Why Are Women Considered Inherently Inferior?

[Scaramouche]

In this thread

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=142623

Jam writes:

"The women, as hard as they try, as much as they train, as often as they compete with or without the men, I just don't ever see them possessing the same capabilities as the men players."

The mechanics of the stroke have nothing to do with physical size or power, so I am mystified by the position of many here who do not believe that women could compete with men.

Billiards, in many forms, has historically been a male amusement. Hence far more men than women have been exposed to it. And since tournaments have usually been segregated, women compete against a much smaller group of women.

Much has been written here that the way to improvement is competing against better players. Is this tip gender restrictive?

 

[TX Poolnut]

It comes down to numbers.

Way more men play pool and go out of their way to improve. The field of male applicants is simply much larger.

By sheer numbers, it is dominated on every level by men. If more women played the games, I suspect the chances of a woman Open champion would greatly improve. Since the women are drawing from a much smaller crowd, it becomes inherently more difficult to win titles.

 

[Snapshot9]

Opinion

To say that strength has nothing to do with Pool is ridiculous because anyone that has played in a 3 day tournament or longer knows how much your stamina, which is determined by strength and conditioning, comes into play in the later stages of the tournament. I have not met a woman player who could maintain her level of game after about 6-8 hours of playing at one time. And if you are tired, slightly trembling, or fatigued, it is hard not to miss a shot.

Men, for the most part, play much longer sessions than women do, especially gambling. Most American players do not train and exercise like the European players do. That just says to me, that the Europeans have a more professional attitude towards the sport than Americans do.

Strength and conditioning are always a factor in ANY sport.

 

["T"]

This question was answered here back in 2006.

We all know the answer to this question. I don't understand why everyone is beating around the bush about it.

Practice is the issue here. Let's say we have a girls age 15 and a boy age 15 both just starting to play pool. The girl is already at a 4 to 7 year disadvantage. That young lad has been practicing stroking for at least that long. He's getting the repetitive rhythm and timing down and toning those muscles. We aren't talking about just occasionally either. This is nearly constant. You just can't expect a girl to play pool better than a guy after this kind of training.

Enough said. lol

 

[JMS]

2 words: the break

 

[macguy]

2 words: the break

how about 14. 1?

 

[muddawg]

Enough said. lol

WOW hahahah LOL

 

[MnM]

1. Power
2. The dominant side of the brain in men and women differ

 

[paksat]

get down in the stroke position and hold it for 2-3 minutes and tell me strength and stamina has nothing to do with it.

you have your awnser.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Men shake hands and give pounds, the women hug.

 

[pocketspeed]

2 words: the break

no i am sorry but this is just wrong. what about games where a "power break" isnt that important-14.1, 1 pocket etc. and what about corey deuels famous "soft break" so no its not about the break.

and as far as conditioning is concerned, look around my friend pool is cluttered with some pretty out of shape guys that still manage to do well. and contrary to your post there are plenty of female players in great shape condtioning wise.

i too always wondered why its so tough for females to compete strongly with males. pool pretty much eliminates a males natural superiority in muscle mass etc

i guess i have to agree that is all about the much larger male group of male players vs females playing.

brian

 

[Voodoo Daddy]

Someone shoulda told Jean she was inferior when she beat Mizerak 4 straight tournaments in the 80's. Somone shoulda told Bonnie Hoffman she was weak and couldnt break harder than 75% of the guys I know. Someone shoulda told Yu Ram Cha she was too inferior to beat SVB this past week...wow.

 

[Johnnyt]

2 words: the break

One of the main reasons IMO (#1 is money) that you see more and more women pros playing in opens is the softer break that a lot of the men pros are using. Once they start getting the 10-ball break down a little more you will see even more a the top women in opens. We haven,t seen Ga Young Kimm or X Pan yet. They can play a little too. Johnnyt

 

[mikepage]

To say that strength has nothing to do with Pool is ridiculous because anyone that has played in a 3 day tournament or longer knows how much your stamina, which is determined by strength and conditioning, comes into play in the later stages of the tournament. I have not met a woman player who could maintain her level of game after about 6-8 hours of playing at one time. And if you are tired, slightly trembling, or fatigued, it is hard not to miss a shot.
[...]

I don't know of evidence there are gender effects when it comes to stamina. I suppose you have to look at activities where men and women have had similar training, etc. Long distance swimming is an activity with some history. Maybe ultramarathon running events. Triathlons. I don't think there's any evidence women have less stamina in these activities.

As others have said, participation numbers go a long way toward explaining the disparity we see. If a typical low-entry regional amateur event with 100 participants has 95 men and 5 women, then that suggests a 20-to-1 participation difference. If we want to wipe out this participation effect (this is related to the neglect of base rates cognitive illusion), then we should have a Mosconi-cup style team competition as follows:

Womens team --Top women players in Texas (population 24 million)

Mens team: --Top male players from Idaho, Hawaii, New Hampshire, or Rhode Island (states with about 1/20 of the Texas population).

How would these teams compare?

