Nothing more needs to be said.
Any Comments On This???
- Thread starter Cue-Z
- Start date
Nothing more needs to be said.
It's to early for popcorn so I made toast.
thanks
for sharing
hugs
mrs.g
thanks
for sharing
hugs
mrs.g
Wikipedia® Definitions:
Parasitism:A type of symbiotic relationship between two different organisms where one organism, the parasite, benefits at the expense of the host.
Leecher:Being a leech or leecher refers to the practice of benefiting, usually deliberately, from others' information or effort but not offering anything in return, or only token offerings in an attempt to avoid being called a leech. In economics this type of behavior is called "Free riding" and is associated with the Free rider problem.
The name derives from the leech, an animal which sucks blood and then tries to leave unnoticed. Other terms are used, such as "freeloader", but leech is the most common.
Parasitism:A type of symbiotic relationship between two different organisms where one organism, the parasite, benefits at the expense of the host.
Leecher:Being a leech or leecher refers to the practice of benefiting, usually deliberately, from others' information or effort but not offering anything in return, or only token offerings in an attempt to avoid being called a leech. In economics this type of behavior is called "Free riding" and is associated with the Free rider problem.
The name derives from the leech, an animal which sucks blood and then tries to leave unnoticed. Other terms are used, such as "freeloader", but leech is the most common.
Last edited:
Those words have pretty good impact, but do nothing to addresss the accusations directed at you...I don't care if you copy/ paste, but it would be good to comment.
OK, fair enough Black-Balled...I didn't lie. He wouldn't pay for a Legal Written Agreement. Wanted me to foot the bill in total. The last draw was when he set up a web-site, fingerslides.com and told me after the fact. My lawyer advised me not to have anything to do with him. She said that this action on his part showed deceit.
I told him that without a Legal Agreement there could be NO partnership and I stopped all Communication. Apparently he thought that gave him license to do whatever he wants. His last ditch effort was to use threats and attacks to bully me into working with him.
He just doesn't get it.
No Legal Agreement = No Partnership.
My advice to him is: Invent your own product and stop stealing from others who have paid huge amounts of money to patent and trademark their Intellectual Property.
"Reworking"/"overhauling" an idea with minor changes overrides permission from owner?
Nancy:
I'm sure the Geico gecko mascot he stole (pictured in his avator wielding a cue -- the only "reworking" Doug did on it) would say the exact same thing. But seemingly according to Doug, since he "completely overhauled and redesigned" the Geico gecko (by merely photoshop'ing a cue in his hands?), that gives him free license to use it and sell it. Talk about "unclear on the concept"... of ethics and trademark/infringement laws...
-Sean
Nancy:
I'm sure the Geico gecko mascot he stole (pictured in his avator wielding a cue -- the only "reworking" Doug did on it) would say the exact same thing. But seemingly according to Doug, since he "completely overhauled and redesigned" the Geico gecko (by merely photoshop'ing a cue in his hands?), that gives him free license to use it and sell it. Talk about "unclear on the concept"... of ethics and trademark/infringement laws...
-Sean
Yo, Pocketchalker, was that red or green rep you gave me? Cuz its only showing up grey. lol! Whatever........
Joe
Joe
Joe:
Yeah, I know -- I just got one of those from PocketChalker also. And a couple days ago, he left a visitor's message on my profile as well, essentially calling me clueless. This guy's really unclear on the concept...
-Sean
Sean, I know Im fairly new here, in the grand scheme of things, but it feels like Ive been here forever. When a scammer comes along, it is like they are trying to screw my friends, and I dont much care for that sh1t! lol! Now with that said, I have no idea what pocketchalker's intentions were, but his actions were that of a con man, so I gotta pick the good side on this one. Im glad others can see it also. Take care bud.
Joe
First email to Nancy after she cut off communications:
Doug Montgomery <dougm1966@gmail.com>
to rncote@netscape.com
cc bfilip@gtpp.com
date Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 10:56
subject Re: Straight to the Point
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details 09/08/2008
Nancy,
I totally understand why you wish to make all our communications through email, to have written documentation of our conversations. What I don't understand is why you turned on me. Every time we have spoken on the phone things have been wonderful, pleasant conversations with full openness and understanding as to how we were proceeding. I understand Beth Ann is doing her job to protect you, but what I don't understand is from whom. It surely shouldn't be me.
Let me point out a few things....
* I've not made one, not one of your product. I have NEVER "knocked off" your product.
* I've not sold any of the fingerslides I have bought from you. I've only used them to promote 'your' product and gather insight from professionals in an attempt to expand 'your' market.
* I've built a website that has a link to 'your site' for all North American sales and to gather interest in the European market. The website is strictly to collect interest at the moment. I took the 'pre-order' page down just to put you a little more at ease. It is suppose to promote both of our markets in the future, just as we spoke about on the phone. I even called you and told you when I registered them as to protect 'our' interests. As of today it has had 6 unique visitors. Me, you, the pro in the UK, my girlfriends moms computer and 2 others I'm not sure of
* As you mentioned, "I called you" and I've called you every time I've ever done anything with 'your' idea. If I was going to 'steal' your idea, why on earth would I call you and tell you about it? Why would I keep you 'in the loop'?
I would like to address #3 specifically in your email....
There was no 'assumption' on 'my part' that I was your business partner. Although there may not be any 'written documentation' of our phone conversations, 'we've' spoken several times of a long lasting prosperous relationship and me manufacturing and being the distributor for the European market. You told me in our first phone call that as long as I stayed away from the US market everything would be fine, In fact, you specifically told me in the last phone conversation we had, and I'll quote, "...I'm not dealing with anyone in Europe, you've been straight forward and honest with me from the very beginning. You'll be the one to handle that...". Why on earth would you now write, "I might be willing to consider an agreement with you."? From all the conversations we have had on the phone, the only thing missing was the royalties agreement. Everything else was settled. I would stay out of the US market and there was even talk about us doing manufacturing for 'you'. To 'help' you with supplying your demand. I've even mentioned to you about all the big contacts I have here and over there. Nancy, we've talked about everything.
Nancy, we have had a great working relationship. Why on earth did you assume that I was knocking off your product? What did I do to make you think that? You asked me for information about the website, I told you exactly what was happening and it appears that you assumed that I was lying to you because the website isn't getting all kinds of attention? I told you, we aren't promoting it because we haven't got any approval from you to even make the product.
"We", yes 'we'... talked about after the fact that after I get some of them made, that I'd send you several of them for your approval, to make sure that the quality was up to your standards. I just don't understand why shortly after I emailed you with the web information I got an email from About.com's Matt Sherman with you saying things that aren't true about me...Why? What have I done except be totally honest and upfront with you from the very beginning?
Maybe, it was because I don't want to just 'create' a royalties agreement and sign it over to you without any 'proof' that you are the actual patent holder? Or ever will be? Nancy, please understand... I have no doubt in my mind that you are the inventor of fingerslides. But why would you expect me to 'create' a royalties agreement before I even have a prototype to send you? Why would you give 'me' rights when you don't even know if I can make them? When I say, 'create a royalties agreement', I'm also referring to the idea that I'm no lawyer. You should have 'your' lawyer create this agreement to protect 'you'. As we are all aware, this is 'your' baby and you are trying to protect yourself. Don't accept a royalties agreement from a guy who knows nothing about royalties agreements. Have your lawyer create one and then send it to him and only accept it 'if' he can make a quality product.
Nancy, since this is being "recorded" for the record...Please, respond to this email and tell me if there is one thing that I have said here that is out of line. And then share with me why things have gotten to this point. I sure would like to know because I'm doing everything I can to promote "your" products and mine(Euro Chalker Series), and now I Matt Sherman has doubts about writing a review on our products.
