"The Big Ban"

gulyassy said:
I agree 100%. But until we get an organization that will make rules that are fair and constant in our sport for every level of pool lets not let one person make a major decision that affects a majority when they have not a clue what they are talking about.
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So in the mean time lets just have anarchy? Because atm there is NO true governing body of this sport that has any meaningful power or control. Does that mean we should just allow everything?

If I am playing you and I pull out a piece of "Tru-Bank" chalk, which I use to mark the rail on a bank shot where the correct contact is you are cool with that right? I am using a tool to increase my chance to make the bank and since there is no organization atm that exists that can make rulings I guess me and my "Tru-Bank" chalk is allowed.

Guess what, you will be lucky if in your entire lifetime this sport gets a true governing body that is internationally recognized as the overseeing body of this sport. I would rather not go through decades of bullcrap until then. Every sport in the world puts restrictions on equipment, pool should not be the exception, and the phenolic tips are very akin to the super distance golf balls and trampoline effect golf clubs that the PGA had the sense to ban. Single internationally recognized governing body or not I would rather not see this sport become a game of gizmo's, it is already getting frigging disgusting with jump cues, magic 8-ball jumping crutches, and all the other crap.
 
gulyassy said:
This is a very strong point to the politics in this matter. Does any one think that hitting a cue ball at less mph over and over is going to stop the damaging process if it is the material that is causing the problems. Does this make sense to anyone? So the ruling by the BCA league was that it is ok to hit the balls a little softer with the material even though it causes damage to the cue balls. They are saying that we will not let you break with this same material because it will damage the cue ball. What the heck is this all about.
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You have dodged some some very valid questions in this thread. If you are going to try and run down someone or an organization, you should at least answer the legitimate questions posed to you.
 
gulyassy said:
I want proof that my material can damage a cue ball.
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I don't give a flying fig what you want. You could have 100 tests that prove your tip actually cleans the cueball in it's use and it would not change the fact that your tips altered the purity of the game and are replacing skill and talent with equipment. Enough with the friggin gizmo's, you and the rest of the bloody garage inventors trying to trivialize the game to make a buck can go jump off a friggin bridge IMO. You are all the LAST thing this sport needs atm.
 
m79a said:
You have dodged some some very valid questions in this thread. If you are going to try and run down someone or an organization, you should at least answer the legitimate questions posed to you.
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Why wouldn't I try to get the other ferrule/tips banned as I invented it and I have a patent on it. One example from another industry, apple uses technology patented by Microsoft, and have to pay royalties to use it. Now since you are using Microsoft and apple based computers that are from limited sources would you say they have ruined the business? Why are the rules in our sport different?
 
djpstacked03 said:
If the lesser player can jump it doent mean they are going to pot the ball. Everyone makes it sound like there is no skill involved in jumping with a phenolic tip. You still need good fundamentals, good stroke and good hand speed. If your worried about them jumping than play a better safe. I am curious on what the pros think about it. I know Strickland is against it. Mind you only a few people can jump full cue with a leather tip well. Earl Strickland and Corey Dueul are the only guys I have seen do it.
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Actually I have a Sledgehammer b/j cue which originally had a phenolic tip. Then the ferrule cracked, and I had to cut of 1-2 cm of the top, put an ultra-hard leather tip on top of the remaining ferrule, and voila - now I can jump full cue with a leather tip!
 
gulyassy said:
This is a very strong point to the politics in this matter. Does any one think that hitting a cue ball at less mph over and over is going to stop the damaging process if it is the material that is causing the problems. Does this make sense to anyone? So the ruling by the BCA league was that it is ok to hit the balls a little softer with the material even though it causes damage to the cue balls. They are saying that we will not let you break with this same material because it will damage the cue ball. What the heck is this all about.
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This statement is insane. Crash your car into a brick wall at 1 mph, then try it again at thirty mph. I believe speed will make a difference. There is much more force generated on the cue ball by breaking than jumping. Try jumping a ball with breaking force and the cue ball will end up three tables away and you will be in need of a new felt job.
 
Celtic said:
I don't give a flying fig what you want. You could have 100 tests that prove your tip actually cleans the cueball in it's use and it would not change the fact that your tips altered the purity of the game and are replacing skill and talent with equipment. Enough with the friggin gizmo's, you and the rest of the bloody garage inventors trying to trivialize the game to make a buck can go jump off a friggin bridge IMO. You are all the LAST thing this sport needs atm.
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This is not about me making money. It is about what is right. I don't care if they ban phenolic, but ban it, don't make unsupported statements about things that they don't have a clue about. Like your statement with me being in a garage. You don't know me and I don't know you.
 