I've been thinking about this issue for a long time, and fair assessments are hard to do. At this point, though, I see no evidence for a gender effect in pool.

 

[Jim Kuykendall]

It has nothing to do with numbers. Men are better in a lot of sports that women would seem to be able to do as well. Bowling, ping pong, all sports that don't require a lot of physical strength, but are dominated by men. Can you think of one sport where women are men's equal? I don't know why it is that way, but it is.

 

[Bobby]

I think a woman can be a as good as a top male player but for some reason it seems to me that not many women have the same desire and discipline as the male players. There are exceptions of course - Allison, Karen, and a few others who are known for discipline and practice, but it seems that a lot (not all) of the lower ranked women pros don't want it bad enough or don't put in nearly enough time practicing. I've heard and read of many female pros in the lower tier say #20-#40 wpba ranking say that it's their biggest dream to be a top pro and then they say they practice 4-8 hours a week!!!! They should be practicing that much every day! Or they'll say "I don't really practice much anymore'

I remember several years ago at Amsterdam Billiards there were quite a few up and coming ladies who were deemed good enough to get free table time, they all were trying to become pro players and one or two made it but the others hardly seemed to take advantage of the free table time. They'd be playing video games or gossiping or whatever, and I was like what the hell?! I would have killed for free table time.

I think that's the main difference between most male players and most female players.

 

[ShootingArts]

the numbers game

Let's assume for the moment it is purely a numbers game and if you have 1/20 of the players you will get one twentieth of the wins. Simply raw math. Now that this has been decided explain the Filipino men who also represent a tiny percentage of all pro players.

As a statement about the general population, women are better than men in some areas, men are better than women in others. Years ago it was determined that women have faster reflexes as a group. That is a useful tool on the starting line drag racing and we see women do well there. Reflexes don't give them an advantage in pool however.

I think it is a total combination of many things that as a general statement keep the women from matching the men. Most don't start as young or put as many hours in on the table. There are some real differences in the way men's brains and women's brains work too. Perhaps this does give men an edge in pool, women an edge other places. As a general statement men have more strength and stamina than women. This may come into play to some degree too. I suspect it is the combination of many things that has created the discrepancy. I also suspect that a young gun lady will take a big male dominated event in the not too distant future. Some have most of the tools needed and the women's field seems to be getting stronger, wider, and deeper at a far more rapid rate than the men's field. To put it bluntly, they are narrowing any gap that does exist.

Speaking of small groups, left handed players seem to be better represented among top players past and present than the percentage in the general population indicates they should be. Left handers also have different traits than right handers, similar to the differences between males and females. Do lefties make better pool players? Perhaps we should be watching the left handed women most closely!

Hu

 

[paksat]

I think a woman can be a as good as a top male player but for some reason it seems to me that not many women have the same desire and discipline as the male players. There are exceptions of course - Allison, Karen, and a few others who are known for discipline and practice, but it seems that a lot (not all) of the lower ranked women pros don't want it bad enough or don't put in nearly enough time practicing. I've heard and read of many female pros in the lower tier say #20-#40 wpba ranking say that it's their biggest dream to be a top pro and then they say they practice 4-8 hours a week!!!! They should be practicing that much every day! Or they'll say "I don't really practice much anymore'

I remember several years ago at Amsterdam Billiards there were quite a few up and coming ladies who were deemed good enough to get free table time, they all were trying to become pro players and one or two made it but the others hardly seemed to take advantage of the free table time. They'd be playing video games or gossiping or whatever, and I was like what the hell?! I would have killed for free table time.

I think that's the main difference between most male players and most female players.

See this is it really. As a female, why would you be going out and spending tedious amounts of time over a pool table when you can be out taking mens money, f*cking around, f*cking around in general etc.

Very few of them have the work ethic or even the competitive desire to get there in the first place.

That's the real question, why not?

 

[TX Poolnut]

See this is it really. As a female, why would you be going out and spending tedious amounts of time over a pool table when you can be out taking mens money, f*cking around, f*cking around in general etc.

Very few of them have the work ethic or even the competitive desire to get there in the first place.

That's the real question, why not?

You may have just kicked the proverbial beehive with that statement.

 

[mikepage]

Well let's see.... If I work really really hard, I mean really really hard, maybe I too can gamble for thirty hours straight in a seedy misogynist poolroom against an opponent funded by shadowy drug dealer buddy.

[...]

Very few of them have the work ethic or even the competitive desire to get there in the first place.

That's the real question

Is that really the real question?

, why not?

Let's not forget.

I'm 52 years old. When I was in high school (1974 grad), there were NO girls sports. No girls on the swim team. No girls soccer. No girls volleyball. No girls ever in the weight room. No girls on the track team.

Five decades earlier, Johnny Weismuller (aka Tarzan) won five olympic gold medals and set dozens of world records in swimming.

Less than three decades after I graduated from high school, my daughter swam 500 yards faster than Weismuller ever did. She was a decent but not great DIII swimmer.

My point is that if you polled people when the male/female participation rate in swimming was at 20/1 about the ultimate performance of females in swimming, the resulte would have been WAY WAY off.