One more thing, Beth Ann has suggested that I retain counsel to protect my interests, you have mentioned that I should have my lawyer contact your lawyer...I don't have a lawyer. My question is...why do I need one? I didn't know that we had problems. As I mentioned to Beth Ann on the phone, I don't like playing games. I like being straight up front and honest with everything. I know that the USA has become a 'cover your butt' country and that there is this fear of being screwed over by everyone. Nancy, I'm not into screwing people over or being screwed. I was raised on the motto that your word is your bond. You handshake is more important that anything. Please tell me that I don't have to retain counsel to 'help' you promote your product in Europe. Tell me that we can be honest and open with each other and 'grow' together.
I don't have a problem signing a royalties agreement, but not one that I make up or before I have a prototype approved by you. Have Beth Ann draw something up and I'll get a few prototypes made up and when you get them and approve them then we'll come to a working agreement.
As I mentioned in one of the last emails... the pro's here felt that the material was a little thick. If this offends you I'm sorry, it's the opinions of the Brits. Hopefully I will be receiving samples of some material in different thickness's next week(I was supposed to get them this week but the mail has been slow). When I get these samples I will have a few made up, send samples of them to you. I know Beth Ann is probably saying (to herself) that it isn't the smartest thing I could do, because I'm basically giving you ammunition to come after me by sending you actual samples, but Nancy, I have nothing to hide and I really want this to all work out. In the meantime, please have her work up a royalties agreement and send it to me. She mentioned that I have a US address, this is almost true. I use my mother and fathers address for a local US address although I get NO mail there. Anything that is sent there is considered junk mail and discarded. I am a resident of Poland and have a Polish mailing address. Please, if she mails anything to have her mail it to: ul Rymarska 4, 64-920 Pila, Poland.
Once again, I really look forward to working things out and working together. Please do not 'fear' me stealing your idea.
Sincerely
Doug Montgomery
bfilip@gtpp.com
cc "rncote@netscape.com" <RNCote@netscape.com>
date Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 22:16
subject Finger Slides
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details 07/08/2008
Beth,
I wanted to touch basis again and let you know that I tried to contact
Nancy all last evening. I left her a message on her voice mail and
sent her an email. I tried again to contact her just now and have had
no luck. Any ideas on how to get a hold of her? Maybe she's out of
town? I'm not sure and I do not want this to 'stew' on her. I really
want to get things cleared up. I'll be investing a lot of money into
this also and I do not want to buy this material and attempt to make
arrangements with distributors and pro's over here if there is going
to be a problem for her over there. As I mentioned, I'm not into
'stealing' ideas.
I'm working on getting my "ducks in a row" here to produce several
thousand at once. The only thing I'm waiting on now, before buying
material, is talking again with Nancy.
Please keep me posted.
Regards,
Doug Montgomery
PS. I've attached a screen shot of the website analytics so Nancy
believes that it hasn't had any traffic. Nothings been made or sold
here.
PSS. Nancy, I went ahead and sent this since I know you are checking
emails and I want everything extremely clear. On a different note, I
hope you will clear things up with Matt. I don't want this affecting
my relationship with him as I've don't believe I've done anything out
of line.
Below is a copy of the email in it's entirety Matt sent me in reply to
my request about getting a write up on our products...
<matt@omnibilia.com>
reply-to matt@omnibilia.com
to Doug@pocketchalker.co.uk
date Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 16:11
subject Re: Euro Pocket Chalker Series
Hi, Doug. I apologize for the delay.
Another week, finally helping granny move. Other than the water heater
breaking and the need for a new A/C unit, all is well!
I apologize for frustrating you. I set stories to auto-run in my absence.
I'd like to do a thorough write-up of your items, but Nancy Cote just
sent me a note, which I found disturbing. I thought you said you were
working in harmony with her. Please advise?
She wrote in part:
Matt,
I plan on ordering your book soon from Barnes & Noble. Looking forward
to all the great advice on playing pool!!
I just wanted to let you know that a gentleman by the name of Douglas
F.Montgomery in Poland has decided to copy my FingerSlides "UnGlove"
and sell them. So basically they're "KNOCK-OFFS". He has a website:
www.fingerslides.com
. He has copied my customer reviews and is using
your items from about.com
. Cue-Z (TM) & FingerSlides (TM) are
trademarks with my company. I am currently working with my Patent
Lawyers to resolve this "KNOCK-OFF" problem. Wish me luck!!!
Nancy
cc "rncote@netscape.com" <RNCote@netscape.com>
date Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 22:16
subject Finger Slides
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details 07/08/2008
Beth,
I wanted to touch basis again and let you know that I tried to contact
Nancy all last evening. I left her a message on her voice mail and
sent her an email. I tried again to contact her just now and have had
no luck. Any ideas on how to get a hold of her? Maybe she's out of
town? I'm not sure and I do not want this to 'stew' on her. I really
want to get things cleared up. I'll be investing a lot of money into
this also and I do not want to buy this material and attempt to make
arrangements with distributors and pro's over here if there is going
to be a problem for her over there. As I mentioned, I'm not into
'stealing' ideas.
I'm working on getting my "ducks in a row" here to produce several
thousand at once. The only thing I'm waiting on now, before buying
material, is talking again with Nancy.
Please keep me posted.
Regards,
Doug Montgomery
PS. I've attached a screen shot of the website analytics so Nancy
believes that it hasn't had any traffic. Nothings been made or sold
here.
PSS. Nancy, I went ahead and sent this since I know you are checking
emails and I want everything extremely clear. On a different note, I
hope you will clear things up with Matt. I don't want this affecting
my relationship with him as I've don't believe I've done anything out
of line.
Below is a copy of the email in it's entirety Matt sent me in reply to
my request about getting a write up on our products...
<matt@omnibilia.com>
reply-to matt@omnibilia.com
to Doug@pocketchalker.co.uk
date Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 16:11
subject Re: Euro Pocket Chalker Series
Hi, Doug. I apologize for the delay.
Another week, finally helping granny move. Other than the water heater
breaking and the need for a new A/C unit, all is well!
I apologize for frustrating you. I set stories to auto-run in my absence.
I'd like to do a thorough write-up of your items, but Nancy Cote just
sent me a note, which I found disturbing. I thought you said you were
working in harmony with her. Please advise?
She wrote in part:
Matt,
I plan on ordering your book soon from Barnes & Noble. Looking forward
to all the great advice on playing pool!!
I just wanted to let you know that a gentleman by the name of Douglas
F.Montgomery in Poland has decided to copy my FingerSlides "UnGlove"
and sell them. So basically they're "KNOCK-OFFS". He has a website:
www.fingerslides.com
. He has copied my customer reviews and is using
your items from about.com
. Cue-Z (TM) & FingerSlides (TM) are
trademarks with my company. I am currently working with my Patent
Lawyers to resolve this "KNOCK-OFF" problem. Wish me luck!!!
Nancy
rncote@netscape.com
to Doug Montgomery Euro Pocket Chalker <Dougm1966@gmail.com>
date Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 20:21
subject Some Answers
hide details 12/11/2008
What I Don't Like:
1.Use of my customer reviews on your sites without my permission.
2.Offering lifetime guarantee without my permission.
3.Changing original design of FingerSlides without my permission.
What you need to do:
1.Stop using my customer reviews.
2.No lifetime guarantee, 6 months tops, after "Legal Agreement" is finalized.
3.You need to mail me a written proposal. Include "Royalties Offer" and an offer amount for the cost of this legal agreement to drawn up by a Business Attorney. I will then send you a written counter offer etc.
