I thought being able to comment was what this forum is all about.
ettiquette question
- Thread starter deanoc
- Start date
I thought being able to comment was what this forum is all about.
everytime I post a simple thread it turns into a springboard for someone to heist the thread.
to boil down the issue to its soimplest elements.
if a man orders merchandice and doesn't like it,is he entitled to return it within 5 minutes of opening the box for any reason whatsoever?If you answer no then about 99% of us would never buy on here again.
Having said that if a person makes a habit of returning items would you also like to know that before you sent him a cue?
I have never in 30 years of heavy trading returned an item. I know if I buy from Cornerstone,Bushwacker and others this is understood, that I have the priveledge,and they know it about me.
I asked a question to see if this was the opinion of the rank and file. The less experienced.No one was attacked,named it is understood that if you answer "yes return "or rather "I would ask for a return,"that if all the facts are not heard the respondant could make an error.
As usual people took the opportunity to respond to a strawman argument of their own imagination and used my thread to parade their opinions suggesting they need to hear both sides before they can make a judgement blah blah,when the only simple question was ""does every buyer have the right to return a cue if it does not meet his expectations' If you buy from me you do have that right,but timely action is required"
Now DD did respond in a mildly inappropriate mode,and I showed my backside. He apologized, I apologize to him and take his further remarks at face value.
If that doesn't satisfy the rest of you then don't read or respond to my threads And let me know to avoid yours too. And the rest of you are invited to come to Dallas and match up some One pocket and setltle this in a manly way
To put the rest of you bleeding hearts at ease I gave the seller $150 to take his $600 cue back. Can you imagine how hard it would be for me to sell it if I had to tell a prospective buyer that it looked like someone other than the cuemaker chopped the ferrules off a little bit and glue lines on the ferrules indicated that some hack replaced them ?
I sent the cue back at a 25% loss in 1 day because the seller didn't tell disclose this to me
Several of you have requested his identity so you can avoid dealing with him
,but that is not necessary because he tells me he is an honorable man and always does the right thing,so as you can see there is nothing to worry about
dean
to boil down the issue to its soimplest elements.
if a man orders merchandice and doesn't like it,is he entitled to return it within 5 minutes of opening the box for any reason whatsoever?If you answer no then about 99% of us would never buy on here again.
Having said that if a person makes a habit of returning items would you also like to know that before you sent him a cue?
I have never in 30 years of heavy trading returned an item. I know if I buy from Cornerstone,Bushwacker and others this is understood, that I have the priveledge,and they know it about me.
I asked a question to see if this was the opinion of the rank and file. The less experienced.No one was attacked,named it is understood that if you answer "yes return "or rather "I would ask for a return,"that if all the facts are not heard the respondant could make an error.
As usual people took the opportunity to respond to a strawman argument of their own imagination and used my thread to parade their opinions suggesting they need to hear both sides before they can make a judgement blah blah,when the only simple question was ""does every buyer have the right to return a cue if it does not meet his expectations' If you buy from me you do have that right,but timely action is required"
Now DD did respond in a mildly inappropriate mode,and I showed my backside. He apologized, I apologize to him and take his further remarks at face value.
If that doesn't satisfy the rest of you then don't read or respond to my threads And let me know to avoid yours too. And the rest of you are invited to come to Dallas and match up some One pocket and setltle this in a manly way
To put the rest of you bleeding hearts at ease I gave the seller $150 to take his $600 cue back. Can you imagine how hard it would be for me to sell it if I had to tell a prospective buyer that it looked like someone other than the cuemaker chopped the ferrules off a little bit and glue lines on the ferrules indicated that some hack replaced them ?
I sent the cue back at a 25% loss in 1 day because the seller didn't tell disclose this to me
Several of you have requested his identity so you can avoid dealing with him
,but that is not necessary because he tells me he is an honorable man and always does the right thing,so as you can see there is nothing to worry about
dean
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Ole Pal,
i wouldn't have taken the hit on this cue. Hope the seller doesn't think every one is as amiable.
Your Younger Pal, Adam
Craig, by your rationale, Dean hardly had any reason to post this thread at all, did he?
