Why the UPA is Stupid

What a joke. I think you handled yourself perfectly. I wish I could say the same for Alvarez. :thud:
 
JCIN said:
$125 tour card fee.

For that you get a t-shirt, patch and the right to play in all the UPA events. Last I checked there were no other UPA events.
Click to expand...

ONe tournament = $125 tour card. :eek: :eek:

I wince when Tommy Kennedy gets to within a hundred miles of my home town and asks for his annual tour fee of $10 and the registration fee of $15 for the one tournament I play in a year on his tour. I'm going to quit complaining to Tommy. :D

JoeyA
 
Man, that just sucks asssssss.......:mad:

I don't know who this Frank guy is, but he should be fired!!
 
JCIN said:
I am a little pissed right now so let me preface this by saying this post is strictly my opinion and has nothing to do with TAR. That said, check this crap out.

I am all pumped up to go to the UPA event here in Vegas to hang out and watch some of my friends play, take photos and I was planning on texting some match updates. I get to the "arena" and ask the lady at the door how much. It is $10 for the 10am-4pm session $15 for the late session. $25 a day seems a little high but oh well. I ask how much for the whole event. She says $60, so I say "Ok, I will do that." Then she asks if I am an ACS member to which I reply honestly "No." She then informs me it will be $75 for the whole thing.

I'm sorry but $75 to watch a 31 man field with only 1 or 2 of the top ten players is just nuts. So I calm my inner nit and just pay $10 for the morning session figuring I will shoot some pics and see how the event goes.

I get into the "arena" and I am carrying my camera gear in a backpack. I set the back pack on a chair out of the way and start to put my kit together. A lady in a referee shirt comes up and says "Are you involved with this event?". I was a little weirded out by the question and wanted to respond "Not if you paid me." But I just asked her what she meant. She replies "Are you a player in the event?" I say "No." She then proceeds to tell me that you have to pay to be able to watch this tournament at which time I raise my right arm and put the little paper wristband right at her eye level.

She says she is sorry she didn't see the wristband and that not only is she the only referee for this professional event this session she has to watch the door too in order to make sure no one gets in without paying. I tell her "No worries." and go about my business.

I get my stuff put together and go sit down in the stands away from everyone else and take some photos of Josh Ulrich and John Morra playing their matches. John finishes his and comes over, sits down and we talk about the event. As we are doing this I am shooting pictures.

Frank Alverez enters the "Arena" and makes a bee line straight toward me. At this point I say to myself "Self, this is gonna get weird." I was right.

Frank: "I am Frank Alverez President of the UPA. Who are you shooting pictures for?"

Me: "Just for myself really."

Frank: "Who are you with? What media?"

Me: "The Action Report"

Frank: "The Action Report? Whats that?"

Me: "You have never heard of The Action Report? Really?"

Frank: "Well yes but I don't know who you are affiliated with"

Me: "Uhhhhh....what do you mean?"

Frank: At this point he mumbled something about BCA or...I am not sure probably because I was a little freaked out at this point with the interrogation.

Me: "There are people who want to know about this event and I was going to tell them about it. That's all."

Frank: "Well you can shoot pictures if you give us copies of them."

Me: "I am not going to do that."

Frank: "Why not?"

Me: "Because I do not do that. If you want me to stop shooting pictures of your event so I can tell people about it at no cost to you then that is just fine with me."

At this point I think it set in on him how terrible he was coming across because he mumbled some more and said "Well....let me get you a media pass...and...."

By this time I had time to think about totally absurd and stupid this whole thing was and I was pissed so I just broke my stuff down, set it beside me and said "Don't worry about it." Then he just walked away.

Keep in mind, we are at an event with 31 players and five of them are players anyone has heard of. I swear I was the only paying spectator because the only people were there with players. I am shooting pictures with a $4000 camera rig minding my own business and I get the third degree from the owner and president and basically shaken down for the ability to take photos.

I always try and see the other guys point of view but in this case I keep coming back to the same thing. If a promoter is this bloody stupid and short sited then screw him. Here we are at a so called professional event with a referee/bouncer and the biggest concern of the president is that god forbid someone may actually give a sh!t about his event. The same guy who sanctioned a tournament that aired the top finishers and then all he could do was shrug his shoulders. It pisses me off.

Never mind that the company I work for has put more money in players pockets over the last few years than his whole pseudo organization. I am probably still a little pissed so I may be being too hard on the guy but no matter which way you cut it is just dumb.
Click to expand...

Think the UPA will be Bye Bye SOON.:wink:
 
Just to play Devil's Advocate for a moment, if I went to a professional sporting event with a $4,000 camera setup I would expect to tell whoever is running the event when I arrived what I was planning on doing there. Although I've never run a Pool tournament, in my experience with other such events, organizers are much happier when people take the time to introduce themselves first and ask permission, even if only out of politeness.

All that said, of course any Pro Pool event organizer with the slightest sense should be delighted to get all the free press they can.

You can say what ever else you like about the IPT, but they did manage to shut the UPA up for a year.
 
