"The Big Ban"

[btoneill]

Is it against golf rules to use a lob wedge?

No, but it is starting Jan 1st 2010 against the PGA rules to use wedges (or any club with a 24 degree loft or more) that has U shaped grooves. The rule will slowly be enacted for all USGA events by 2024 (2014 for USGA qualifiers).

I find all the golf analogies funny because the USGA and PGA are some of the strictest entities in sports on limiting technology. You may see lots of changes over the last 30 years in technology, but for every 1 that they have approved they have turned down 10 or more.

Brian

 

[snipershot]

No, but it is starting Jan 1st 2010 against the PGA rules to use wedges (or any club with a 24 degree loft or more) that has U shaped grooves. The rule will slowly be enacted for all USGA events by 2024 (2014 for USGA qualifiers).

I find all the golf analogies funny because the USGA and PGA are some of the strictest entities in sports on limiting technology. You may see lots of changes over the last 30 years in technology, but for every 1 that they have approved they have turned down 10 or more.

Brian

Yep you are right, the PGA is super strict, but, there are similarities between golf and pool as far as rules go. The PGA has rolled back technology because the older generation has done nothing but complain about how the new balls go too far, the clubs spin too much, and, those damn golfers are having too much fun and having too much success! Just like pool, the "purists" are so against the new stuff, they want to keep it like it was and always has been, and anything new or that helps a lower skill level player play better is evil and needs thrown out. I can jump with my playing cue, and I have a real nice Jacoby jump cue, but I usually kick anyway. If I am playing against a lesser player, he can jump till the cows come home, but Im still gonna beat him. I know players that have reached their peak skill, and if a jump cue helps keep them playing, then I say go for it. I think we need all the help we can get with this game. I understand the reasons for the resentment towards jump cues and phenolic, but if we dont embrace the changes and progress, the only place we will have to play pool, is at home. Just my thoughts.


Joe

 

[btoneill]

I understand the reasons for the resentment towards jump cues and phenolic, but if we dont embrace the changes and progress, the only place we will have to play pool, is at home. Just my thoughts.

I'm honestly ambivalent about the ban. I tried phenolic on my break cue and didn't enjoy it. I don't have a jump cue because most of my pool is APA so not much use in practicing it as I can't use it there. Plus, to be honest, I prefer the challenge of kicking. I see it as much more of an art. I don't gamble because I don't enjoy it so jumping isn't really a skill that will help me make money. It also doesn't bother me to see someone pull out a jump cue if they think it helps them.

So I'm just kinda watching this whole debate from the sidelines and piping in with "nonpartisan" input to try to help clear up "falsities" I see on each side of the argument.

Do I feel bad that Gulyassy may be losing business due to the ban? yes
Do I think the ban will put him out of business? no

In the golf associations people keep making...
Are there still plenty of non-USGA approved golf balls and clubs you can buy? yup

Why do people buy them? Because 99.9% of their playing does not require following USGA rules. If they feel better about their game that 99.9% of the time by using the "illegal" clubs more power to them. Once people start to realize how little they are affected by the ban the less they will care about it.

And....

If you really need your break cue to have a phenolic tip to win in a BCAPL national/regional event, do you really deserve to be there?


Brian

 

[snipershot]

In the golf associations people keep making...
Are there still plenty of non-USGA approved golf balls and clubs you can buy? yup

Why do people buy them? Because 99.9% of their playing does not require following USGA rules. If they feel better about their game that 99.9% of the time by using the "illegal" clubs more power to them. Once people start to realize how little they are affected by the ban the less they will care about it.

And....

If you really need your break cue to have a phenolic tip to win in a BCAPL national/regional event, do you really deserve to be there?


