Simonis Std Green 860 -- their website Fails so I ask the experts
- Thread starter OTLB
- Start date
OTLB
Banned
Because now he can pull from the other side as well, guess you can't read either.
Yeap SIMONIS is coming off the OTLB website, I just informed IVAN.
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In case you haven't figured it out yet John....in order to pull from the "other side"....you have to FIRST attach ONE side, and when you do that..you pull the loose cloth across the slate...because the OTHER side is NOT attached to anything! Then, when you go to the other side to stretch it, all you're doing is now pulling against ONE anchored side!
So, now to Simonis. What are you going to tell a customer of yours who want's Simonis cloth on their pool table...."I don't sell Simonis cloth anymore because I'm acting like a little baby that didn't get his way with the bad REALKINGCOBRA?
Let me take pleasure to inform you of something little boy, here's some words of advice I'm SURE you're NOT going to listen to....if YOU don't sell the customer Simonis cloth....someone else will, only you'll be the one out the money, NOT Simonis!
Your temper tantrum and throwing a fit really means nothing to me, and I'm quit sure Simonis either, as I'm more concerned with retail stores that are Simonis cloth dealers, yet (1) either don't carry Simonis cloth on hand and have to order it in, or (2) have Simonis cloth on hand, yet want to charge a mechanic more than full retail for the purchase of the cloth, try $345.00 for one rip of 9ft Simonis cloth here in Vegas...and it has to be ORDERED in!!!...But wait...if I want Championship....it's HERE, in STOCK!
What's next........, you gonna spit out you're gum if you can't have some ice-cream as well? John, don't bother showing up, I raised my kids and don't want to be bothered by any more!
Glen
OTLB
Banned
Thanks for your honesty.
hey Glen, have you ever sprayed\misted the cloth to get more stretch out of it?
Simonis told me I can't sell it for the price I have and since they say that I am not selling it. IF you want I will forward you the email if you don't beleive me. Its funny 10 years I have undersold and given a fair price and all of a sudden, out of the blue I get this comminucation. Thats why! Boy what timing. Its Ok though whatever my customers want they get but the funny thing is, is that I tell them what to use.
yeap I am mad, and Glen I never planned on coming and I told that to others. NOT because I wasn't interested but I can NOT make it.
I hope all you guys have fun and do what you want.
hey Glen, have you ever sprayed\misted the cloth to get more stretch out of it?
Simonis told me I can't sell it for the price I have and since they say that I am not selling it. IF you want I will forward you the email if you don't beleive me. Its funny 10 years I have undersold and given a fair price and all of a sudden, out of the blue I get this comminucation. Thats why! Boy what timing. Its Ok though whatever my customers want they get but the funny thing is, is that I tell them what to use.
yeap I am mad, and Glen I never planned on coming and I told that to others. NOT because I wasn't interested but I can NOT make it.
I hope all you guys have fun and do what you want.
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Bert Harvey, owner of Harvey's billiards in Renton, Wa. use to recover his own pool tables in his pool hall. He use to use a spray bottle to wet the cloth after he laid it out on the 9fts, then he'd stretch it 6" from side to side installing the cloth thinking he was stretching the hell out of it, and actually thought the cloth would shrink up when it dried out and be tight as hell, problem was after it dried out, the cloth laid there on the table limp as hell, and would wrinkle up in front of your fingers if you slid your hand across the playing surface! No, I haven't tried to mist the cloth with water....because of that reason
Glen
PS. I'm very well aware of Simonis's pricing policy John
At the moment it looks like I'll be in Oklahoma and Colorado,so,I'm probably not going to make it either...
Sounds like a great time,and a good gathering,if something changes,then I'm there,but at the moment,it's a definite positive maybe I won't be.
Love to be there,but jobs come first around here-:thumbup:
Have fun everyone in the event I don't make it.:frown:
Sounds like a great time,and a good gathering,if something changes,then I'm there,but at the moment,it's a definite positive maybe I won't be.
Love to be there,but jobs come first around here-:thumbup:
Have fun everyone in the event I don't make it.:frown:
OTLB
Banned
Bert Harvey, owner of Harvey's billiards in Renton, Wa. use to recover his own pool tables in his pool hall. He use to use a spray bottle to wet the cloth after he laid it out on the 9fts, then he'd stretch it 6" from side to side installing the cloth thinking he was stretching the hell out of it, and actually thought the cloth would shrink up when it dried out and be tight as hell, problem was after it dried out, the cloth laid there on the table limp as hell, and would wrinkle up in front of your fingers if you slid your hand across the playing surface! No, I haven't tried to mist the cloth with water....because of that reason
Glen
PS. I'm very well aware of Simonis's pricing policy John
Bert Harvey, owner of Harvey's billiards in Renton, Wa. use to recover his own pool tables in his pool hall. He use to use a spray bottle to wet the cloth after he laid it out on the 9fts, then he'd stretch it 6" from side to side installing the cloth thinking he was stretching the hell out of it, and actually thought the cloth would shrink up when it dried out and be tight as hell, problem was after it dried out, the cloth laid there on the table limp as hell, and would wrinkle up in front of your fingers if you slid your hand across the playing surface! No, I haven't tried to mist the cloth with water....because of that reason
Glen
PS. I'm very well aware of Simonis's pricing policy John
Yes I guess you are aware of everything with Simonis.. Its worth mentioning that before I got cranked I never had a problem with Simonis. I think my price of $200 was very fair for a 9ft piece and that was with free delivery and chalk and I was still making money. Really just wanting to help my customers so they could afford it..... Pretty soon it will be like putting Kevlar on your table and noone will be able to afford it. I always try to help my customers, give them a good price. I don't advertise one price and then say things like PM me, call me and I will sell it for less or something like that. I sold it just like the way I do things in here. I set my price since I am selling it. Once I buy Simonis its mine and not theirs. Its clear what I charge is less and I will continue to do it "MY WAY".