It is hard for me to say anything about this situation as Frank and I DO NOT get along. If I say too much it will only seem like I am adding fuel to the fire for personal reasons. However I know what he is like and the way he does things and this event does not shock me at all.
What happened to Justin is bad especially when you don't have a full field and less spectators. I would think that you would tryto get something out of it in a positive way instead of what we have hear and it would have been very easy to just be nice and positive to Justin and got maybe a great thread about the event. That sealed it for me, I was going to go up there and take a buddy or 2 to see what its like. so theres 3 time $75.00 the event just lost. I know it is not much but times that by 25 and tell me it don't make a difference.
 
BVal said:
And out of the wood work you come :) I was wondering where you were. I miss ya man.

Cheezy :)
Click to expand...

Yeah, I peek in every once and a while and post when I hear something as absolutely ridiculous as this. Although, as I stated, I'm not surprised. Frank never ceases to amaze me with his antics.

Off subject, I've been working like a dog (weekends included). It sucks right now, but I'll be out of it soon. I feel so out of touch with the pool scene. Congrats on your first win as an 8!!!

Ray
 
I guess I feel obligated to add to this UPA rant. I contacted the UPA about 2 months ago to inquire about their new league system they came up with. I asked for some detailed info on how its run. I got a reply in so many words "you must show you have the finances to buy a region before we give you any details". First and last contact I will ever have with the UPA.
 
poolhustler said:
Man, that just sucks asssssss.......:mad:

I don't know who this Frank guy is, but he should be fired!!
Click to expand...

They probably couldn't find anyone else to take the job! I think Frank has been it for quite a few years. Of course, the UPA does offer one big thing to the players. If you pay your dues every year, you are officially a pro. No matter who you are!

Steve
 
sounds like frankie is taking a page out of charlie williams' greed book. oh well, as soon as they put themselves out of business, TAR will still be the best thing going for pool today.
 
selftaut said:
I guess I feel obligated to add to this UPA rant. I contacted the UPA about 2 months ago to inquire about their new league system they came up with. I asked for some detailed info on how its run. I got a reply in so many words "you must show you have the finances to buy a region before we give you any details". First and last contact I will ever have with the UPA.
Click to expand...
Who did you speak to?
 
bfdlad said:
Who did you speak to?
Click to expand...

I couldn't tell you, they were advertising for league operators and I clicked an email, no idea who replied as it wasn't personally signed. But I know it was the UPA because it was a press release and it was thier contact email on their website.
 
Last edited:
I knew UPA was Bush League when I saw Frank Alvarez on the roster of players at an event. Might as well pulled a pedestrian off the street to play too.

Josh<=== Can't run 5 balls, but I'll play him.


P.S.... I know this is slightly mean, but where is the integrity of the pro's going? When you say the top players in the world are competing in a tournament, that's what should be happening. Who's place did you take?
 
JCIN said:
$125 tour card fee.

For that you get a t-shirt, patch and the right to play in all the UPA events. Last I checked there were no other UPA events.
Click to expand...

Hey, now!!! You left out the most important part of $125 tour card fee.

By paying that fee, it MAKES YOU PRO!!!!:eek:

It's United States Professional Pool Association that they are joining in. ;)

S.
 
Like Bill Murray says in Caddyshack.....

JCIN said:
I am a little pissed right now so let me preface this by saying this post is strictly my opinion and has nothing to do with TAR. That said, check this crap out.

I am all pumped up to go to the UPA event here in Vegas to hang out and watch some of my friends play, take photos and I was planning on texting some match updates. I get to the "arena" and ask the lady at the door how much. It is $10 for the 10am-4pm session $15 for the late session. $25 a day seems a little high but oh well. I ask how much for the whole event. She says $60, so I say "Ok, I will do that." Then she asks if I am an ACS member to which I reply honestly "No." She then informs me it will be $75 for the whole thing.

I'm sorry but $75 to watch a 31 man field with only 1 or 2 of the top ten players is just nuts. So I calm my inner nit and just pay $10 for the morning session figuring I will shoot some pics and see how the event goes.

I get into the "arena" and I am carrying my camera gear in a backpack. I set the back pack on a chair out of the way and start to put my kit together. A lady in a referee shirt comes up and says "Are you involved with this event?". I was a little weirded out by the question and wanted to respond "Not if you paid me." But I just asked her what she meant. She replies "Are you a player in the event?" I say "No." She then proceeds to tell me that you have to pay to be able to watch this tournament at which time I raise my right arm and put the little paper wristband right at her eye level.

She says she is sorry she didn't see the wristband and that not only is she the only referee for this professional event this session she has to watch the door too in order to make sure no one gets in without paying. I tell her "No worries." and go about my business.

I get my stuff put together and go sit down in the stands away from everyone else and take some photos of Josh Ulrich and John Morra playing their matches. John finishes his and comes over, sits down and we talk about the event. As we are doing this I am shooting pictures.

Frank Alverez enters the "Arena" and makes a bee line straight toward me. At this point I say to myself "Self, this is gonna get weird." I was right.

Frank: "I am Frank Alverez President of the UPA. Who are you shooting pictures for?"

Me: "Just for myself really."

Frank: "Who are you with? What media?"

Me: "The Action Report"

Frank: "The Action Report? Whats that?"

