Please read: Squirt for Masonh's Micarta ferrule material.

a9ballbr8k

a9ballbr8k

Don't anger my stakehorse
Silver Member
Bob from DZ Cues has compiled a list of how much different materials "squirt" when used for ferule materials. Bob's website is among the best I've seen in many aspects. It's very well put together, and so is the man himself. I have enjoyed his site as it is informative also.

Masonh's new micarta material seems to be creating a whirl but not too much is known about it yet as it seems fairly new. It's no secret I am a regular customer of Bob's but I (and numerous others) were wondering about this new material and how it compares. I usually go with the ivorine 3 for ferrules but I would like to try out this new material on my next shaft but would like to know if it compared to the I3.

Would anybody be willing to send Bob a 1" piece of the solid rod so he may test the material to include the information on his material comparison chart? I, Bob, and I'm sure many others would truly appreciate it and the results would be public knowledge. Consider it solid evidence of it's "squirt" characteristics and it may be used as a selling point. Then we all can say..."the proof is in the pudding".

If anyone would be willing they may contact Bob, his info is on his webpage www.dzcues.com. Thanks in advance. Rob.
 
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I'd be very interested in this info. All my cues now have mason's micarta as a ferrule material. I love the look and the play and the feel. My sense is that the deflection properties are slightly lower than LBM and quite a bit lower than ivory, but having some sort of study done is of course the best way to determine that.
 
i agree that would be nice information. before sending though, i'd ask bob what size piece to send. he may not have used a 1" solid rod, he doesn't say what size he used.
 
Mason's Micarta added to list

I just calculated where Mason's Micarta would fit on my list of ferrule weights. It is the lightest material I've checked to date. According to theory, it should contribute less to cueball deflection than any of the heavier ferrule materials.

See where it stands at the bottom of this page: http://dzcues.com/ferrules.htm
 
Just contact masonh on here I know he will be more then happy to send you some.
 
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dzcues said:
I just calculated where Mason's Micarta would fit on my list of ferrule weights. It is the lightest material I've checked to date. According to theory, it should contribute less to cueball deflection than any of the heavier ferrule materials.

See where it stands at the bottom of this page: http://dzcues.com/ferrules.htm
Click to expand...

I believe it is a tube, so by boring out the ID larger you can lessen the mass. It would be hard to compare it to a solid capped ferrule. Most all ferrule materials as long as they are bored all the way through and not capped, the difference in mass would be very little.
By the way, You have maybe the best cue makers site on the web. I really enjoy looking at it.
 
Just contact masonh on here I know he will be more then happy to send you some.
Click to expand...

i am going to send him a piece when i get it in,but i figure he just drilled a .250 hole on the other materials and compared them that way.
 
by the way,i like the website Bob.shoot me a PM after you have played with the stuff a little while.
 
macguy said:
I believe it is a tube, so by boring out the ID larger you can lessen the mass. It would be hard to compare it to a solid capped ferrule. Most all ferrule materials as long as they are bored all the way through and not capped, the difference in mass would be very little.
By the way, You have maybe the best cue makers site on the web. I really enjoy looking at it.
Click to expand...

Theory says that of 2 identically machined ferrules, whether capped or not, the heavier ferrule will cause the cueball to squirt more than the lighter ferrule. How much these miniscule weight variations actually matter...I don't know. My chart simply provides some information that isn't available anywhere else. Take it for what it's worth.

I appreciate your kind comments on my website. It's getting so bloated with oddball information I've added over the years that I lose track sometimes.
 
masonh said:
i am going to send him a piece when i get it in,but i figure he just drilled a .250 hole on the other materials and compared them that way.
Click to expand...

Actually, it doesn't matter if there is a hole in it or not. It's a simple matter to calculate the volume of the tube & extrapolate the weight of a solid rod. Due to the light weights involved & the fact that my scale only measures in tenths of a gram, I prefer using longer pieces for more accuracy.
 
great info bob....i noticed that phenolic is missing from the list. would be curious to know where that falls on the chart, though it is mainly used on break cues.
 
Actually, it doesn't matter if there is a hole in it or not. It's a simple matter to calculate the volume of the tube & extrapolate the weight of a solid rod. Due to the light weights involved & the fact that my scale only measures in tenths of a gram, I prefer using longer pieces for more accuracy.
Click to expand...

gotcha.i only have triple beams so i could never get an accurate number but i could tell it was a little lighter than LBM and quite a bit lighter than ivory.thanks for the accurate numbers.
 