5.Stop setting up sites and etc. without informing me first with an e-mail. I need to approve it first not after.
6.Basically NO MORE SURPRISES! If you want me to work with you, you must more forward in a respectable business-like manner.
Send written proposal to:
Nancy Cote
514 South Main Street
Manchester, NH 03102
to Doug Montgomery Euro Pocket Chalker <Dougm1966@gmail.com>
date Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 20:21
subject Some Answers
hide details 12/11/2008
What I Don't Like:
1.Use of my customer reviews on your sites without my permission.
2.Offering lifetime guarantee without my permission.
3.Changing original design of FingerSlides without my permission.
What you need to do:
1.Stop using my customer reviews.
2.No lifetime guarantee, 6 months tops, after "Legal Agreement" is finalized.
3.You need to mail me a written proposal. Include "Royalties Offer" and an offer amount for the cost of this legal agreement to drawn up by a Business Attorney. I will then send you a written counter offer etc.
5.Stop setting up sites and etc. without informing me first with an e-mail. I need to approve it first not after.
6.Basically NO MORE SURPRISES! If you want me to work with you, you must more forward in a respectable business-like manner.
Send written proposal to:
Nancy Cote
514 South Main Street
Manchester, NH 03102
Last edited:
Sweet Marissa
www.Bella-Muse.com
In the first post of this thread, Nancy links to a thread that PocketChalker started regarding this whole mess. He later went and edited all his posts. Thankfully, most of them were quoted to reveal that PocketChalker did, in fact, threaten Nancy, saying that if she failed to create a partnership with him, he was going to go ahead and steal her design and sell it.
So... what's confusing about that?
So... what's confusing about that?
Attachments
Douglas Montgomery <Doug@pocketchalker.co.uk>
to rncote@netscape.com
date Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 23:42
subject Re: Some Answers
mailed-by gmail.com
Images from this sender are always displayed. Don't display from now on.
hide details 12/11/2008
Nancy,
I am so glad you wrote. I still don't understand how things got so messed up. I wish you had sent me an email or contacted me with these concerns before it got out of hand. With that, let's try to clear this up and move forward...
Let me reiterate that I have not, as I have mentioned many times before, made or sold any of these. I'm a man of my word. We are in the process of putting some together and I will send them to you for your approval and I hope we can get things rolling. Hopefully I will be able to get some in the mail to you tomorrow. I was going to meet with the seamstresses today but the girl in charge of the project was out ill. She's suppose to be back tomorrow. I will be able to work with her for a couple of hours in the morning and then I have to leave because I have another appointment at 11 that will take all day. I will try to get you some in the mail before the end of the week.
Let me address each of your concerns one by one and see if we can't resolve them amicably. Please do not take anything out of context and if you read any bad emotions into any of this, Please give me the benefit of the doubt and let's 'talk' about each one. I really hate to communicate solely in writing because so much can be taken out of context and meaning can be lost. My intentions are totally honarable and always have been.
1. Using your customer reviews - I can and will stop using them immediately, if that is what you really want. I would hope that you would reconsider this since anything I sell you will benefit and profit from also. Plus anyone who comes to the site from the US will be your customer.
2. Lifetime guarantee - If I remember correctly, that was your original offer. If not, I apologize. I honestly thought that's what you originally had. I do know that on your web blog at the moment it is 6months. The product listing has been removed and I don't see anywhere else on the site where it shows any kind of guarantee.
3. The original design - As I mentioned, we haven't made any of these or sold any. The design change was a recommendation from a European Pro and it sounded good to us. The change is simply using a 3mm foam on the thumb to have a better feel of the cue on an open bridge. Please don't discount this until you see what we've come up with. I do respect your design. It may not appear that way, I'm sorry. I will send you some made to your specs and some made with this thinner material. You just may like it. Then again, you may not. We won't know till you see it.
What I need to do...
1. Stop using your customer reviews - As I mentioned above, I would hope that you'd reconsider this.
2. Guarantee - Also mentioned above
3. Written proposal - There are many many factors to include in a written proposal. Many things that you and I don't even think about because we (or at least I) do not have experience in this area. Territorial rights, promotional rights, trade mark use, design modifications such as aesthetics(like the color strip you are putting on yours), sponsorship by pro players...many many issues. Before I can do a write up, we need to talk on the phone so we can 'get on the same page'. After a phone conversation discussing all these little details, then I would have an idea of what to write in a proposal. Hopefully we can do this soon. I could make it simple, if you'd like...something along the lines of "anything I sell you get 10%, wholesale or retail. I won't sell to North America, you won't sell to Europe" and call it at that but I'm not sure that's good for either one of us. There needs to be more detail as to how 'we' want to market this. How we can "work together" and "we" can get the most exposure. Attorney costs of creating a written proposal...I don't know what they are. I also want to say that I don't believe it is a cost that I alone should bare. Once again, something that we should discuss on the phone. This is going to be beneficial for 'both' of us. Also, I wouldn't mind one bit if it was a conference call with your attorney. I can call her directly from Skype, she can call you and patch us in on a 3-way call.
4. Stop setting up sites - It appears that you think I'm benefiting from setting up site(s). Just as I told you, and you've seen, I created that one page...the original with a link back to your site and a place where people could sign up for a newsletter. Yes, there was a link on there where people could prepay, but the moment you asked about it..I pulled it. That very day. The current web page, I have been working on for 'maybe' 3 weeks now. I don't remember exactly. Yes, there was a product listed but was on there for maybe a week, no more than 2.
In regards to the websites... I get this feeling that you may think that once a website is online that it all of a sudden gets many visitors...I only get that feeling because of the way you cut off communications with me when I told you hadn't had any interest or pre-sold any. It's really not that way at all. This new website hasn't had anyone but you look at it that I'm aware of. I can't tell you for sure because there is no analytics set up on it yet, as I mentioned, It's a new web design program for me and I'm learning. No one has signed up for anything or tried to buy anything. At the moment it is in a sub domain of the Fingerslides website but it will eventually be moved to PocketChalker.com and be my primary site. You will benefit from both the new Fingerslides domain and my domain which does get some traffic.
As for your approval of "my" site...(Please, don't get all excited and take that/this out of context). I will keep make sure that there is no misrepresentation of 'your' product. There will always be a reference back to your blog site and you will always get "Full credit and acknowledgment' for your product. Something to consider, if I told all my wholesale distributors how to develop their site and told them that they had to wait for my approval before selling my product, I'd never get any business. Just as I can not tell PoolDawg or CueStix International how to set up their site, I would hope that you wouldn't want to control my site marketing your product. Once again...This is best discussed over the phone and then we can put in all the fine details in a written agreement.
6. No more surprises - I don't want to end this on a negative note and I agree, no more surprises. I was quite shocked to see the email from Matt Sherman. I called you the minute I had registered the domains, told you what I was going to do and then a few weeks later you asked how many people had pre-ordered. I sent you an email letting you know the exact traffic that had been to the site and no pre-orders had been placed and then a few days later I get a shocking email from Matt Sherman.
As for respect, I agree. I feel I have respected you 100%. I registered the domain, built a simple page that linked back to your page, paid for the hosting and have given you credit for everything. This is why I don't understand why you started to feel threatened. These things that you have mentioned, I didn't know that they bothered you. You never mentioned it until this very moment, which I'm glad you have.
Once again Nancy, I do want to do this agreement. I have never said I didn't, as you posted in a blog. I do want to give you credit and help you prosper from this new product.
