What is an amateur? Galveston World Classic Guidelines.

dainese919 said:
the way I see it

no matter how good/bad you are, no body is going to become rich or broke just becoz who can or cannot play in a event.
From my own observation in the past, people who concerns too much of certain player/players allowed in any event does not usually finished top 3, regardless who is playing.
pool is a hobby for most of us, we enjoy it by getting involve with the event, supportting it by either attending the event or playing it!

I'd definitely hope to draw Efren or Busty if chance is given (like DCC), it will be awesome experience for life~:)
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The above post is why I love the pool discussion board. This is VERY true! If it's affordable for me to play in an event, I'm playing.....period.

This WILL be an experience of a lifetime!!

Thanks SAS

Ray
 
Bigtruck said:
The above post is why I love the pool discussion board. This is VERY true! If it's affordable for me to play in an event, I'm playing.....period.

This WILL be an experience of a lifetime!!

Thanks SAS

Ray
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Ok, I get it and feel the same, but most people don't think of it this way. If you have a true amateur tournament you could draw a few hundred players that would not come if it was a "pro" event. A portion of these players may then adopt the mentality that you have. They figure. I am here anyway and spending a few hundred why not mix it up with the big boys. This would equal more money for the venue, more money for the pros, more money everywhere. Players are not going to drive hours to play against pros. People fly from everywhere to vegas because they fell like they have a chance.
 
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What amazes me is that you can walk into a pool room in Bodunk, Pa and in 15 minutes everyone in the room has the line on your game, but staffs or pool tournament directors struggle to come up with a decent list to classify players. We need the PDRO (Pool Detectives Rating Organization). Put them all in a room and we will have a list in a few days. :thumbup:
 
kryptonite9 said:
What amazes me is that you can walk into a pool room in Bodunk, Pa and in 15 minutes everyone in the room has the line on your game, but staffs or pool tournament directors struggle to come up with a decent list to classify players. We need the PDRO (Pool Detectives Rating Organization). Put them all in a room and we will have a list in a few days. :thumbup:
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LMAO!!! :grin-square::groucho::rotflmao:
 
Klink said:
IMO there are not to many pro players, and that excluding 128 of them seems pretty extreme. I wonder how many players make their living from strictly playing pool.
I also think events like this are in a hard spot and no matter what definition they came up with for who is a pro and who is not, would meet criticism. I say let all but a select few, who are easily identifiable play.
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klink,

There are way too many players out there that play at a "professional" level. They are also easy to identify. The sanctioning bodies choose not to identify them. Think of how many times you see and hear a particular players name. He's not a well known pro but he keeps winning major regional tour events all across the country. Not just in his "home" geographical area. You read about him in the pool magazines. You see his name on AZ Billiards and other billiards related websites. You can bet that guy does not hold a forty hour per week job. He's a PROFESSIONAL POOL PLAYER! If I can spot him, why can't the sanctioning bodies? They will eventually. Probably after he sneaks into one of the major National events in Vegas and steals the real amateurs money. Then you hear the "gee, we didn't know about his level of play". Jason Kirkwood comes to mind immediately.


klink said:
I also think events like this are needed to promote pool and will eventually help build a clear list of identifiable pro pool players in the future. i don't understand anyone complaining or disparaging an event like this before it even happens.

Support those who are trying to support pool and billiards!
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I agree completely with the need to promote pool. It will not however help with the player identification. The sanctioning bodies already know who most of the real players are. They choose not to ask them not to come because of the money involved. If they don't play, the body loses the league sanction fee, the promotion fees charged each player to hold the event, the entry fee(s) per event, the dollar per rack charged to play and the guaranteed number of rooms held at the host hotel. Start adding that up and you can see why they don't want to un-invite players. As Mr. Griffin posted, he would rather hold an additional event to allow them to play in the tournament. That's the way to do it!

Lyn
 
kryptonite9 said:
What amazes me is that you can walk into a pool room in Bodunk, Pa and in 15 minutes everyone in the room has the line on your game, but staffs or pool tournament directors struggle to come up with a decent list to classify players. We need the PDRO (Pool Detectives Rating Organization). Put them all in a room and we will have a list in a few days. :thumbup:
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kryptonite9,

That is exactly the suggestion I've been making to the major sanctioning bodies for years. One person who works for all the sanctioning bodies. They are a member of all the regional tours, subscribe to all the pool magazines, watch AZ Billiards faithfully. When the same names keep coming up, they should be red flagged to each organization. It must be way too difficult to do because they choose to do nothing.

Lyn
 
Mark,

You and me have been discussing this for years in person, on the net and the phone. I know you care about the game. Your contributions are well known. You have adopted at least one of my previous suggestions (Players Division). I do not wish to draw a line in the sand over this. I have way too much respect for you and your accomplishments. I do however dis-agree with you on this particular issue. More can be done to define who and what a professional player is.

Lyn
 
Scott Lee said:
What kind of bizarre "ranking system" ranks a multiple-time World Champion player at 161? Strange...

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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What will be intresting is how this is handled if #129 signs up in the Amatuer event ans someone tries to tell him he can't do that. And yes, I have seen it before. now this conversation gets very intresting!!
 