Me: "You have never heard of The Action Report? Really?"

Frank: "Well yes but I don't know who you are affiliated with"

Me: "Uhhhhh....what do you mean?"

Frank: At this point he mumbled something about BCA or...I am not sure probably because I was a little freaked out at this point with the interrogation.

Me: "There are people who want to know about this event and I was going to tell them about it. That's all."

Frank: "Well you can shoot pictures if you give us copies of them."

Me: "I am not going to do that."

Frank: "Why not?"

Me: "Because I do not do that. If you want me to stop shooting pictures of your event so I can tell people about it at no cost to you then that is just fine with me."

At this point I think it set in on him how terrible he was coming across because he mumbled some more and said "Well....let me get you a media pass...and...."

By this time I had time to think about totally absurd and stupid this whole thing was and I was pissed so I just broke my stuff down, set it beside me and said "Don't worry about it." Then he just walked away.

Keep in mind, we are at an event with 31 players and five of them are players anyone has heard of. I swear I was the only paying spectator because the only people were there with players. I am shooting pictures with a $4000 camera rig minding my own business and I get the third degree from the owner and president and basically shaken down for the ability to take photos.

I always try and see the other guys point of view but in this case I keep coming back to the same thing. If a promoter is this bloody stupid and short sited then screw him. Here we are at a so called professional event with a referee/bouncer and the biggest concern of the president is that god forbid someone may actually give a sh!t about his event. The same guy who sanctioned a tournament that aired the top finishers and then all he could do was shrug his shoulders. It pisses me off.

Never mind that the company I work for has put more money in players pockets over the last few years than his whole pseudo organization. I am probably still a little pissed so I may be being too hard on the guy but no matter which way you cut it is just dumb.
Click to expand...

JCIN...I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Frank Alvarez has rubbed more than one person the wrong way. It's not you buddy. Ignorance is bliss and Frank is one blissful dude. Like Bill Murray said "Here's what you do...just get a boxcutter and sneak up behind him and you just, like, snip his Achilles tendon..he'll never play golf again!" (or in this case never promote pool again).
:D Seriously man, this story just flabbergasts me. Affiliatethis!!!
 
Many people go to sporting events and bring cameras. As long as someone isn't using flash, there shouldn't be any problem. What a bunch of crap.
 
selftaut said:
I guess I feel obligated to add to this UPA rant. I contacted the UPA about 2 months ago to inquire about their new league system they came up with. I asked for some detailed info on how its run. I got a reply in so many words "you must show you have the finances to buy a region before we give you any details". First and last contact I will ever have with the UPA.
Click to expand...
Corey Deuel and Tony Crosby are involved in something new called the Universal Pool League. I'm sure they would be more than happy to work with you.
 
AuntyDan said:
Just to play Devil's Advocate for a moment, if I went to a professional sporting event with a $4,000 camera setup I would expect to tell whoever is running the event when I arrived what I was planning on doing there. Although I've never run a Pool tournament, in my experience with other such events, organizers are much happier when people take the time to introduce themselves first and ask permission, even if only out of politeness.

All that said, of course any Pro Pool event organizer with the slightest sense should be delighted to get all the free press they can.

You can say what ever else you like about the IPT, but they did manage to shut the UPA up for a year.
Click to expand...

The thing is I run events too. When I see someone show up with serious camera gear I am happy. The only time I have ever said anything to anyone was this year at the USBTC when some guy came in and set up a video camera on a tripod right on top of the table our commentator booth was on. I told him that we could not allow that as we had the rights to all the video from that event. I was polite and explained myself reasonably. The guy had no malice in his heart IMO and was nice enough to turn the camera off without any fuss.

If I rolled in there with video and audio gear and commenced to tape matches out of nowhere I would deserve to get the third degree. That is far from what happened. Hell to be honest I already have shots of most of the guys down on a ball and that is all you can get in a setting like that anyway. The thing that really got me was the part where he said I had to give him copies.

I had something similar happen to me at the Trick Shot Magic taping in Vegas awhile back. I was shooting pics and Mrs. Braun (sp) told me that they owned all photo and video rights to the production and would I not shoot. I said OK and was on my way out when she told me their photographer didn't show and would I like to shoot for them for the same fee they paid him. I said OK. I shot for about three hours, culled the pics and made discs with the raw and culled photos for her and delivered them the next day. They were happy and I was happy. The fee was negligible when you divided it by the time I spent but it was a pleasure to be a part of it. They invited me back to do it next time. Everybody goes home happy. In her case I totally understood. They had a six figure live production going on and no one wants Joe Amateur knocking over the HD camera trying to get a snap shot. Big difference from that to a 10 AM round with four matches going on in big dark empty room.

Try as I might I just do not see interrogating some random dude who says he is there to report on your event and then trying to score free work from him. Believe it or not I do think that the investment in gear and the time and effort it takes to use it is worth something.

The thing is if he would have said "Who are you shooting for? Look we do not have any photographers here could we work a trade for a media pass in exchange for some pictures?" I would have given the guy some quality stuff for nothing out of his pocket. But the whole attitude and interrogation really ticked me off.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top