I will say this though...according to international law you do not have any 'legal rights' over here, unless of course you've filed a patent in every country in the European Union. I told you I wouldn't sell them to the US market, and I won't no matter what happens between us because I told you I wouldn't. If you haven't read the front page of the site I'm working on, it says right on the front page that we won't sell to anyone in the US except you and there is a direct link to your blog.
You do however have what I call 'moral rights'. As I have told you from the very beginning, you created it, you'll get paid for it. Now 'we' need to work out the details.
Please try not to be defensive...please. You don't have to defend yourself from me. Also, please don't refer to me stealing Jessie Nesters pocketchalker. You should then accuse Joe Porper, Ken and Anna of "Chalkies by Ken' and Tip-Pik for stealing her idea. That item has been duplicated so many times in the last 10 years that it's unreal. The trademark...Here are 2 links for her trademark...or lack of trademark
The first registration of the trademark
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=doc&state=jrd80s.4.2
April 12, 1999 - April 7, 2000
The second registration
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=doc&state=jrd80s.4.1
April 22, 2003 - March 23, 2004
As for Fingerslides...Yes, you have a trademark. I'd post the link to the search I did but it appears that the site is experiencing over load. I searched it and saw that you applied for it in June(or July, I don't remember right off hand). If the links don't work when you try them you'll just have to try another time. They're not being to friendly at the moment, they don't want to seem to load.
What it really boils down to Nancy is that we really need to have a heart to heart talk about exactly what you want to do with your product there, and what I want to do with it here and put something together that works for both of us.
Please accept a phone call from me. Let's bury this thing on AZB and the blogs. Let's work out an arrangement that works for both of us. Let's work out the accounting details. Let's put this together.
I don't know what else to say other than I'm sorry this got ugly and I hope it can get real pretty, real soon.
Sincerely
Doug Montgomery
to rncote@netscape.com
date Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 23:42
subject Re: Some Answers
mailed-by gmail.com
Images from this sender are always displayed. Don't display from now on.
hide details 12/11/2008
Nancy,
I am so glad you wrote. I still don't understand how things got so messed up. I wish you had sent me an email or contacted me with these concerns before it got out of hand. With that, let's try to clear this up and move forward...
Let me reiterate that I have not, as I have mentioned many times before, made or sold any of these. I'm a man of my word. We are in the process of putting some together and I will send them to you for your approval and I hope we can get things rolling. Hopefully I will be able to get some in the mail to you tomorrow. I was going to meet with the seamstresses today but the girl in charge of the project was out ill. She's suppose to be back tomorrow. I will be able to work with her for a couple of hours in the morning and then I have to leave because I have another appointment at 11 that will take all day. I will try to get you some in the mail before the end of the week.
Let me address each of your concerns one by one and see if we can't resolve them amicably. Please do not take anything out of context and if you read any bad emotions into any of this, Please give me the benefit of the doubt and let's 'talk' about each one. I really hate to communicate solely in writing because so much can be taken out of context and meaning can be lost. My intentions are totally honarable and always have been.
1. Using your customer reviews - I can and will stop using them immediately, if that is what you really want. I would hope that you would reconsider this since anything I sell you will benefit and profit from also. Plus anyone who comes to the site from the US will be your customer.
2. Lifetime guarantee - If I remember correctly, that was your original offer. If not, I apologize. I honestly thought that's what you originally had. I do know that on your web blog at the moment it is 6months. The product listing has been removed and I don't see anywhere else on the site where it shows any kind of guarantee.
3. The original design - As I mentioned, we haven't made any of these or sold any. The design change was a recommendation from a European Pro and it sounded good to us. The change is simply using a 3mm foam on the thumb to have a better feel of the cue on an open bridge. Please don't discount this until you see what we've come up with. I do respect your design. It may not appear that way, I'm sorry. I will send you some made to your specs and some made with this thinner material. You just may like it. Then again, you may not. We won't know till you see it.
What I need to do...
1. Stop using your customer reviews - As I mentioned above, I would hope that you'd reconsider this.
2. Guarantee - Also mentioned above
3. Written proposal - There are many many factors to include in a written proposal. Many things that you and I don't even think about because we (or at least I) do not have experience in this area. Territorial rights, promotional rights, trade mark use, design modifications such as aesthetics(like the color strip you are putting on yours), sponsorship by pro players...many many issues. Before I can do a write up, we need to talk on the phone so we can 'get on the same page'. After a phone conversation discussing all these little details, then I would have an idea of what to write in a proposal. Hopefully we can do this soon. I could make it simple, if you'd like...something along the lines of "anything I sell you get 10%, wholesale or retail. I won't sell to North America, you won't sell to Europe" and call it at that but I'm not sure that's good for either one of us. There needs to be more detail as to how 'we' want to market this. How we can "work together" and "we" can get the most exposure. Attorney costs of creating a written proposal...I don't know what they are. I also want to say that I don't believe it is a cost that I alone should bare. Once again, something that we should discuss on the phone. This is going to be beneficial for 'both' of us. Also, I wouldn't mind one bit if it was a conference call with your attorney. I can call her directly from Skype, she can call you and patch us in on a 3-way call.
4. Stop setting up sites - It appears that you think I'm benefiting from setting up site(s). Just as I told you, and you've seen, I created that one page...the original with a link back to your site and a place where people could sign up for a newsletter. Yes, there was a link on there where people could prepay, but the moment you asked about it..I pulled it. That very day. The current web page, I have been working on for 'maybe' 3 weeks now. I don't remember exactly. Yes, there was a product listed but was on there for maybe a week, no more than 2.
In regards to the websites... I get this feeling that you may think that once a website is online that it all of a sudden gets many visitors...I only get that feeling because of the way you cut off communications with me when I told you hadn't had any interest or pre-sold any. It's really not that way at all. This new website hasn't had anyone but you look at it that I'm aware of. I can't tell you for sure because there is no analytics set up on it yet, as I mentioned, It's a new web design program for me and I'm learning. No one has signed up for anything or tried to buy anything. At the moment it is in a sub domain of the Fingerslides website but it will eventually be moved to PocketChalker.com and be my primary site. You will benefit from both the new Fingerslides domain and my domain which does get some traffic.
As for your approval of "my" site...(Please, don't get all excited and take that/this out of context). I will keep make sure that there is no misrepresentation of 'your' product. There will always be a reference back to your blog site and you will always get "Full credit and acknowledgment' for your product. Something to consider, if I told all my wholesale distributors how to develop their site and told them that they had to wait for my approval before selling my product, I'd never get any business. Just as I can not tell PoolDawg or CueStix International how to set up their site, I would hope that you wouldn't want to control my site marketing your product. Once again...This is best discussed over the phone and then we can put in all the fine details in a written agreement.
6. No more surprises - I don't want to end this on a negative note and I agree, no more surprises. I was quite shocked to see the email from Matt Sherman. I called you the minute I had registered the domains, told you what I was going to do and then a few weeks later you asked how many people had pre-ordered. I sent you an email letting you know the exact traffic that had been to the site and no pre-orders had been placed and then a few days later I get a shocking email from Matt Sherman.
As for respect, I agree. I feel I have respected you 100%. I registered the domain, built a simple page that linked back to your page, paid for the hosting and have given you credit for everything. This is why I don't understand why you started to feel threatened. These things that you have mentioned, I didn't know that they bothered you. You never mentioned it until this very moment, which I'm glad you have.
Once again Nancy, I do want to do this agreement. I have never said I didn't, as you posted in a blog. I do want to give you credit and help you prosper from this new product.
I will say this though...according to international law you do not have any 'legal rights' over here, unless of course you've filed a patent in every country in the European Union. I told you I wouldn't sell them to the US market, and I won't no matter what happens between us because I told you I wouldn't. If you haven't read the front page of the site I'm working on, it says right on the front page that we won't sell to anyone in the US except you and there is a direct link to your blog.