Brian

I agree with you. The bad part about golf is that all the top branded clubs and balls will be USGA conforming, meaning that my Mizuno T-Zoid forged Irons will become irreplacable after next year. So because the pros can spin the ball back 30 feet from 4 inch rough, now the average golfer (who cant spin it on purpose anyhow) will have less of a chance to hold that green with his shot. I know its not exactly the same, but it is realted. Ive seen some very good players jump, an I am not even close to being as good as they are. I know a guy who jumps with a jump cue with a leather WB tip that can jump and put english on the ball, and thats great, but even with a g-10 tip, I am usually just praying for a hit, let alone trying to spin the ball one way or another! lol! So I guess my point is, just because some folks are very good at it, doesnt mean that every pool player should suffer the ban. As far as break cues, I can break with leather or phenolic, but if I had to choose, Id still go phenolic, simply because I can get the same break with a lot less effort. I dont break real hard anyhow, so its really a non-issue for me.


Joe

 

[snipershot]

And for the record, even if I took the jump cue away from the guy I was talking about, he would still smash my brains in at pool, so having a jump cue is not much help to me anyhow, lol.



Joe

 

[ShootingArts]

equipment races

All equipment races are ultimately futile. In some forms of competition we have raised the cost of equipment until we killed the class because nobody could afford to compete. A break cue is a wonderful thing as long as you are the only one or one of the few that has them. Once most people have them, no real advantage but now everybody has to lug around a break cue and spend money buying and maintaining it. The same with the jump cue and all the latest whiz-bang gadgets that are going to make you the next great player.

In keeping with the golf comparison, I do believe they limit how many clubs you can use in an event. I would be fine with one cue in an event and only if you damage it can you swap shafts or whatever is damaged. Once you swap you use what you swapped to for the rest of the event.

Of course as an on again off again cue maker I am fine with you having a general playing cue, a break cue, a jump cue, a cue for cutting balls, a cue for banking, a cue for nine ball, a cue for eight ball, a cue for one pocket, a cue for . . .

Like Heinz I'll make 57 varieties if you will buy them!

Hu

 

[btoneill]

Of course as an on again off again cue maker I am fine with you having a general playing cue, a break cue, a jump cue, a cue for cutting balls, a cue for banking, a cue for nine ball, a cue for eight ball, a cue for one pocket, a cue for . . .

Like Heinz I'll make 57 varieties if you will buy them!

Can you make me a "How the hell did you pull that shot out of your a$$" cue? I could really use something to help me with those shots, I keep attempting them, but all that happens is I end up giving the other guy ball in hand...

Brian

 

[ShootingArts]

I already offer that one!

Can you make me a "How the hell did you pull that shot out of your a$$" cue? I could really use something to help me with those shots, I keep attempting them, but all that happens is I end up giving the other guy ball in hand...

Brian

Brian,

I already offer that one! It doesn't actually work but it impresses the hell out of people when you pull it out of the case. I introduced it April first of 2008 if I remember rightly.

Hu

 

[Black-Balled]

Can you make me a "How the hell did you pull that shot out of your a$$" cue?
Brian

Brian,

I already offer that one! ... I introduced it April first of 2008 if I remember rightly.

Hu

There was a guy at the local hall who bought a knock-off from fleabay. It caused rectal bleeding to quite a few folks. guess something got lost in the translation to Chinese...

 

[Luxury]

I think the people who think the kick is the better shot than the jump would get tortured by the folks who know the jump shot is the right shot to play if you are proficient at jumping and kicking.

I'm a league player and I think I could make that shot way more times jumping than any pro could kicking it in.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

I'm a league player and I think I could make that shot way more times jumping than any pro could kicking it in.

Think you could do it without your beloved jump cue? This is the reason the short stick should be gone.

 

[Luxury]

Think you could do it without your beloved jump cue? This is the reason the short stick should be gone.

I've never had a reason to try to do it otherwise. Jump cues are legal for pros and in my league so I learned to play the shot the best way possible.

I think it's so silly when people are trying to get jump cues banned in a sport that is broke due to it's lack of entertainment value and it is so obvious that most of the viewers like watching jump shots!

In that video of Mika Immonen vs SVB the commentater actually said that jump cues should be banned and then immediately admitted that they are good for the audience!

