How do you measure skill and progress?

J

JDP12

Registered
Hey all-

As I've been playing, I can't help thinking that I'm just not very good. I don't want this attitude because it can only negatively effect my game...

So I'm curious as to how you measure skill. I'm trying to get a video of me playing up on youtube but its not working right now so I'll just try and describe my game..

I've never run a rack, and on a normal rack of 15 balls I usually miss four times. The shots I miss are usually the same kind, long, all the way down the table shots. Like I said, its gonna be hard to judge me without seeing me play and I apologize for that.

But I'm just curious as to how you all measure skill and such... Obviously there's pro and stuff... But how do you define being good and such? Is there a way to really do so?

Thanks
 
Never give up

JDP12 said:
Hey all-

As I've been playing, I can't help thinking that I'm just not very good. I don't want this attitude because it can only negatively effect my game...

So I'm curious as to how you measure skill. I'm trying to get a video of me playing up on youtube but its not working right now so I'll just try and describe my game..

I've never run a rack, and on a normal rack of 15 balls I usually miss four times. The shots I miss are usually the same kind, long, all the way down the table shots. Like I said, its gonna be hard to judge me without seeing me play and I apologize for that.

But I'm just curious as to how you all measure skill and such... Obviously there's pro and stuff... But how do you define being good and such? Is there a way to really do so?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Never give up on your self. Keep practicing and you will get to that break ball to the next rack. You might want to check into contacts if you are missing long shots. Eye sight is so important, along with stance & stroke. You might want to try and take some lessons. Join a league. Play better players then you and you will learn. There are many in leagues and you will make friendships. You do not have to gamble. just be around pool.
Remember, if you can make every ball that you shoot at. Then the great Sport of Pool would not be any fun.
 
Yea normally I do wear contacts, but some days I wear my glasses just because I don't feel like putting in my contacts early in the morning.

But I'm just curious, how would you rate missing 4 shots/rack? To me that's awful... even though this is the best I've ever played so far.. but it still seems pathetic to me
 
JDP12 said:
Hey all-

As I've been playing, I can't help thinking that I'm just not very good. I don't want this attitude because it can only negatively effect my game...

So I'm curious as to how you measure skill. I'm trying to get a video of me playing up on youtube but its not working right now so I'll just try and describe my game..

I've never run a rack, and on a normal rack of 15 balls I usually miss four times. The shots I miss are usually the same kind, long, all the way down the table shots. Like I said, its gonna be hard to judge me without seeing me play and I apologize for that.

But I'm just curious as to how you all measure skill and such... Obviously there's pro and stuff... But how do you define being good and such? Is there a way to really do so?

Thanks
Click to expand...

How long have you been playing? Not including knocking the balls around with your buddies.

There is no such thing as a learning player who is awful, because they are learning. Players who I consider to be terrible are those who stagnate at low level and make no reasonable effort to improve. Operative word is reasonable, my definition may be different from theirs.

Good is very relative, you'll get a lot of differing opinions I think. Some people consider C players to be good and B level to be very good. There are others who only consider A players or shortstops to be good players.

To chart your progress, someone mentioned leagues, which is probably the easiest way to see results. But if you are playing mostly by yourself, it depends on your game of choice.

14.1, keep track of your average runs. High runs are great fun, but your average is the true indicator of your capabilities. Lots of players have managed a 50 ball run at one time or another, but generally only run 5-10 balls at a time on average.

9 ball - You can play the ghost, but start out on the 4 or 5 ball ghost. If you can beat either easily, add another ball until you have found a game that is challenging.

Look up the One pocket ghost, it's a fun practice routine.
 
JDP12 said:
Hey all-

As I've been playing, I can't help thinking that I'm just not very good. I don't want this attitude because it can only negatively effect my game...

So I'm curious as to how you measure skill. I'm trying to get a video of me playing up on youtube but its not working right now so I'll just try and describe my game..

I've never run a rack, and on a normal rack of 15 balls I usually miss four times. The shots I miss are usually the same kind, long, all the way down the table shots. Like I said, its gonna be hard to judge me without seeing me play and I apologize for that.