You do however have what I call 'moral rights'. As I have told you from the very beginning, you created it, you'll get paid for it. Now 'we' need to work out the details.
Please try not to be defensive...please. You don't have to defend yourself from me. Also, please don't refer to me stealing Jessie Nesters pocketchalker. You should then accuse Joe Porper, Ken and Anna of "Chalkies by Ken' and Tip-Pik for stealing her idea. That item has been duplicated so many times in the last 10 years that it's unreal. The trademark...Here are 2 links for her trademark...or lack of trademark
The first registration of the trademark
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=doc&state=jrd80s.4.2
April 12, 1999 - April 7, 2000
The second registration
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=doc&state=jrd80s.4.1
April 22, 2003 - March 23, 2004
As for Fingerslides...Yes, you have a trademark. I'd post the link to the search I did but it appears that the site is experiencing over load. I searched it and saw that you applied for it in June(or July, I don't remember right off hand). If the links don't work when you try them you'll just have to try another time. They're not being to friendly at the moment, they don't want to seem to load.
What it really boils down to Nancy is that we really need to have a heart to heart talk about exactly what you want to do with your product there, and what I want to do with it here and put something together that works for both of us.
Please accept a phone call from me. Let's bury this thing on AZB and the blogs. Let's work out an arrangement that works for both of us. Let's work out the accounting details. Let's put this together.
I don't know what else to say other than I'm sorry this got ugly and I hope it can get real pretty, real soon.
Sincerely
Doug Montgomery
rncote@netscape.com
to Douglas Montgomery <Doug@pocketchalker.co.uk>
date Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 21:41
subject Re: Some Answers
hide details 13/11/2008
Doug,
Just send me what you're offering and what you're expecting in return. Some sort of non-binding "Term Sheet". If you want to just e-mail it to me, fine. I just ask you keep it short and to the point. We'll go from there.
Nancy
to Douglas Montgomery <Doug@pocketchalker.co.uk>
date Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 21:41
subject Re: Some Answers
hide details 13/11/2008
Doug,
Just send me what you're offering and what you're expecting in return. Some sort of non-binding "Term Sheet". If you want to just e-mail it to me, fine. I just ask you keep it short and to the point. We'll go from there.
Nancy
Nancy,
I can do that. Give me through the weekend to try to put solid ideas together and I'll contact you first of the week. I would however like to plan a time when we can talk on the phone about it. Maybe set a date and time where when I send it we get on the phone. I really would like keep things clear. I am 6 hours ahead of you. I'm available most evening my time. I do however teach between 5-7pm. The safest time for me would be before 10:30 am your time or after 2pm your time. I'm generally up till at least midnight.
I did notice that you changed your blog. I would like to ask that you change the wording on your website a little more. It really does have a negative connotation and I'm expressing directly on the front page of my website that I do not export to the US and directing people to you...."seized by U.S. Customs and destroyed." ?
That would be best for bot of us.
I'd also like to make peace in the forums. We both have a reputation there and we surely don't want to damage the reputation we've spent so much time building. The sooner we put it out there that we're working on it, the best for both of us it would be.
Also, that other blog...Please remove it.
That's never been the case and I think we'll come to some sort of agreement.
Once again Nancy, I'm glad you contacted me. It looks like I'll be able to get a package to you in the mail on Saturday.
Regards,
Doug
I can do that. Give me through the weekend to try to put solid ideas together and I'll contact you first of the week. I would however like to plan a time when we can talk on the phone about it. Maybe set a date and time where when I send it we get on the phone. I really would like keep things clear. I am 6 hours ahead of you. I'm available most evening my time. I do however teach between 5-7pm. The safest time for me would be before 10:30 am your time or after 2pm your time. I'm generally up till at least midnight.
I did notice that you changed your blog. I would like to ask that you change the wording on your website a little more. It really does have a negative connotation and I'm expressing directly on the front page of my website that I do not export to the US and directing people to you...."seized by U.S. Customs and destroyed." ?
That would be best for bot of us.
I'd also like to make peace in the forums. We both have a reputation there and we surely don't want to damage the reputation we've spent so much time building. The sooner we put it out there that we're working on it, the best for both of us it would be.
Also, that other blog...Please remove it.
That's never been the case and I think we'll come to some sort of agreement.
Once again Nancy, I'm glad you contacted me. It looks like I'll be able to get a package to you in the mail on Saturday.
Regards,
Doug
Douglas Montgomery <Doug@pocketchalker.co.uk>
to rncote@netscape.com
date Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 19:10
subject Proposal
mailed-by gmail.com
Images from this sender are always displayed. Don't display from now on.
hide details 16/11/2008
(Below also attached in pdf and .doc format)
11/16/08
Dear Nancy,
I'm really glad we're working on this again. I look forward to a long prosperous relationship and I'm open to any and all disussion so that we can work cooperatively to take this product above and beyond.
Below I've outlined some things that are at the forefront of my thoughts although I've probably forgotten many important things, my suggestion is that if anything beyond these come up in the future that we simply leave them open to discussion.
Markets:
What I'm proposing is that we, "EuroPocketChalker" make and distribute fingerslides for the European market. And that you obviously retain the US market. Any markets outside of those we could simply leave open to either of us. I think that is the best way to simplify markets. I will however suggest that we both stay out of the Asian markets.
Internet Marketing:
The domain name is obviously something I don't want to place a 'claim' on. Shortly after we started talking I registered the domain names as you know. These domain names are obviously beneficial for both of us.
Recently I have been working tirelessly on building a website that promotes EuroPocketChalker AND FingerSlides and I pay for the hosting, so I will continue. It has been under a subdomain of Fingerslides during construction, as you know, but it will eventually be moved to PocketChalker.com. Then all my domains will forward there including the Fingerslide domains.
With that in mind, credit for inventing Fingerslide and a direct link back to your site for US purchases will be on the front page similar to as it is now. I'm sure it will change but something along those lines. You'll always receive credit and there will always be a link back to you. Also, any ideas you may have for the site pertaining to Fingerslides I will do my best to build into the site. If you want to write up an about me page to incorporate I'd be very happy to build that page for you.
Managing communication and sales history:
This is a tough one, I'm not sure exactly how to do this. I have a few ideas but just not sure. I obviously can't send you copies of all my invoices. They have a lot of other info on them that isn't necessary or that I shouldn't be giving out. I could also seperate invoices between the products but there are 2 senarious to that...
1.
If I kept them in the same accounting system, you still wouldn't know if I 'skippped' a number and didn't send you one. Not that I would, I've been totally upfront about all this and I think you should be paid for a great idea.
2.
I set up a totally different invoicing system where you could see continuous numbering. 3 problems there...then my accountant would have 3 differerent systems to track(we use 2 for EPC, one for US and one for EU). Plus, now the client has extra invoices and 3rd, it costs money for the system and the accountant.
Another accounting situation is, I will introduce them on Ebay.co.uk
. I'll set it up so they won't be able to be purchased in the US from there so that's not something to worry about. From the listings you can monitor sales and sort of see what's happening but it's not very efficient, obviously.
The only solution I can think of is for me to create a nice form and fill it out with every sale, wholesale, website and Ebay. Marking it in detail as to where a sale came from and what it was. If you have some ideas on how to manage this, throw them out there.
At some point in time, as I learn how things work, I will try to seperate the databases so that if someone buys them on the website you'll be notified also. I have no idea when or if that will every be implimented. I honestly have no real idea of what I'm doing when it comes to making some of the functionalities work. Some of it is very easy but then some of it is really complicated for me. I'm learning everyday and at the moment I'm almost at a standstill because I'm having some problems I can't figure out. I spend most of my days reading and learning how to do what I'm doing.