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

I've never had a reason to try to do it otherwise. Jump cues are legal for pros and in my league so I learned to play the shot the best way possible.

I think it's so silly when people are trying to get jump cues banned in a sport that is broke due to it's lack of entertainment value and it is so obvious that most of the viewers like watching jump shots!

In that video of Mika Immonen vs SVB the commentater actually said that jump cues should be banned and then immediately admitted that they are good for the audience!

And you'll be the first one crying when the phenolic tipped jump cues are banned as well. It's coming. Make sure to pack a towel.

 

[Luxury]

And you'll be the first one crying when the phenolic tipped jump cues are banned as well. It's coming. Make sure to pack a towel.

No I will not because I will still shoot the best shot within the rules and still enjoy pool as a pasttime and continue to make more money than I need in my career. It's the pro pool players who will suffer if they ban jump cues on the pro circuit and make it even less entertaining to watch.

But I don't think they will do that.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

No I will not because I will still shoot the best shot within the rules and still enjoy pool as a pasttime and continue to make more money than I need in my career. It's the pro pool players who will suffer if they ban jump cues on the pro circuit and make it even less entertaining to watch.

But I don't think they will do that.

Weren't you the one screaming and crying about the BCAPL banning phenolics on the break cues? You did all but call your local governor (who knows - you may have done that too) and posted rant after rant, calling the BCAPL every name in the book after their decision. Now you're OK with it? Sure.

 

[greyghost]

Whats best for the game is best for the people in it not the other way around. Golf is a strong adherence to this. People would be more impressed and shocked by a two rail kick than any reg jump shot imo. I shoot the jumper all the time and make a ball/or contact at min, but when I kick slam a ball in the corner and continue to run out...people s**t their pants in excitement! If they wanted to make a club that gave everyone 300yds they could but you wouldn't see them using that in comp.

Ill just go call easton and get a scadinum alloy with carbon fiber from easton made into a shaft and break so hard effren is gonna need the rainbow, hell the balls might POOF and turn to dust on impact too. Stupid and weak is what jump cues are in play, but are wonderful for artistic billiards. Hey let them use jump cues in 3 cushion too while we are at it because sometimes it might help...or hell lets just start using them in straight pool, and one-pocket too.


Jumping-for-f****** Joy,
Grey Ghost


Did I mention Kriss Kross will make you jump jump
so will Van Halen, oh and my huebler, and my weinstock, and my phillippi, and my...jesus where's Ted Nugent when we need him...he shoots stuff why not with a cue too.

 

[Luxury]

Weren't you the one screaming and crying about the BCAPL banning phenolics on the break cues? You did all but call your local governor (who knows - you may have done that too) and posted rant after rant, calling the BCAPL every name in the book after their decision. Now you're OK with it? Sure.

I know bs when I hear it and I will call people out on it. Many others pointed out that the reasoning for the ban was bs. There is another reason and they changed their reasoning then would stutter nervously when trying to justify it.

Then I pointed out that a lot of guys won't bother modifying their equipment or buying new equipment they just won't bother to go to the big events where the bans are and that would cost more than a few cue balls. (No evidence that the tips are damaging them)

Yep, that was me alright. But I'm okay if they ban jump cues too because I'm simply not needing to compete at those events that bad.

I am concerned for the pros though if they were banned everywhere.

 

[Luxury]

Whats best for the game is best for the people in it not the other way around. Golf is a strong adherence to this. People would be more impressed and shocked by a two rail kick than any reg jump shot imo. I shoot the jumper all the time and make a ball/or contact at min, but when I kick slam a ball in the corner and continue to run out...people s**t their pants in excitement! If they wanted to make a club that gave everyone 300yds they could but you wouldn't see them using that in comp.