I fully understand Deans intent in posting this situation in the manner he did to this forum. Obviously he was trying to communicate a message to a seller who did not want to honor his obligation to a Buyer. The message was very simple the seller should refund Deans money, because Dean was unhappy with the transaction, due to the fact that the item was not as described.
Now whether the seller has enough knowledge to know that or not doesn't even matter that is the how business transactions concerning cues have been handled since I have been a member here. People who do not want to play in an honorable fashion are through in short order dealing in cues on this forum. These rules may not even be written, but when you consider that there is more than $100,000( Estimated most likely more) a year in cue transactions the buying and selling community have designed rules that protect both parties as much as that is possible. When a buyer or a seller break the rules they are black listed by PM and they will no longer be free to screw others like the seller involved in this thread did to Dean. Dean should not have paid a single penny to return that cue, TO THAT SELLER YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT IF YOU OFFER THAT CUE FOR SALE ON THE FORUM AGAIN YOU WILL BE EXPOSED TO THE FORUM.
Now getting back to the point, in many cases when a seller is being pressured like Dean choose to do, they will have others defend them during the thread because they will not expose themselves. I have a sneaking suspicion that this thread may have had some one step in because they were friends with the seller to help out their buddy. Now this is plain and simple Bull Shit, the only person who should respond in any way for the seller would be the seller telling his side of the story which he never did, but that doesn't even matter this point.
The problem I had with the posts that DD made was that he stated that Dean in his opinion on some points didn't have a leg to stand on, and that for the problems Dean listed he would take the cue back and never do business with Dean again. Like I said in my post if he wasn't a new member I would not have taken it easy on him. What it all comes down too, if you don't know how things work it is smarter and much easier to listen and learn. Oh, and never get involved with some one who acting in a manner that is considered dishonest as far as transactions are concerned, because when they screw some one and you are involved in their play your reputation also will suffer.
You were rude, and I was confused not by your words, but by why you wrote them. I still am. Dave doesn't need thicker skin; someone else needs to brush up his manners.[/QUOTE
Thanks for the compliment, and I am very glad there is no confusion on your part. You have not seen all the bad deals go down and all the different ways people are taken advantage of on this and other forums. As for my manners I speak my mind clearly and directly to the point, if you find doing that bad manners I offer no apology. If Dave would like to step forward and explain his thoughts and that shows that mine are wrong I will offer him an apology, I have no problem admitting when I am wrong.
Thanks for your opinion and your thoughts, but I will stand by mine. But worst of all another honest member have been taken advantage of and lost some their hard earned money, this is the real problem and whether some members do not like my attitude I could careless. I am more concerned with members not being treated fairly, I have a very strong back and big shoulders I do not run in the face of opposition, in fact I am stimulated by any challenge.
Take care:smile:
The buyer didn't have a chance to personally examine the piece he was purchasing so of course the seller has to offer a no-questions-asked return for refund guarantee. That is the only way to do business through the internet or mail order. Descriptive terms are by their very nature, subjective, and it's silly to have a discussion about who is right in their assessment of a word like "excellent" or some other subjective descriptive term. If the buyer is unhappy with the product once he has actually seen it, just give him his money back and sell it to someone else. The only reason a seller wouldn't want to do a return for refund would be the seller feels he got away with something or he won't do as well reselling the piece, and that's not fair business. If you have a fair product at a fair price there's another buyer waiting in the wings, life is too short to be worrying about who is "right", just take the product back, refund the money and sell it to the next buyer.
Thanks
Kevin
Thanks
Kevin
The reason I reacted in the manner I did was because I read between the lines. In too many cases on this forum when problems like this occur where buyer or sellers are taken advantage of others are used as pawns to protect the guilty party who never posts to the thread.
If you do not know the seller and have nothing to do with that individual then I owe you a public Apology, which I will gladly give you.
Throughout this I have gained a lot of respect for Dean. I wish that he hadn't had to refund money to get a subpar cue (much worse than the original description led me to believe) returned.
I also wish Dean had not refunded this individual anything, because now the individual thinks he can play another member in the same manner.