But I'm just curious as to how you all measure skill and such... Obviously there's pro and stuff... But how do you define being good and such? Is there a way to really do so?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Hey man, read this

http://www.azpoolscene.com/RatingsDefinitions.html?RatingsForm=7&Safes=10&Kicks=10

It sounds to me that you are probably no more than a four or five speed. In my hall and many others in the south, there is what is called a number rating system.

10 speeds are just short of pros. They are incredible to watch and almost never miss. They are almost guaranteed to runout even when you thought it was impossible.

5 speeds can run out, but do so occasionally and are guaranteed to miss on every two to three shots because of inexperience, or simply trying to 'show off' when they have no good reason to.

4 speeds is just barely good enough to compete in tournaments. They don't really have a good social understanding of table courtesy, and proper conduct during a match and are simply in a 'learning stage' of their game.

I have personally been playing for 20 years and currently have a rating of a 7 speed. That's not bad for someone who doesn't do it for a living. I actually should be a 9 speed, but because I had no former instruction in my earlier years, it took a long time for me to develop consistency. Because of that, my game goes up and down between an 9 speed and a 7. I was fortunate enough to receive lessons from the great Buddy Hall for an extensive period of time and because of that, I feel like I now have the tools and confidence to challenge anyone in the world.

Get yourself a real, licensed, certified BCA instructor. They are the standard in the teaching of pool. It's like getting a PGA Teaching Pro for golf.

Unless you get some sort of former instruction, you will be scratching the surface for a long time. The second best thing for you to do is to seek the help of someone you look up to in the hall. Make sure it is someone who can give you drills from time to time and keep you on the right track. Part of pool is to give up some jelly from time to time, so don't be such a tight wad (not implying you are one) cause in the future, it'll come back to you.

Warning: There is no substitute, short cuts, or replacement for hard work. Spend time on the table doing focused drills straighten your stroke, and practice all the shots creatively and with accuracy developing a feel for both the table and your cue, and in very short time, you will see incredibly positive results.

Good Luck.
 
Statistics for measuring skill and progress

JDP12 said:
Hey all-

As I've been playing, I can't help thinking that I'm just not very good. I don't want this attitude because it can only negatively effect my game...

So I'm curious as to how you measure skill. I'm trying to get a video of me playing up on youtube but its not working right now so I'll just try and describe my game..

I've never run a rack, and on a normal rack of 15 balls I usually miss four times. The shots I miss are usually the same kind, long, all the way down the table shots. Like I said, its gonna be hard to judge me without seeing me play and I apologize for that.

But I'm just curious as to how you all measure skill and such... Obviously there's pro and stuff... But how do you define being good and such? Is there a way to really do so?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Simply use statistics such as balls-per-inning in 14.1 and 3-cushion. Create your own stats for training exercises as well. You'll probably derive a great deal of pleasure from seeing a decent rate of improvement in those weekly and/or monthly stats if you just use some logic in how you go about learning and training for the game.
Eddie Robin
 
JDP12 said:
Hey all-

As I've been playing, I can't help thinking that I'm just not very good. I don't want this attitude because it can only negatively effect my game...

So I'm curious as to how you measure skill. I'm trying to get a video of me playing up on youtube but its not working right now so I'll just try and describe my game..

I've never run a rack, and on a normal rack of 15 balls I usually miss four times. The shots I miss are usually the same kind, long, all the way down the table shots. Like I said, its gonna be hard to judge me without seeing me play and I apologize for that.

But I'm just curious as to how you all measure skill and such... Obviously there's pro and stuff... But how do you define being good and such? Is there a way to really do so?

Thanks
Click to expand...
I recommend the Hopkins Q skills challenge for measuring improvement over a period of time. Bear in mind that will only measure results and when you're in the early stages of learning any game focusing solely on results may lead to bad habits being formed.

As another poster said, get an instructor. Learn some stroke developing drills and then measure how you improve at these first. This will ingrain good habits as you build the foundation of a good game. (I begin every practice session with a couple of these.) Get an inexpensive spiral notebook and make notes of each of your practice sessions - what you do, how well you do, milestones reached and then some subjective notes about how you felt, how your stroke felt, what ways you were missing. Go back and look at what you wrote a month ago, after you've kept this. You'll find improvements there as well.