I am also the best salesmen in the country so I am not worried about swaying my customers in another direction, of which I already have a great product.
Your 100% wrong about me being hurt by not having Simonis on my website. Fact is when people go to my site they would have seen that I sold Simonis and now they wont. They for the most part are not going to my site to purchase cloth anyways. I am NOT in the cloth business so see, it doesn't matter to me. I think they have a good product and if my customers request it fine, if not, oh well.
You think I got upset all by myself in here. You and Dartman like to hammer me, its ok, I am use to it. I am surprised though to the extent.
Well I think I would have told Harvey to first put it on as tight as he could dry with my tac strips and then mist the cloth to get the extra stretch he wanted. Easier to control and he wouldn't have caused the distortion. Do you think doing that is a problem, misting it when tight, and getting another .5 to 1 inch of stretch without overdoing it? Well thats what I do Glen with my tac strips and thats why I am confident I can put on your cloths. So now a guy can pull it more, the same guy and more than likely meet 3 inch stretch when he couldn't before. He hasn't overstretched the cloth because it stretches to 3 inches anyways.
So now there is a spec, 3 inch stretch and geese, maybe just about anyone could do it.
Whoops time to get to the gym, then I have to move a table. It needs new cloth. I know what I am putting on.
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Simonis has a set msrp on their cloth, and the reason for that is so that no one can openly advertise and undercut the prices set by others that sell Simonis cloth in order to keep the market fair for all those that sell its product....and I consider that a fair and reasonable business practice. So, after saying that, Simonis has IMO every right to inform you that you are not following their guide lines by advertising it at a lower than msrp price on your web site, and I'm sure you were aware of that pricing when you chose to promote Simonies for a 9ft at $200 for anyone to read, and therefor fly under the radar so to speak
Getting cloth wet, misting or otherwise, will cause the cloth to loose some or all of it's ability to spring back so to speak, meaning that it looses its stretch and ability to maintain that tightness of the playing surface. John, its not about how much you can stretch cloth, its how you get that stretch...and maintain it
Glen
It's actually a MAP (minimum advertised price) policy they established 2 years ago and they take it very seriously.
If shopping the internet you'll find that all credible sellers list the same price. Naturally there will always be some
that try to undercut the system and when discovered they either have to fix their pricing or get cutoff.
The upside to MAP, IMO, is it makes retailers compete on service rather then price.
OTLB
Banned
Simonis has a set msrp on their cloth, and the reason for that is so that no one can openly advertise and undercut the prices set by others that sell Simonis cloth in order to keep the market fair for all those that sell its product....and I consider that a fair and reasonable business practice. So, after saying that, Simonis has IMO every right to inform you that you are not following their guide lines by advertising it at a lower than msrp price on your web site, and I'm sure you were aware of that pricing when you chose to promote Simonies for a 9ft at $200 for anyone to read, and therefor fly under the radar so to speak
Getting cloth wet, misting or otherwise, will cause the cloth to loose some or all of it's ability to spring back so to speak, meaning that it looses its stretch and ability to maintain that tightness of the playing surface. John, its not about how much you can stretch cloth, its how you get that stretch...and maintain it
Glen
yes I agree Simonis can do that but their timing to me is very suspicious, they don't do anything about people selling it on ebay from what I have seen.
Thread is spun and twisted and has memory. I am not talking about a 6 inch stretch. You have mentioned it before about getting the cloth damp etc but now its NOT ok. Many mechs spray the cloth, I guess they do that because it doesn't work. So you are saying Simonis can't get wet because it will fail. If you wipe your cloth with a damp cloth it will loose its stretch and not come back?
I just wish other guys would speak up in here.
WHY do you think they don't, its not because of me. I keep getting rep's and PM's saying so many nice things. How is it only you and Dartman attack me and perhpas a rogue minion. If it wasn't for all those other guys that keep telling me to stand up to you and DARTMAN I wouldn't even bother. Sorry but they need a voice and I am it.
OTLB
Banned
So once again FARTMAN you make insinuate I am not credible because I don't play ball with evryone else and charge them more. FYI its not 2 years per IVAN.