On this forum if some one buys a cue from another member there is no such thing as no refund, every member has the right to return a cue in the same condition it was shipped in within 72 hour's of the cues arrival for any reason. It a cue is returned to a seller, the buyer should reimburse the seller the initial cost of shipping unless the cue is defective or not as described.
With that said there is no reason for the sellers behavior in the transaction in this thread, and Dean should not have not have lost any money. I hope this seller is reading this thread, because when they try and resell this cue on this forum they will be called out and exposed. The only way to avoid this is if the seller squares this with Dean and properly describes this cue if they list it again.
Double D, I hope you will except my apology, I really am not the Ass I appear to be, I just hate seeing others taken advantage of.
Thanks very much for the manner in which you handled yourself throughout this thread. I truly respect your demeanor and your manners, unfortunately, I am allot like my Avatar just a Big Dog that barks too quickly sometimes. While I am difficult to deal with at times one thing I can guaranty is that I will never desert a friend, and I always stand up for what I believe right or wrong as we have seen. However, when I am wrong I will also stand up and admit that I am, with no reservation. However, I have not and will ever bow to group pressure to do so, if I have a dispute with some one only myself and they individual can resolve that dispute.
Thanks again for taking the time to clear things up and for the adult manner in which you did so, you have earned my respect for what that may worth to you after my out burst, I hope to see you post more often, your demeanor alone offers much by it's self.
Thanks for the compliment on the cue, but I really did not do much, Chino is a great guy who I consider a friend.
Respectfully
Craig
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Ettiquette Question
I agree with manwon completely. If this cue was advertised as 13 mm shafts and one was 12.50 I would want to send it back for that reason alone.
I am currently sending out a cue to a fellow AZer with great I-Trader rating without any payment first. I told this AZer if he liked the cue he could then pay me and if he didn't (FOR ANY REASON) he could send the cue back (with notice to me within 2 days after receiving it) at his expense (which he agreed to).
When you spend alot of money for a cue it should be to your complete satisfaction and you should have the right to send it back if it isn't.
I agree with manwon completely. If this cue was advertised as 13 mm shafts and one was 12.50 I would want to send it back for that reason alone.
I am currently sending out a cue to a fellow AZer with great I-Trader rating without any payment first. I told this AZer if he liked the cue he could then pay me and if he didn't (FOR ANY REASON) he could send the cue back (with notice to me within 2 days after receiving it) at his expense (which he agreed to).
When you spend alot of money for a cue it should be to your complete satisfaction and you should have the right to send it back if it isn't.
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I think it is terrible that you had to pay to send the cue back. If the seller feels he is honorable, he should step up and explain why he needed $150 to take back a $600 cue instead of continuing to hide. I personally would not want to do buisness with him at this point, although, we unfortunately do not know who he is.
Turnip truck
- I am glad Dean finally posted the selling price, because when he said inexpensive, that was the key word, and you can not expect Cadillac standards on a Yugo. (Remember Yugos!). 1/16" you should not complain about. Messed up ferrules, yes you should. Many players make the mistake of having a 'retipper' put on a ferrule when they really don't know what they are doing. They should always have a cuemaker put on ferrules.
And I would say that at least half of the cues sold is because the owner did not like something about the cue, warped shafts?, balance, improper inlays, ugly stick, cue too fat or thin, or something else wrong. It's kind of like the thought of a mail-order bride, sounds great, until she's been here 6 months and you start to notice the negative things .... LOL, just kidding ...
- I am glad Dean finally posted the selling price, because when he said inexpensive, that was the key word, and you can not expect Cadillac standards on a Yugo. (Remember Yugos!). 1/16" you should not complain about. Messed up ferrules, yes you should. Many players make the mistake of having a 'retipper' put on a ferrule when they really don't know what they are doing. They should always have a cuemaker put on ferrules.
And I would say that at least half of the cues sold is because the owner did not like something about the cue, warped shafts?, balance, improper inlays, ugly stick, cue too fat or thin, or something else wrong. It's kind of like the thought of a mail-order bride, sounds great, until she's been here 6 months and you start to notice the negative things .... LOL, just kidding ...
no!...............