

Has anyone played on it enough to give a true testimony about the durability,playability, and lookability(is that a word???)?
 
ykndoit said:
I have read a few threads about 860HR and peoples thoughts on it. I was wondering if there are any new thoughts on it as I am about to recover my table with 860 or the 860HR.

My 7' Diamond has regular 860 on it at the moment but seems slow compared to ones at a local pool hall(Big Dog Billiards). I recently replaced the rails w/ black diamond rubber and new cloth.

My bed cloth has a ton of burn marks on it and the chalk doesn't come out of it like it should w/ a damp cloth or a vacuum.

I think I'd like the wear of the 860HR but will it be that much faster than regular 860?

Has anyone played on it enough to give a true testimony about the durability,playability, and lookability(is that a word???)?
Click to expand...


Well I can tell you that I also Have regular 860 and have the same thing but my cloth wasn't nearly streched to what It should have been but one thing I've used on my table was Quick Clean for Billiard cloths and It works great .

After I use it almost all ball burn marks come off , it all depend on how you care for your cloth , are you lazy when it comes to cleaning ? or do you clean it on a regular basis .
 
ykndoit said:
I have read a few threads about 860HR and peoples thoughts on it. I was wondering if there are any new thoughts on it as I am about to recover my table with 860 or the 860HR.

My 7' Diamond has regular 860 on it at the moment but seems slow compared to ones at a local pool hall(Big Dog Billiards). I recently replaced the rails w/ black diamond rubber and new cloth.

My bed cloth has a ton of burn marks on it and the chalk doesn't come out of it like it should w/ a damp cloth or a vacuum.

I think I'd like the wear of the 860HR but will it be that much faster than regular 860?

Has anyone played on it enough to give a true testimony about the durability,playability, and lookability(is that a word???)?
Click to expand...

If it means anything, the BCA has switched ALL it's Diamond 7ft's over to 860HR;)
 
I have had the HR now for a few months and the table gets a lot of play and it is much cleaner than the original Simonis. While there are still burn marks, they are less frequent.
 
realkingcobra said:
If it means anything, the BCA has switched ALL it's Diamond 7ft's over to 860HR;)
Click to expand...

Very interesting. During this years SBE, I spoke at length with the Simonis sales representative. He told me 860HR was discontinued a couple of years ago. What's the story. Did Diamond buy out the remaining stock?

Our pool room is located in the basement of a plaza. Very humid during the summer. They switched from 860 to 860 HR on the GC III's several years ago. The tables did play faster. Two years ago the tables were recovered with 760. Much quicker. This year, the room owner recovered the tables with 860 again. It will be interesting to see how the tables play during the summer:shocked2:.

Lyn
 
I have one of the new 9' pro tables with the HR cloth on it. I really don't see where it is any faster but where the burn marks where the brake line's are have turned green. I spoke with Ivan at the SBE and sent him some pictures. He was going to talk with his people and get back with me but i have not herd anything as of yet. I use the reg 860 at the pool room i do work for (Tour. Blue) and it does not seem to be much difference to me. I will be in Vegas next month for the BCA and i hope Ivan will know something and let me know there
 
cardiac kid said:
Very interesting. During this years SBE, I spoke at length with the Simonis sales representative. He told me 860HR was discontinued a couple of years ago. What's the story. Did Diamond buy out the remaining stock?

Our pool room is located in the basement of a plaza. Very humid during the summer. They switched from 860 to 860 HR on the GC III's several years ago. The tables did play faster. Two years ago the tables were recovered with 760. Much quicker. This year, the room owner recovered the tables with 860 again. It will be interesting to see how the tables play during the summer:shocked2:.

Lyn
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No, Simonis didn't discontinue the 860HR, it's been widely used in Europe for the last 20 years or so, even up today. Diamond had nothing to do with the reintroduction of the 860HR to the US, we (Simonis) decided to play around with it a little bit by changing the shearing (shaving) process and reintroduce the 860HR back into the US market place more as a bar table cloth than anything else. IMO...I hate saying that:D it plays with the same speed as normal 860. The main difference between 860 and 860HR is the wool/nylon blend, 860 has 90% wool, 10% nylon, and the 860HR has 70% wool, and 30% nylon. The problem we had before with the 860HR is the same problem with the 760 Simonis I introduced to the Pacific Northwest over 20 years ago, and that's the ball marking cosmetic look of the playing surface of the cloth when it has a 30% blend of nylon. By changing the shaving process of the cloth in the finishing of it, we're not shaving the exposed ends of the fibers as close to the weave of the cloth as is done with the normal 860 finishing process. The reason for this, is because by leaving a little more of the exposed ends of the fiber ends sticking up, you have more of a wool finish protection against the 30% nylon in the weave from showing the ball burnishing normally associated with Simonis cloth. If you had 2 tables side by side, one with normal 860 and the second with 860HR, the only way I can describe the difference between the two, is that the 860HR cloth finish feels harder than the normal 860, whereas it feels more soft or silky.

I like the 860HR in the tour blue for the new cosmetic durability of the cloth, and because the dye of the cloth has been worked out to resist the fading which has been the normal in the past of the tour blue. Now, it's NOT going to fade anymore, which is a great thing, because it's really the best cloth to shoot pool on, as it gives you the best contrast between the cloth and the balls making it easier to see the balls, even if you don't have that great of lighting.