Celtic said:
I don't give a flying fig what you want. You could have 100 tests that prove your tip actually cleans the cueball in it's use and it would not change the fact that your tips altered the purity of the game and are replacing skill and talent with equipment. Enough with the friggin gizmo's, you and the rest of the bloody garage inventors trying to trivialize the game to make a buck can go jump off a friggin bridge IMO. You are all the LAST thing this sport needs atm.
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Wrong. Innovation is the name of the game, when you make products.

Figs are gross too.
 
Mr Fish said:
This statement is insane. Crash your car into a brick wall at 1 mph, then try it again at thirty mph. I believe speed will make a difference. There is much more force generated on the cue ball by breaking than jumping. Try jumping a ball with breaking force and the cue ball will end up three tables away and you will be in need of a new felt job.
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So you can jump a ball at 1 mph. I got $1000.00 says your wrong.
 
gulyassy said:
Why wouldn't I try to get the other ferrule/tips banned as I invented it and I have a patent on it. One example from another industry, apple uses technology patented by Microsoft, and have to pay royalties to use it. Now since you are using Microsoft and apple based computers that are from limited sources would you say they have ruined the business? Why are the rules in our sport different?
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You may have invented "A Ferrule", one ferrule, one specific ferrule, but not the concept that was around for years. I don't think the "Ice breaker" infringes on your ferrule nor do many other tips. I know a little about the inventing process. My father invented the first car wash and held 6 patents on tow trucks. One thing you learn is, if you prove the concept others are going to get into the business and in most cases improve on what you have done. That is the nature of inventing and manufacturing. The secret is always having something new around the corner you are working on. My father held a patent on a fishing lure that he sold to the Heddon. My father didn't even fish. What ever you do expect to be knocked off, that is the nature of business. You can't have all your eggs in one basket.
 
gulyassy said:
So you can jump a ball at 1 mph. I got $1000.00 says your wrong.
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Mike, do yourself a favour and stop while you still sound reasonably sane. He was talking about a car at 1mph vs 30mph. Here's a statement you cannot revoke: E(k) = (.5)M x V^2. Plainly stated, the kinetic energy of a mass in motion is one half of its mass, times the velocity squared. Let's take this example to apply to jump cues versus break cues. How hard is the average jump shot struck? 10mph? Mass of the cue? Perhaps 7 ounces? So, let's take those numbers. E(k) would be (.5)7 x (10x10) = 350. Let's take the same calculation for a break cue. Reasonable cue weight is 18oz. Reasonable break speed is 20mph. E(k) would be (.5)18 x (20x20) = 3600. As you can see, the break cue is hitting the cueball with over 10 times the kinetic energy that the jump cue is hitting it with. Also, shore strength only has to do with static objects being compressed. It has nothing to do with objects in motion, or colliding objects. Throw a beanbag at a window hard enough, you will break the window, yet the hardness of the glass on the shore scale would be much harder than the fabric and plastic beans.
 
the equipment is not the problem. every sport in the world has some kind of tech enovation or some thing to help with an advantage. hell even the players them selfs are tech out.

just because a C player has a jump cue and can hop a ball doesnt mean anything. it take REAL skill to pocket a ball with a jump cue. even the really good players can not make it easy over and over again.

i agree with banning if it damages the balls, or Cheats in some way, but not just because they want to. whats next, drug testing? lol
 
STICKBNDER said:
whats next, drug testing? lol
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Laugh all you want... But...

The ultimate goal of organizations such as the WPA is to get IOC acceptance. In order to get that they will have to follow WADA (World Anti-Doping Agency) rules. What that would ultimately come down to from my understanding is that random drug tests would be required for WPA sanctioned events IF they ever get to the point of becoming IOC accepted.