McChen said:
great info bob....i noticed that phenolic is missing from the list. would be curious to know where that falls on the chart, though it is mainly used on break cues.
Click to expand...

There are just too many different types out there: linen based, canvas based, different grades of canvas & linen, different phenolic binders, etc. Besides, as you mentioned, they are used purely for breaking & if you're worried about squirt on the break, you have bigger problems than wondering what your ferrule weighs :-)

Another consideration is that the breaking ferrules are often one piece, which will add considerably more than even a capped ferrule. And one, Stinger, I believe, actually has a phenolic "stem" that goes up into the shaft for an inch and a half or so.
 
RBC said:
Squirt or deflection matters more on the break than any other shot!

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
Click to expand...

My point was that if you're hitting the cue ball far enough off center on a break shot to worry about squirt, you should work on your stroke & not blame the cue.

PS finally hit 150 posts. now I can rest.
 
a9ballbr8k said:
Bob from DZ Cues has compiled a list of how much different materials "squirt" when used for ferule materials. Bob's website is among the best I've seen in many aspects. It's very well put together, and so is the man himself. I have enjoyed his site as it is informative also.

Masonh's new micarta material seems to be creating a whirl but not too much is known about it yet as it seems fairly new. It's no secret I am a regular customer of Bob's but I (and numerous others) were wondering about this new material and how it compares. I usually go with the ivorine 3 for ferrules but I would like to try out this new material on my next shaft but would like to know if it compared to the I3.

Would anybody be willing to send Bob a 1" piece of the solid rod so he may test the material to include the information on his material comparison chart? I, Bob, and I'm sure many others would truly appreciate it and the results would be public knowledge. Consider it solid evidence of it's "squirt" characteristics and it may be used as a selling point. Then we all can say..."the proof is in the pudding".

If anyone would be willing they may contact Bob, his info is on his webpage www.dzcues.com. Thanks in advance. Rob.
Click to expand...

My question is how are the tests conducted?

1. Are they done by hand

2. Are they Done using a Machine like other Companies use

Please explain the technique used, and please include the specifications / modifications of the shaft that the ferrule will be put on for the test.

I will wait for your reply!!!:smile:
 
dzcues said:
My point was that if you're hitting the cue ball far enough off center on a break shot to worry about squirt, you should work on your stroke & not blame the cue.

PS finally hit 150 posts. now I can rest.
Click to expand...

Great post Bob, nothing could be more true!!!!!
 
dzcues said:
There are just too many different types out there: linen based, canvas based, different grades of canvas & linen, different phenolic binders, etc. Besides, as you mentioned, they are used purely for breaking & if you're worried about squirt on the break, you have bigger problems than wondering what your ferrule weighs :-)

Another consideration is that the breaking ferrules are often one piece, which will add considerably more than even a capped ferrule. And one, Stinger, I believe, actually has a phenolic "stem" that goes up into the shaft for an inch and a half or so.
Click to expand...

true, there are different grades of phenolic. i still think it would be useful to measure a few types, to get a ballpark idea of where it lies relative to other materials. i have a scale that is accurate to .001g and i tried weighing a few ferrules i had lying around. i used ferrules roughly around the same volume/shape and found phenolic to be pretty mid-range, something like LBM. not terribly accurate, but it was just a quick test...
 
What about.........

dzcues said:
I just calculated where Mason's Micarta would fit on my list of ferrule weights. It is the lightest material I've checked to date. According to theory, it should contribute less to cueball deflection than any of the heavier ferrule materials.

See where it stands at the bottom of this page: http://dzcues.com/ferrules.htm
Click to expand...

Very interesting chart. Any idea where Titan ferrules would fall in the chart?
 
dzcues said:
Theory says that of 2 identically machined ferrules, whether capped or not, the heavier ferrule will cause the cueball to squirt more than the lighter ferrule. How much these miniscule weight variations actually matter...I don't know. My chart simply provides some information that isn't available anywhere else. Take it for what it's worth.

I appreciate your kind comments on my website. It's getting so bloated with oddball information I've added over the years that I lose track sometimes.
Click to expand...

In this picture on your site the material becomes pretty much moot. The ferrule mass is so small I don't think different ferrule materials really matter it that type of installation is done. Of course it would have to be new shaft construction. By the way, this is also my preferred method. I want the ferrule involved as little as possible, nothing more then a sleeve.

http://dzcues.com/images/IMG_3251a.jpg
 
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