Neil said:
Do I understand it correctly that you have to be a league player to play in the team tournaments? Or is it that if you are a league player, you can play no matter who you are? That wouldn't be right in my eyes if you have to be a league player to play in it.
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They said on their website that you must have been in one of the major leagues sometime in the last 5 years.

Ray
 
Scott Lee said:
What kind of bizarre "ranking system" ranks a multiple-time World Champion player at 161? Strange...

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Isn't this BCA ranking list stickly of "performance in American tournaments". "Open single-discipline tournaments with total prize funds in excess of $40,000 and select invitational events whose fields include a substantial number of American players are considered for inclusion in the list of ranking events. No event shall be included whose dates conflict with major American or International events such as the WPA World Championships or ranking events that are already included on the BCA rankings calendar."

The points list is only from the following events if I read it right:

Current as of Predator 10-Ball Championship
Event 1: 2008 Generationpool.com 9-Ball Championship
Event 2: 2008 Turning Stone Classic XI
Event 3: 2008 US Open 9-Ball Championship
Event 4: 2009 Turning Stone Classic XII
Event 5: 2009 Pro Player Championship
Event 6: 2009 International 10-Ball Championship

And the only applicable event left to affect the points....The Turning Stone Summer Event?

Seems like the included events needs to be widened.
 
Bigtruck said:
The above post is why I love the pool discussion board. This is VERY true! If it's affordable for me to play in an event, I'm playing.....period.

This WILL be an experience of a lifetime!!

Thanks SAS

Ray
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here you go!! Ray

go get those big boys, ;)
 
Flying under the Radar

GMAC said:
Regional Tour would be:

Joss Tour
Predator Tour
GSBT
Tiger Tour

There are a few others around the country I just know the ones around me.

Tournies like this. Not a local Tuesday Night tourney.


I didn't say list anybody. I said you just politely let them know they can't play. If you aren"t sure of your status you should call and they will tell you if you can play or not. If you want to remain an unknown player you should not be showing up to this event anyway.
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You make a very good point. Those players who want to know if they qualify as an amateur should contact the tournament promoters and they will let you know if you qualify as one.

Trying to "fly under the radar" is probably not a good idea especially for a tournament that has such great paydays both in the amateur divisions and the pro events. Why create problems, just ask them if you are an amateur. (You probably already know the answer :wink:)

JoeyA
 
Mark Griffin said:
The BCAPL has a philiosophy that a player should not be 'barred from play' because they got too good.

That is why we created the "Grand Master" level of play. It is open to ANY player. It is not really appropriate to define Grand Masters as amateur players - even though many of them are amateurs.

Several reasons for this decision:

1) most of our play is on 7' tables - which is a GREAT equalizer.
2) should a player be penalized by being 'too good'?
3) Prior to our control, the BCAPL had a "once a pro-always a pro" policy
which was restricting some players from playing anywhere.
4) It is very difficult (if not impossible) to determine what a 'pro' is.
5) Our goal is to see pool raise to the level where there are PRO players -
a bunch of them - which will make all of this easier.

I am glad to see this type of discussion. But we cannot re-define what a pro is. It would change constantly. We have nothing to do with the World Classic and their definitions. And using the 'regional winner' definition is very unlevel.

Just another day in trying to figure out what a pro is. This has been going on for a long time and will continue until AT LEAST there is a true pro tour or method for pro players to make a real living.

Mark Griffin
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I like the statements on your website that pertain to Master and Grand Master status:

At the discretion of the Tournament Committee, any player may be placed in the Master division based on known ability.

I don't know for sure but I would think that the world classic tournament promoters will have that same right to make that type of call.


JoeyA
 
I think anybody that has come in the top 10 or top 20 of any major tournament (such as the US Open), at any time of their life, should NOT be able to play the amateurs.
 
JoeyA said:
I like the statements on your website that pertain to Master and Grand Master status:

At the discretion of the Tournament Committee, any player may be placed in the Master division based on known ability.

I don't know for sure but I would think that the world classic tournament promoters will have that same right to make that type of call.


JoeyA
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On their website they specifically state that ANYONE who is not in the top 128 of the BCA points list CAN play in the amateur events.

I notice Mark (on this thread) and others elsewhere mention players being penalized for being too good.

This thinking is part of the problem with the growth of pool, imo. The lower level players should not be penalized for not being good enough.
Tournament such as the BCA Nationals, and others around the country, that have events for certain skill levels are very successful. not only in the tournament themselves but there is more action too. More players are willing to match up against players in their own skill level.

Lower level players should be able to play in higher level events, but not the other way around. If an event doesn't know what it is itself, how are the players supposed to know?

Ray
 
Bigtruck said:
Lower level players should be able to play in higher level events, but not the other way around. If an event doesn't know what it is itself, how are the players supposed to know?Ray
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The players are suppose to accept the rating the responsible person at each sanctioning body has assigned each player. Without question. The only time I have ever seen a player re-rated at an event was many years ago when Willie Munson was disqualified from the Senior's event at the BCA's (not the BCAPL's). Someone complained. Since then, of all the events I've played in, only Allen Hopkins has barred a player from his "Amateur" event. That occurred after Jason Kirkwood won two years in a row. He was asked to play in the Pro event instead. This year he won both the VNEA Master Eight Ball and Nine Ball. Some amateur eh?

Lyn
 
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