If this sounds a little too structured to you, don't despair. I'm a fairly unstructured person but the disciplines I've begun here are making my game better and it's a skill that I needed to acquire to help me in business.

Good luck!

Brian in VA
 
We have a little drill in pool school called "piling rocks". It's a simple way to track and measure your progress.

Throw 10 balls out on the table. Take ball in hand and start shooting balls. Every ball you miss is removed from the table. At the end, count how many balls you removed, and you know how many you made. Do this 5 times. At the end, multiply the number of balls made by 2, and you will have your shooting percentage. Make a chart, and keep track every time you do this. It's simple, and a good way to monitor your progress. Over time, you will (hopefully) see your percentage going up.

Steve
 
OK thanks for the advice... However an instructor is probably out of the question ATM... maybe in a few months or so... I'm only a teenager... not alot of money to pay for one
 
There are many factors that you fail to mention.

How long have you been playing?

How old are you?

What size table are you playing on?

How often do you play?

Do you play competively?

All these have a bearing on your ability to improve. I sure I didn't mention everything.

The way to know if your improving, is playing competitively, against someone a little better than you are. When you start beating this person on a regular basis your getting better. Then you move on to the next person a little better than you. Improvement comes slowly the older you are. Inhibitions hold you back. The fear of looking stupid, is a killer.

Focus on the positive. You could be missing every other shot. Putting fifteen balls on the table is a good thing. It gives you multiple choices to choose from. The more balls you clear the fewer choices you have left. This is when the game gets harder. This is when position play is crucial. After you clear several balls from the table,eight or nine. Try to plan a way to make the rest of them, and execute the plan. Leaving the cue-ball in a place you have more than one option may also help.

Good luck with your game. Don't get discouraged. Your better than at least 70% of the people that ever picked up a cue and tried to play this crazy game.
 
It sounds like you are a beginner....most importantly, just have fun with the game....work on a smooth, consistent, repeatable stroke....if you are a DVD guy, get a beginners pool dvd.....you'd be amazed at a few small things that can really help.....

Practice easy games....sounds like you won't have much luck with tough drills or the 9-ball ghost....

Start simple:

Practice simple shotmaking - for about 20 minutes, just place two balls in different areas of the table....work on making the ball and getting position on the other....use different routes and english, just have fun with it, get used to where the cueball goes after you hit it....cueball control is what pool is all about...

Next, rack six balls, work on a smooth, firm break....the cue should be controlled and come back to the middle of the table....shoot them out in any order.....out of 10 tries, see how many times you can run out....I'm guessing at first, you might just run out 2 or 3 times.....do it at least once a week and track your progress....when you get to 6 or 7 times, try doing a 10-ball rack.....after you master that, work on the 9-ball ghost.....
 
Try this. It's one of the easiest ways to measure skills and is one of the best practice drills I know.

· Roll out 3-5 balls to random areas of the table.
· Start with ball in hand, and plan on how you want to run all the balls. Before you even shoot the first ball you should have it all mapped out.. like: "I'll shoot the 3 in the corner, stop, do the 8 in the side, roll forward for the six, then shoot the six and draw back for the 4 in the other side".
· Try to run them exactly the way you planned. If you can do this, you win. If you miss, you lose. If you get way out of position (so you are tempted to shoot a ball into the wrong pocket, or you must shoot a different ball) then you lose. Even if you can easily run out the rest of the balls... you lose unless every ball goes in the order and pockets you planned.
· Keep doing the same number of balls until you can get it 5 times in a row without losing. Then add a ball and try for 5 more. Keep repeating until you find the number where you just can't get 5 in a row. Whatever you can do 5 times consistently is your skill level. Skill levels go 3-10.

Handicapping for skill:

3-4 balls - keep the balls mostly on one half of the table. If you get out of line but you can still play the correct ball in the correct pocket, you're allowed to try to recover. All the balls still have to go in order and in the right pockets.