Pricing:
The European market is much different the the US market. For example, although pocket chalkers have an msrp of $19.99 in US, here in Europe msrp for pocket chalkers is 8.99Euro. Or about $11.40. (at todays conversion rate) Retractables in the US-$12.99, EU-7.99Euro($10.00) Retractables are much more popular here in Europe. It all has to do with the customary european "aproach" to the table. They've been using pouches all their lives and the retractable maintains their hand motions and approach. To much detail I know, but I thought I'd let you in on the culture and trends we've seen in the last 2 years. On that note, gloves have only been being used here for a few years. The pro we are giong to be working with started using one 3 yrs ago and, as he put it, "I've seen a trend towards the glove since I started using one. It hasn't been so poplular. Now that it's becoming that way I'd like to endorse one." (more on that later)
They will be sold in 2 different currencies over here. Wholesale pricing is figured in Euro's as that is what everyone uses here. Ebay.co.uk
pricing is in British Pounds. Here's a breakdown of how it looks...
MSRP = 9.99Euro or about 8.50GBP
We will only do ebay from time to time because my focus is larger wholesale. I'll do it to introduce the product like I did when I started my EuroPocketChalker.
To start out, our Ebay.co.uk
price will be 6.99GBP. If the demand requires, I'll raise this to 7.99. Our clients are only allowed advertise a 20% less than msrp. That is basically how Ebay pricing is set. The normal gloves currently sell for around 5GBP including shipping with 3Packs sell for 6.88GBP including shipping.
Our 6.99GBP will include shipping.
As for wholesale pricing, I haven't set that as of yet. It will probably look something like 3 or 4 Euro's depending on how many they want. (Currently pocket chalkers (msrp 8.99) have a best price(96pcs) of 3.50.) These prices include a 22% vat tax. More on that later.
The price will be obviously be lower for larger orders such as 500-1000 pieces. We do have 2 firms that (if they decide to take them on as a product) will buy that kind of quantity. I don't know when or if they will make that purchase but I feel pretty strongly as they have bought that many of our other products. It depends on catalogs and the time of the year. Currently everyone has a new 2yr catalog out so these sales may or maynot happen anytime soon. As you know, it hasn't been exposed to them. I have exposed it to a few select clients for feedback. Some has been positive and some has been 'constructive'.
Manufacturing:
The shape of the glove is perfect and exactly what Fingerslides are all about, providing a smooth, stable stroke without completely covering your hand. Covering only your three fingers. You are currently using a 4mm foam. This has proven to be the perfect solution for you and is working well.
On the other hand, here in Europe people have a tendancy to want things 'minimal' and classy. (With your idea we've got classy covered) When I sent the glove to the man in Europe who wants to endorse it he showed it to 5 or 6 other pros. Many of them tried it and all really liked the idea but said that it was a little to thick. They said that in a closed bridge it was fantastic but in an open bridge they couldn't feel the cue. They also said that as it is, they wouldn't use it simply for this reason. For this reason only did I makde the modifications. I hope you can understand.
I am sending you one of each size made the way you make them. 4mm on all fingers. I am also sending you the same with 3mm on the thumb. Please let me know what you think when you get them. I will probably also make one with 3.5 on the index and middle finger and 2.5mm or 3mm on the thumb to see how it turns out. I hope you can accept these modifications as they are what is suited for this market. Material and sewing quality will obviously be of the highest standars as you'll see from the samples. I really hope you don't find this offensive. I had made and sold 500 pocket chalkers only to find out I had to make a couple of major logistical changes. I think this is normal with new products. Your samples will be in the mail on Monday.
Sizes...If the sizes we came up with are a little off from what you are putting together it would be nice to have a little help. We've done our best and have tried and worked through many many trial and errors trying to get it correct. We've created forms to produce the sizes and if they are off a little based on your experience it would be nice to know the exact measurements. If you don't want to tell us, for whatever reason, these are the sizes we will be using.
Trademarks and logos:
At this point in time, that is up to you. You own the trademarks and I don't want to 'step on toes'. I would hope that you would allow the use of the trademarks. I won't mess with your logo unless you want it on the site. There again, I would think that is something you'd want.
Compensation:
We spoke of 10% on the phone. In general, I agree with this. All our 'listed' prices have to include 22%vat. I will pay you 10% on all wholesale and retail sales, after vat is deducted. With one exception, orders over 250 pieces requires extra negotionations and the wholesale sales price and profit margin drops drastically. These are to dealers who dristibute to the wholesalers. One company has over 350 wholesalers worldwide. On these sales where negotiation of lower prices take place I will pay you 5%. My thought is to communicate with you on a monthly basis as to what's happened and how many if any have been sold. Currently the market is slow as is everywhere so I do not have any idea how this will be received and how fast people will pick up on it.
As soon as we come to terms I plan on sending samples to all my European clients. Some might order a dozen, some may order 24 and then some may order 48's. Then again no one may order any right away. At the same time, one or 2 of the companies may want 500 or 1000. I just don't know. (once again...the bigger distributors have a new 2yr catalog out so these sales may or maynot happen anytime soon or in the volumes anticipated..)
Then there's the production time. We're on a roll to make a few hundred next week and test the water. We've got material to make about 3000. How soon we'll actually need them is unknown. We can make, I'm guessing 2-300 a day. Maybe more. The lead seamstress and I just got things really put together on Friday, just in time to send you samples as this is all coming together. I'm not sure exactly how many people they will put on the project. There are 7 or 8 seamstresses although they are all working on different projects. I don't plan on making them all at once so it will be worked in with projects as they are needed.
Doug
to rncote@netscape.com
date Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 19:10
subject Proposal
mailed-by gmail.com
Images from this sender are always displayed. Don't display from now on.
hide details 16/11/2008
(Below also attached in pdf and .doc format)
11/16/08
Dear Nancy,
I'm really glad we're working on this again. I look forward to a long prosperous relationship and I'm open to any and all disussion so that we can work cooperatively to take this product above and beyond.
Below I've outlined some things that are at the forefront of my thoughts although I've probably forgotten many important things, my suggestion is that if anything beyond these come up in the future that we simply leave them open to discussion.
Markets:
What I'm proposing is that we, "EuroPocketChalker" make and distribute fingerslides for the European market. And that you obviously retain the US market. Any markets outside of those we could simply leave open to either of us. I think that is the best way to simplify markets. I will however suggest that we both stay out of the Asian markets.
Internet Marketing:
The domain name is obviously something I don't want to place a 'claim' on. Shortly after we started talking I registered the domain names as you know. These domain names are obviously beneficial for both of us.
Recently I have been working tirelessly on building a website that promotes EuroPocketChalker AND FingerSlides and I pay for the hosting, so I will continue. It has been under a subdomain of Fingerslides during construction, as you know, but it will eventually be moved to PocketChalker.com. Then all my domains will forward there including the Fingerslide domains.
With that in mind, credit for inventing Fingerslide and a direct link back to your site for US purchases will be on the front page similar to as it is now. I'm sure it will change but something along those lines. You'll always receive credit and there will always be a link back to you. Also, any ideas you may have for the site pertaining to Fingerslides I will do my best to build into the site. If you want to write up an about me page to incorporate I'd be very happy to build that page for you.
Managing communication and sales history:
This is a tough one, I'm not sure exactly how to do this. I have a few ideas but just not sure. I obviously can't send you copies of all my invoices. They have a lot of other info on them that isn't necessary or that I shouldn't be giving out. I could also seperate invoices between the products but there are 2 senarious to that...