Glen
 
The place I play has bad Simonis 860 HR (tournament blue) for just over 3 months. The tables are 7' Diamonds. It still looks good, plays good and the speed is good. I found it very consistent even when newly installed. The rails seemed to have more natural angles and didn't slide n skid so much. I'm a believer!!
 
Glen,

It was my understanding the HR stood for humidity resistant. That was the way it was sold to us. Thanks for the straight scoop:thumbup:. I'm looking forward to next week. I love the playing conditions at the Riv.

Years ago, Gary covered some of the old Valley tables with Mercury. The original convention center at the Riv had the standard cloth and the new area was on the Mercury. Was that exciting! Incidentally, do you know what cloth was used at SBE this year on the small tables?

Lyn
 
metallicane said:
I have had the HR now for a few months and the table gets a lot of play and it is much cleaner than the original Simonis. While there are still burn marks, they are less frequent.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. I will add that the Tour Blue is indeed the best color option as well. Much easier on the eyes. Also the 860HR is indeed faster than standard 860. In fact its closer to 760 than 860 IMHO.
 
realkingcobra said:
it plays with the same speed as normal 860. The main difference between 860 and 860HR is the wool/nylon blend, 860 has 90% wool, 10% nylon, and the 860HR has 70% wool, and 30% nylon.

Glen
Click to expand...

Trusting your many years in the business, I guess I have been misinformed in the past. I was told yrs ago that in general, the higher the nylon content the faster the play, and the higher the wool content, conversely, the slower the play. It seems that's not necessarily so. What is the wool / nylon percentage in the 760?
 
cardiac kid said:
Glen,

It was my understanding the HR stood for humidity resistant. That was the way it was sold to us. Thanks for the straight scoop:thumbup:. I'm looking forward to next week. I love the playing conditions at the Riv.

Years ago, Gary covered some of the old Valley tables with Mercury. The original convention center at the Riv had the standard cloth and the new area was on the Mercury. Was that exciting! Incidentally, do you know what cloth was used at SBE this year on the small tables?

Lyn
Click to expand...


When was the SBE?
 
Duane Tuula said:
The place I play has bad Simonis 860 HR (tournament blue) for just over 3 months. The tables are 7' Diamonds. It still looks good, plays good and the speed is good. I found it very consistent even when newly installed. The rails seemed to have more natural angles and didn't slide n skid so much. I'm a believer!!
Click to expand...

Good observation Duane, I forgot to mention that the 860HR starts out playing like the normal 860 does after about 30 days or so.

Glen
 
3andstop said:
Trusting your many years in the business, I guess I have been misinformed in the past. I was told yrs ago that in general, the higher the nylon content the faster the play, and the higher the wool content, conversely, the slower the play. It seems that's not necessarily so. What is the wool / nylon percentage in the 760?
Click to expand...

The 760 is 70% wool, 30% nylon...but has a lower thread count per square inch when compared to 860, thus the faster speed...less ball contact to slow the balls down.

Glen
 
cardiac kid said:
Glen,

Super Billiards Expo was this past March from the 19th to the 22nd. Paul Smith and his crew set the event up.

Lyn
Click to expand...

OK, those tables had the normal 860 tour blue cloth on them. But the BCA and Diamond are switching over all the 7ft's to the HR cloth as they get recovered, so it's a slow process as they have soooooooooo many 7ft tables used in tournaments around the country:D

Glen
 
In my room I put the 860hr blue on the house table . It appears to have a little more slide even after four months of play . The table is an older diamond pro with the soft rails and deep pocket shelf. She can be a B%#@h . The extra slide helps its playability . I sold alot of phenolic break and jump cues which are verry hard on the cloth, every table has jump nicks except the Diamond . I will keep the blue on the house table and put the 860 hr green on the rest when i recover again. The normal burn marks do seem about the same . To all the dealers out there educate yourself on this new trend . I had difficulty buying it on the east coast, went right to simonis to get the proper service.
 
racefornine said:
In my room I put the 860hr blue on the house table . It appears to have a little more slide even after four months of play . The table is an older diamond pro with the soft rails and deep pocket shelf. She can be a B%#@h . The extra slide helps its playability . I sold alot of phenolic break and jump cues which are verry hard on the cloth, every table has jump nicks except the Diamond . I will keep the blue on the house table and put the 860 hr green on the rest when i recover again. The normal burn marks do seem about the same . To all the dealers out there educate yourself on this new trend . I had difficulty buying it on the east coast, went right to simonis to get the proper service.
Click to expand...

You're right about dealers not wanting to mention the HR cloth, as they want to sell the Simonis they already have first. I've been using the Simonis cloth for about 26 years now, and as far as I'm concerned, this grade of 860HR is the best cloth ever produced by Simonis....period;)

Glen
 
realkingcobra said:
You're right about dealers not wanting to mention the HR cloth, as they want to sell the Simonis they already have first. I've been using the Simonis cloth for about 26 years now, and as far as I'm concerned, this grade of 860HR is the best cloth ever produced by Simonis....period;)

Glen
Click to expand...

Thanks everyone for their inputs and thanks Glen for your knowledge. I'm guessing you work for Simonis?!? Next question is where would I go to get 860HR at a 'wholesale' price?:winknudge: :winknudge: The local pool hall owner has been out of town for a few weeks and I don't want to wait for him to get back to order through him.
 
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