5-6 balls - Recovery is no longer an option. If you meant to leave the cue ball with an angle going towards the rail, but get straight in instead, you lose. If you meant to get straight in on a side pocket shot, and you instead get an angle that would require you to move the cue ball up and down the table, you lose. Everything should be done according to plan.

7-9 balls - If you reach a point where you can do 9 balls consistently, you must now run the balls in numerical order. This is basically the same as 'playing the ghost' in 9 ball, except without an opening break.

If you can do it in order with 10 balls... you aren't necessarily pro but that's pretty strong. If you can do it with all 15 balls you're Efren Reyes.
 
OK thanks for the great tip.

I played last night against a buddy of mine just for fun... And I must confess I played awful... Really just missing some easy shots. When we went to nine ball I played a little better..

However what i took out of it was a lesson in confidence and self control... not letting it get to me became a big thing and I think I learned something then.
 
there is a thing that gives clear answer to both good questions. It is a perfect measurement of both skill and progress, and that is PAT, recently known as iPAT. PAT goes for Player's Ability Test (i was added for International I believe, and at the same time following popular iPhone and othe iThings ;).

Try to search the forum to learn more (the latest versions are offered by Amazon store). And look at http://www.pat-billiard.com/
 
JDP12 said:
Hey all-

As I've been playing, I can't help thinking that I'm just not very good. I don't want this attitude because it can only negatively effect my game...

So I'm curious as to how you measure skill. I'm trying to get a video of me playing up on youtube but its not working right now so I'll just try and describe my game..

I've never run a rack, and on a normal rack of 15 balls I usually miss four times. The shots I miss are usually the same kind, long, all the way down the table shots. Like I said, its gonna be hard to judge me without seeing me play and I apologize for that.

But I'm just curious as to how you all measure skill and such... Obviously there's pro and stuff... But how do you define being good and such? Is there a way to really do so?

Thanks
Click to expand...


by the people i beat and by the tournaments i win.
 
Practice

Keep practicing as much as you can and don't give up!I cannot stress the importance of good solid fundamentals and finding a good instructor will shave years off your learning curve.BCA has some of the best.:thumbup:I agree with TXsouthpaw after awhile its more who you are able to beat and tournaments are the best measuring stick.
 
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Been there, done that

I was lucky enough to have a good pool hall just across from East High School in Denver, and from that education I became a pretty fair shot, good enough to hitchhike around the country and make a meager living with my cue.

Life happened, I got married, got a corporate job, and the years rolled by. Then I had a strokie -- knocked me for a loop for several years -- and I had to learn to walk again, much less play pool.

It's now a few years later. I live in a place where I have room for an 8-foot table, and I've been practicing hard for a couple years. Every day I run a rack or two, and I'm working up to three- and four-packs of 9-ball.

No, I'm not the best stick in the house, not by far, bur for a senior citizen coming off a stroke, and trying to regain his stroke, I'm pretty proud of the way I play. Here's my advice:

The more times you strike a cue ball without miscuing or scratching, the more it improves your game Hit, hit, hit, hundreds of times a day. After a few weeks of this, it begins to come together. The balls keep going in. Your eye improves, you gain confidence. All of a sudden you're running racks consistently. At least, that's how it worked out for me.

I don't have a good pool hall or bar-pool table anywhere close to where I live, so I can't get competition. But I plan to attend the Derby City Classic next year (I've been three times as a spectator) and enter the 9-ball competion next year, as well as playing in the action room.

It worked for me. Maybe it will work for you. Best luck.
 
Don't expect too much at all right now. It will come. It just takes a while. Just get some proper drills and learn the fundamentals of the setup (stance, bridge, grip, delivery) and learn how to get around the table using only center ball. After you have figured out how to stroke it straight, then start using english to alter the paths a little.

There are countless tutorials and solid advice given right here on AZ, for free. Just do a search.
 
I don't worry about any measure of how I'm doing. I just keep doing what will help me improve. It takes a long time and a lot of practice and a lot of information ingested. Take lessons, practice your ass off and it will pay off.
 
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