1.
If I kept them in the same accounting system, you still wouldn't know if I 'skippped' a number and didn't send you one. Not that I would, I've been totally upfront about all this and I think you should be paid for a great idea.
2.
I set up a totally different invoicing system where you could see continuous numbering. 3 problems there...then my accountant would have 3 differerent systems to track(we use 2 for EPC, one for US and one for EU). Plus, now the client has extra invoices and 3rd, it costs money for the system and the accountant.
Another accounting situation is, I will introduce them on Ebay.co.uk
. I'll set it up so they won't be able to be purchased in the US from there so that's not something to worry about. From the listings you can monitor sales and sort of see what's happening but it's not very efficient, obviously.
The only solution I can think of is for me to create a nice form and fill it out with every sale, wholesale, website and Ebay. Marking it in detail as to where a sale came from and what it was. If you have some ideas on how to manage this, throw them out there.
At some point in time, as I learn how things work, I will try to seperate the databases so that if someone buys them on the website you'll be notified also. I have no idea when or if that will every be implimented. I honestly have no real idea of what I'm doing when it comes to making some of the functionalities work. Some of it is very easy but then some of it is really complicated for me. I'm learning everyday and at the moment I'm almost at a standstill because I'm having some problems I can't figure out. I spend most of my days reading and learning how to do what I'm doing.
Pricing:
The European market is much different the the US market. For example, although pocket chalkers have an msrp of $19.99 in US, here in Europe msrp for pocket chalkers is 8.99Euro. Or about $11.40. (at todays conversion rate) Retractables in the US-$12.99, EU-7.99Euro($10.00) Retractables are much more popular here in Europe. It all has to do with the customary european "aproach" to the table. They've been using pouches all their lives and the retractable maintains their hand motions and approach. To much detail I know, but I thought I'd let you in on the culture and trends we've seen in the last 2 years. On that note, gloves have only been being used here for a few years. The pro we are giong to be working with started using one 3 yrs ago and, as he put it, "I've seen a trend towards the glove since I started using one. It hasn't been so poplular. Now that it's becoming that way I'd like to endorse one." (more on that later)
They will be sold in 2 different currencies over here. Wholesale pricing is figured in Euro's as that is what everyone uses here. Ebay.co.uk
pricing is in British Pounds. Here's a breakdown of how it looks...
MSRP = 9.99Euro or about 8.50GBP
We will only do ebay from time to time because my focus is larger wholesale. I'll do it to introduce the product like I did when I started my EuroPocketChalker.
To start out, our Ebay.co.uk
price will be 6.99GBP. If the demand requires, I'll raise this to 7.99. Our clients are only allowed advertise a 20% less than msrp. That is basically how Ebay pricing is set. The normal gloves currently sell for around 5GBP including shipping with 3Packs sell for 6.88GBP including shipping.
Our 6.99GBP will include shipping.
As for wholesale pricing, I haven't set that as of yet. It will probably look something like 3 or 4 Euro's depending on how many they want. (Currently pocket chalkers (msrp 8.99) have a best price(96pcs) of 3.50.) These prices include a 22% vat tax. More on that later.
The price will be obviously be lower for larger orders such as 500-1000 pieces. We do have 2 firms that (if they decide to take them on as a product) will buy that kind of quantity. I don't know when or if they will make that purchase but I feel pretty strongly as they have bought that many of our other products. It depends on catalogs and the time of the year. Currently everyone has a new 2yr catalog out so these sales may or maynot happen anytime soon. As you know, it hasn't been exposed to them. I have exposed it to a few select clients for feedback. Some has been positive and some has been 'constructive'.
Manufacturing:
The shape of the glove is perfect and exactly what Fingerslides are all about, providing a smooth, stable stroke without completely covering your hand. Covering only your three fingers. You are currently using a 4mm foam. This has proven to be the perfect solution for you and is working well.
On the other hand, here in Europe people have a tendancy to want things 'minimal' and classy. (With your idea we've got classy covered) When I sent the glove to the man in Europe who wants to endorse it he showed it to 5 or 6 other pros. Many of them tried it and all really liked the idea but said that it was a little to thick. They said that in a closed bridge it was fantastic but in an open bridge they couldn't feel the cue. They also said that as it is, they wouldn't use it simply for this reason. For this reason only did I makde the modifications. I hope you can understand.
I am sending you one of each size made the way you make them. 4mm on all fingers. I am also sending you the same with 3mm on the thumb. Please let me know what you think when you get them. I will probably also make one with 3.5 on the index and middle finger and 2.5mm or 3mm on the thumb to see how it turns out. I hope you can accept these modifications as they are what is suited for this market. Material and sewing quality will obviously be of the highest standars as you'll see from the samples. I really hope you don't find this offensive. I had made and sold 500 pocket chalkers only to find out I had to make a couple of major logistical changes. I think this is normal with new products. Your samples will be in the mail on Monday.
Sizes...If the sizes we came up with are a little off from what you are putting together it would be nice to have a little help. We've done our best and have tried and worked through many many trial and errors trying to get it correct. We've created forms to produce the sizes and if they are off a little based on your experience it would be nice to know the exact measurements. If you don't want to tell us, for whatever reason, these are the sizes we will be using.
Trademarks and logos:
At this point in time, that is up to you. You own the trademarks and I don't want to 'step on toes'. I would hope that you would allow the use of the trademarks. I won't mess with your logo unless you want it on the site. There again, I would think that is something you'd want.
Compensation:
We spoke of 10% on the phone. In general, I agree with this. All our 'listed' prices have to include 22%vat. I will pay you 10% on all wholesale and retail sales, after vat is deducted. With one exception, orders over 250 pieces requires extra negotionations and the wholesale sales price and profit margin drops drastically. These are to dealers who dristibute to the wholesalers. One company has over 350 wholesalers worldwide. On these sales where negotiation of lower prices take place I will pay you 5%. My thought is to communicate with you on a monthly basis as to what's happened and how many if any have been sold. Currently the market is slow as is everywhere so I do not have any idea how this will be received and how fast people will pick up on it.
As soon as we come to terms I plan on sending samples to all my European clients. Some might order a dozen, some may order 24 and then some may order 48's. Then again no one may order any right away. At the same time, one or 2 of the companies may want 500 or 1000. I just don't know. (once again...the bigger distributors have a new 2yr catalog out so these sales may or maynot happen anytime soon or in the volumes anticipated..)
Then there's the production time. We're on a roll to make a few hundred next week and test the water. We've got material to make about 3000. How soon we'll actually need them is unknown. We can make, I'm guessing 2-300 a day. Maybe more. The lead seamstress and I just got things really put together on Friday, just in time to send you samples as this is all coming together. I'm not sure exactly how many people they will put on the project. There are 7 or 8 seamstresses although they are all working on different projects. I don't plan on making them all at once so it will be worked in with projects as they are needed.
Doug
Douglas Montgomery <Doug@pocketchalker.co.uk>
to "rncote@netscape.com" <RNCote@netscape.com>
date Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 02:37
subject Ebay.co.uk
mailed-by gmail.com
Images from this sender are always displayed. Don't display from now on.
hide details 26/11/2008
Nancy,
I know you've probably been very very busy and there are a few things you want to go over with the proposal I sent you. You've probably not received the sample pack I sent you yet but I'm sure you'll be receiving it either by the end of this week or first of next week.
As I have told you before, I want to be very upfront with what I'm up too over here.