This country has been exploited by middle men for too long. When you use to go by a car they would try to tell you that the sticker price was it. Old people would get screwed and a savy buyer would deal. Same thing happend in real esate.
NOw look at the state the country is in, thanks to who. The middlemen and salesmen who operate with that mindset.
There is absolutely nothing right or fair when a compnay sells the product for one price to some and then charges full retail to someone else.
Mr price is fair and non negotiable.
Call out!
Attack you? Get a life dude. Most of what you post is stupidity and some of your methods belong on Bizzaro-AZB.
Ok other guys with the nice reps and pms - I'm calling you out.
If you have something positive to say post it here and help your boy get some credibility.
Lets see some support for -
tack strips
pocket cloth that looks like crap
double sided tape
no seam filler
cloth installed without being marked
btw - has anyone seen the pocket inserts that were supposed to be introduced at the (bca?) show? I didn't.
Attack you? Get a life dude. Most of what you post is stupidity and some of your methods belong on Bizzaro-AZB.
Ok other guys with the nice reps and pms - I'm calling you out.
If you have something positive to say post it here and help your boy get some credibility.
Lets see some support for -
tack strips
pocket cloth that looks like crap
double sided tape
no seam filler
cloth installed without being marked
btw - has anyone seen the pocket inserts that were supposed to be introduced at the (bca?) show? I didn't.
OTLB
Banned
now I am stupid and don't have a life. Your so nice Fartman. Keep it up and I am sure others will tell you what they think of you. You are sarcastic, think your above others etc piss OFF!!
I think some guy named Eddie liked my method.
sorry I am not perfect but I know you are
want to see one DARTMAN, bet me
I know you couldn't set up a table without anything in the seams. Just becasue I try something and wheter it works or not doesn't matter. I share, you are just a bird who repeats what he hears.
I think some guy named Eddie liked my method.
sorry I am not perfect but I know you are
want to see one DARTMAN, bet me
I know you couldn't set up a table without anything in the seams. Just becasue I try something and wheter it works or not doesn't matter. I share, you are just a bird who repeats what he hears.
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Deleted - not worth the time.
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OTLB
Banned
make up your mind is it 2 years or 3 years get your facts straight before you post, I know its 3 years because IVAN said so, your the one that said it was 2 years not me. yes increase your margin and increase costs, thanks for posting that DArtman. Its all about money, how much can we screw that little old lady out of when she comes in to buy a car.
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Your advertised price violated Simonis MAP. It's not about fair - it's called abiding by the rules.
If Simonis cuts you off then I suppose you need to comply with MAP or deal with it.
Pretty simple choice actually.
It's apparent to everyone tho, that whatever you do has to be different from what's right or generally acceptable.
FTR, I objected to MAP when it was introduced and also felt that we should determine our own price until realizing that we wouldn't have to price-chase people that were lowballing and making $5 on a cut of cloth. Not too many retailers survive with that business model. With MAP, the playing field is level for retailers who can then rely on a reasonable profit on the product.
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OTLB
Banned
If I buy cloth from someone, its mine and I can sell it for whatever I want. I don't have to take it off my website and thats not the reason I did. Whats wrong I was giving a fair price and not a jacked up one. You call yourself fair, you don't sell the cloth for less????????
well do you? who is fair? the guy that does what he says and advertises or the guy who doesn't.
YEAH I am different I am FAIR
ok I see RKC in the room lets have a 2 on 1, correction I will count RKC as one and you as a .5, sort of sucks to be picked on doesn't it?
Tell you what, I already went to the gym, moved and set up a table, and now have to go set up a large tent with tables and chairs for a big party from rental business. When I come back I will address your latest comments of which I will take pleasure in.
If you two would just leave me alone there wouldn't be all of this turmoil. Let other guys speak. STop running over them all the time. You probably raised your hand in class all the time to. HOw many guys like the kid who raised his hand all the time,
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John, quote ONE thread where I said it was OK to get cloth wet, with the exception of wetting the pockets in order to stretch the flaps down far enough to attach them and work out the bubbles in the pockets? I have NEVER said it's OK to wet cloth in the playing surface, "EVER" so get your facts straight! Wiping a cloth down with a damp rag is OK as long as the rag is wrung out tightly as to NOT get the cloth wet when being used!
Glen
OTLB
Banned
its ok for the pockets but not the rest, is the cloth dif in other areas? Noone will say anything in this forum except me when it comes to debateing something. This is NOT a forum at all.
If all the guys who wanted to say things but feared the attacks that they have seen my get did it would be so nice in here.
Let the forum be on its own, there are plenty of guys with as much knowledge to share, you guys don't have to answer everything.
If all the guys who wanted to say things but feared the attacks that they have seen my get did it would be so nice in here.
Let the forum be on its own, there are plenty of guys with as much knowledge to share, you guys don't have to answer everything.
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Yep - the dealership, salespeople, office staff, etc should all work for free.
Surely the showroom and lot magically appeared with no ongoing overhead costs.
Fail to see what car and cloth sales have in common other then whoever is doing the selling should get a reasonable return for selling the product.
Of course that's just common sense, which you lack.
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