Brian
 
DoubleD said:
Ah yes, purity of the game. Tell me, do you have your own mace or are there house maces available where you play?
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What a great argument! I've never heard this one before. In my lifetime, and my father's lifetime, leather tips have been around. They've been here for awhile. Seeing as the playing surface is level, and some people decided to put those little diamond thingys on the table, I can only ASSUME that the game was supposed to be played in 2 dimensions. There should be no "purpose" cues in the game of pocket billiards. Artistic Billiards, knock yourself out. However, there is absolutely no reason why the little 40" bastard should ever have come into the game. Some people blame Texas Express rules for the creation of the jump cue. It has absolutely no place in the game. If someone has put you in a spot that you cannot legally kick out of, he/she deserves BIH for their efforts. I see no reason why someone should have to play nearly flawless safeties because you can't kick a lick, but you bought a Predator Air, and 10 minutes later, you were 80% proficient with a jump cue. There's innovation, such as the break cues, and tips, and performance shafts. The jump cue should not be allowed in pocket billiards. Kicking and safety play used to decide tournaments. Not anymore. I have yet to see many of the Asian superstars even ATTEMPT a kick. If you don't freeze them to the blocker, they will go for the short stick. It's ruined the beauty of the safety game.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
What a great argument! I've never heard this one before. In my lifetime, and my father's lifetime, leather tips have been around. They've been here for awhile. Seeing as the playing surface is level, and some people decided to put those little diamond thingys on the table, I can only ASSUME that the game was supposed to be played in 2 dimensions. There should be no "purpose" cues in the game of pocket billiards. Artistic Billiards, knock yourself out. However, there is absolutely no reason why the little 40" bastard should ever have come into the game. Some people blame Texas Express rules for the creation of the jump cue. It has absolutely no place in the game. If someone has put you in a spot that you cannot legally kick out of, he/she deserves BIH for their efforts. I see no reason why someone should have to play nearly flawless safeties because you can't kick a lick, but you bought a Predator Air, and 10 minutes later, you were 80% proficient with a jump cue. There's innovation, such as the break cues, and tips, and performance shafts. The jump cue should not be allowed in pocket billiards. Kicking and safety play used to decide tournaments. Not anymore. I have yet to see many of the Asian superstars even ATTEMPT a kick. If you don't freeze them to the blocker, they will go for the short stick. It's ruined the beauty of the safety game.
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I couldn't agree more, if you can't kick it, give the ball in hand.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
Mike, do yourself a favour and stop while you still sound reasonably sane. He was talking about a car at 1mph vs 30mph. Here's a statement you cannot revoke: E(k) = (.5)M x V^2. Plainly stated, the kinetic energy of a mass in motion is one half of its mass, times the velocity squared. Let's take this example to apply to jump cues versus break cues. How hard is the average jump shot struck? 10mph? Mass of the cue? Perhaps 7 ounces? So, let's take those numbers. E(k) would be (.5)7 x (10x10) = 350. Let's take the same calculation for a break cue. Reasonable cue weight is 18oz. Reasonable break speed is 20mph. E(k) would be (.5)18 x (20x20) = 3600. As you can see, the break cue is hitting the cueball with over 10 times the kinetic energy that the jump cue is hitting it with. Also, shore strength only has to do with static objects being compressed. It has nothing to do with objects in motion, or colliding objects. Throw a beanbag at a window hard enough, you will break the window, yet the hardness of the glass on the shore scale would be much harder than the fabric and plastic beans.
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MY HEAD JUST EXPLODED...TO MUCH THINKING..........:banghead:
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
What a great argument! I've never heard this one before. In my lifetime, and my father's lifetime, leather tips have been around. They've been here for awhile. Seeing as the playing surface is level, and some people decided to put those little diamond thingys on the table, I can only ASSUME that the game was supposed to be played in 2 dimensions. There should be no "purpose" cues in the game of pocket billiards. Artistic Billiards, knock yourself out. However, there is absolutely no reason why the little 40" bastard should ever have come into the game. Some people blame Texas Express rules for the creation of the jump cue. It has absolutely no place in the game. If someone has put you in a spot that you cannot legally kick out of, he/she deserves BIH for their efforts. I see no reason why someone should have to play nearly flawless safeties because you can't kick a lick, but you bought a Predator Air, and 10 minutes later, you were 80% proficient with a jump cue. There's innovation, such as the break cues, and tips, and performance shafts. The jump cue should not be allowed in pocket billiards. Kicking and safety play used to decide tournaments. Not anymore. I have yet to see many of the Asian superstars even ATTEMPT a kick. If you don't freeze them to the blocker, they will go for the short stick. It's ruined the beauty of the safety game.
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Yes it is a much a piss off to me as to you, I don't even own a jump cue and If I'm a inch or two away from the impeding ball I kick. You leave me a hand span maybe a little shorter to say 5" without being jacked up into the ceiling I will jump the ball with my custom Phillippi right up your arse. All my friends s**t bricks when I do this....OMFG he just jumped with his playing cue! WTF, all the time people spend on their crappy game and they cant take an hour to learn to jump? If you can't jump with a playing cue then its not jumpable....jump cues are for kitty kats and artistic pool. I agree with you 200% almost gets me furious like Earl and I agree with his bantering alot too. It's a dam shame to just put that into peoples hands because it detracts from the game and even more so from them learning to play properly.

Its as bad as when someone wants to learn to bank, so you teach the little 4spd to bank and now they want to bank straight in shots....IDOITS. Not to mention I have much more control of the ball with the full sized cue. My best buddy grabbed it yesterday and jacked WAY up to jump a ball a foot away I said dude your WAY too high up your gonna draw the ball after. So BAM he shoots and cue jumps a foot up and smacks the one in the corner and the ball draws two rails! FROM A FULL CUE....all you midgets out there go back to your day job become a man and sell that pig pole for firewood, buy a nice cue and learn how to use it properly and to its fullest capability.
Learn to kick, learn to jump and go have a coke and a smile.

Grey Ghost
 
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