We still haven't done any marketing or sales yet but I plan on putting them on the UK eBay site at the end of the week. Probably on Friday evening. I want to take advantage of the holiday season and hopefully get some sales going on. They will only show up on the UK eBay site because when I set it up I'll be setting it up that we don't ship to the US. This will avoid them showing up on eBay.com.
I haven't sent any samples to dealers as of yet and I probably won't be doing that until we've worked things out because I want to make sure you are compensated and we have a solid tracking system set up. As for eBay and these next few weeks, you're just going to have to trust me I guess. I don't know what I have to do to get you to believe that I'm a 'hand-shake' kind of guy but I'll keep you posted as things happen and anything that we sell from eBay I'll be sure to send you a Paypal at the end of the year for 10% after VAT, eBay and shipping costs. I'll also be sure to send you an itemized breakdown including the exchange rate for each item on the day it was sold. This is how our taxes are figured when we sell items in multiple currencies. I sell in Euro, GBP, USD and PLN(Polish zloty).
(FYI: To ship one of these to anywhere in Europe from here costs 3PLN. At today's currency exchange that is $1.03)
I've created a template for eBay and posted it way down deep on my server so that you can see it. There is a big disclaimer at the very top stating that you have not approved nor endorsed these as of yet and that we are in talks with you so that you may be compensated for your contribution to our sport. There is also a link back to your eBay listings just in case anyone living in the USA happens to search the UK eBay site. It also mentions that you own the trademark and that they are US patent pending.
We haven't made any agreements with the pro we've been talking to, as of yet. (Although, I have sent him samples) Before that happens I really want to get things solid with you and what we're planning on doing together.
I'm slowly but surely working on the website. It takes a lot of time to put in all the products and attributes for each one plus I'm still learning. The Fingerslides aren't on there yet as products but surely will be as soon as we work things out. There's still a link on the front page directly to you.
I hope things are going well for you during this economic crisis we're all facing. I'm doing my best to not only promote these for myself, but for you also. Please, think of it as 'duplicating your time' not 'stepping on your toes'. It's a big world out there.
Regards,
Doug
http://www.fingerslides.com/gloves/1/2/3/fingerslides.htm
If you'd like to see a comparison to normal gloves here in Europe here is a link to an eBay search.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/items/_W0QQ_nkwZpoolQ20gloveQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ
PS. In my proposal I mentioned that they will go on eBay for 6.99 GBP(at today's exchange rate from www.xe.com
= $10.77) including shipping. For the Holidays that's what I'll be listing them at. I know this seems low and at the moment it probably is. After thinking about it and talking with another advisor on this for our market, I'll probably make the msrp 8.99GBP or around 10.99Euro. At the moment we need to get market presence and then I can raise the prices. We'll just have to see what kind of response we get from eBay and the wholesalers.
Also, sitting here thinking about it, I will probably modify the listing to reflect Christmas and that they'd make a great gift. I'll be sure to send you a link.
to "rncote@netscape.com" <RNCote@netscape.com>
date Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 02:37
subject Ebay.co.uk
mailed-by gmail.com
Images from this sender are always displayed. Don't display from now on.
hide details 26/11/2008
Nancy,
I know you've probably been very very busy and there are a few things you want to go over with the proposal I sent you. You've probably not received the sample pack I sent you yet but I'm sure you'll be receiving it either by the end of this week or first of next week.
As I have told you before, I want to be very upfront with what I'm up too over here.
We still haven't done any marketing or sales yet but I plan on putting them on the UK eBay site at the end of the week. Probably on Friday evening. I want to take advantage of the holiday season and hopefully get some sales going on. They will only show up on the UK eBay site because when I set it up I'll be setting it up that we don't ship to the US. This will avoid them showing up on eBay.com.
I haven't sent any samples to dealers as of yet and I probably won't be doing that until we've worked things out because I want to make sure you are compensated and we have a solid tracking system set up. As for eBay and these next few weeks, you're just going to have to trust me I guess. I don't know what I have to do to get you to believe that I'm a 'hand-shake' kind of guy but I'll keep you posted as things happen and anything that we sell from eBay I'll be sure to send you a Paypal at the end of the year for 10% after VAT, eBay and shipping costs. I'll also be sure to send you an itemized breakdown including the exchange rate for each item on the day it was sold. This is how our taxes are figured when we sell items in multiple currencies. I sell in Euro, GBP, USD and PLN(Polish zloty).
(FYI: To ship one of these to anywhere in Europe from here costs 3PLN. At today's currency exchange that is $1.03)
I've created a template for eBay and posted it way down deep on my server so that you can see it. There is a big disclaimer at the very top stating that you have not approved nor endorsed these as of yet and that we are in talks with you so that you may be compensated for your contribution to our sport. There is also a link back to your eBay listings just in case anyone living in the USA happens to search the UK eBay site. It also mentions that you own the trademark and that they are US patent pending.
We haven't made any agreements with the pro we've been talking to, as of yet. (Although, I have sent him samples) Before that happens I really want to get things solid with you and what we're planning on doing together.
I'm slowly but surely working on the website. It takes a lot of time to put in all the products and attributes for each one plus I'm still learning. The Fingerslides aren't on there yet as products but surely will be as soon as we work things out. There's still a link on the front page directly to you.
I hope things are going well for you during this economic crisis we're all facing. I'm doing my best to not only promote these for myself, but for you also. Please, think of it as 'duplicating your time' not 'stepping on your toes'. It's a big world out there.
Regards,
Doug
http://www.fingerslides.com/gloves/1/2/3/fingerslides.htm
If you'd like to see a comparison to normal gloves here in Europe here is a link to an eBay search.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/items/_W0QQ_nkwZpoolQ20gloveQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ
PS. In my proposal I mentioned that they will go on eBay for 6.99 GBP(at today's exchange rate from www.xe.com
= $10.77) including shipping. For the Holidays that's what I'll be listing them at. I know this seems low and at the moment it probably is. After thinking about it and talking with another advisor on this for our market, I'll probably make the msrp 8.99GBP or around 10.99Euro. At the moment we need to get market presence and then I can raise the prices. We'll just have to see what kind of response we get from eBay and the wholesalers.
Also, sitting here thinking about it, I will probably modify the listing to reflect Christmas and that they'd make a great gift. I'll be sure to send you a link.
rncote@netscape.com
to Douglas
show details 26/11/2008
Doug,
I'm trying to get a counter offer together. As soon as I complete it I will email it to you. Also...To bring an Attorney in on this contract will take a $5,000 retainer fee. Seeking out a alternative...Will let you know.
Nancy L. Cote
Cue-Z CTC
to Douglas
show details 26/11/2008
Doug,
I'm trying to get a counter offer together. As soon as I complete it I will email it to you. Also...To bring an Attorney in on this contract will take a $5,000 retainer fee. Seeking out a alternative...Will let you know.
Nancy L. Cote
Cue-Z CTC
I could go on and on...but it's 2:30am here and I think I've proved my point.
Does anyone see anything threatening? Does anyone see anyone trying to steal her product?
I've worked too hard and I'm pissed that she's attempted to slander me.
I've been told I should let it die...well, I can't...I've worked too hard on my reputation and I'm not going to let some
"bump my product cause no one else will" maniac liar say a bunch of crap.
Now, I either destroyed my reputation or woken people up to the truth. Anyone awake yet?
GoodNight
Doug
Does anyone see anything threatening? Does anyone see anyone trying to steal her product?
I've worked too hard and I'm pissed that she's attempted to slander me.
I've been told I should let it die...well, I can't...I've worked too hard on my reputation and I'm not going to let some
"bump my product cause no one else will" maniac liar say a bunch of crap.
Now, I either destroyed my reputation or woken people up to the truth. Anyone awake yet?
GoodNight
Doug