Ill just go call easton and get a scadinum alloy with carbon fiber from easton made into a shaft and break so hard effren is gonna need the rainbow, hell the balls might POOF and turn to dust on impact too. Stupid and weak is what jump cues are in play, but are wonderful for artistic billiards. Hey let them use jump cues in 3 cushion too while we are at it because sometimes it might help...or hell lets just start using them in straight pool, and one-pocket too.


Player Name Prize Money Totals
Mika Immonen $76,820.00
Ralf Souquet $59,585.00
Shane Van Boening $56,650.00
Thorsten Hohmann $55,900.00
Darren Appleton $55,231.00
Niels Feijen $46,299.00
John Schmidt $45,100.00
Karen Corr $38,079.00
John Brumback $32,000.00
Daryl Peach $27,483.00
Pei-Chun Tsai $25,000.00
Corey Deuel $24,845.00
Pin-Yi Ko $24,700.00
Kelly Fisher $24,568.00
Jasmin Ouschan $23,878.00
Stevie Moore $23,600.00
Ricky Yang $23,500.00
Dennis Orcollo $22,500.00
Charlie Bryant $22,245.00
Chieh-Yu Chou $22,000.00

You're right about one thing. What's best for the game is best for the players. They can make whatever restrictions in golf and the players will still be filthy rich. You make restrictions that make pool even less entertaining for the viewers and there will be even more players at the poverty level.

The 2 rail kick slam shots RARELY go in. The jumps go in often and the crowd goes nuts every time. Watch more pro pool, you'll see.

 

[snipershot]

Whats best for the game is best for the people in it not the other way around. Golf is a strong adherence to this. People would be more impressed and shocked by a two rail kick than any reg jump shot imo. I shoot the jumper all the time and make a ball/or contact at min, but when I kick slam a ball in the corner and continue to run out...people s**t their pants in excitement! If they wanted to make a club that gave everyone 300yds they could but you wouldn't see them using that in comp.

Ill just go call easton and get a scadinum alloy with carbon fiber from easton made into a shaft and break so hard effren is gonna need the rainbow, hell the balls might POOF and turn to dust on impact too. Stupid and weak is what jump cues are in play, but are wonderful for artistic billiards. Hey let them use jump cues in 3 cushion too while we are at it because sometimes it might help...or hell lets just start using them in straight pool, and one-pocket too.


Player Name Prize Money Totals
Mika Immonen $76,820.00
Ralf Souquet $59,585.00
Shane Van Boening $56,650.00
Thorsten Hohmann $55,900.00
Darren Appleton $55,231.00
Niels Feijen $46,299.00
John Schmidt $45,100.00
Karen Corr $38,079.00
John Brumback $32,000.00
Daryl Peach $27,483.00
Pei-Chun Tsai $25,000.00
Corey Deuel $24,845.00
Pin-Yi Ko $24,700.00
Kelly Fisher $24,568.00
Jasmin Ouschan $23,878.00
Stevie Moore $23,600.00
Ricky Yang $23,500.00
Dennis Orcollo $22,500.00
Charlie Bryant $22,245.00
Chieh-Yu Chou $22,000.00

You're right about one thing. What's best for the game is best for the players. They can make whatever restrictions in golf and the players will still be filthy rich. You make restrictions that make pool even less entertaining for the viewers and there will be even more players at the poverty level.

The 2 rail kick slam shots RARELY go in. The jumps go in often and the crowd goes nuts every time. Watch more pro pool, you'll see.

I agree with most everything you have said. There is the problem though. There is no pool on regular tv anymore, except for the womens tour, and the trick shot shows, where ironically, they all use phenolic tipped jump cues! lol! If its good for pool, then its good for me.



Joe

 

[Luxury]

I agree with most everything you have said. There is the problem though. There is no pool on regular tv anymore, except for the womens tour, and the trick shot shows, where ironically, they all use phenolic tipped jump cues! lol! If its good for pool, then its good for me.



Joe

Go to youtube.com and type in the search "billiard club network"

excellent matches with great commentary. Enjoy.

P.S. One day they will figure out how to make the game better for tv and it will make a comeback.