An unusual thing just happened at the 14.1 pred

Here is another ruling that even the refs had to look up. Archer was playing Zvi. Archer tried to skim the rack to play a safety. He missed the rack and the q ball went into the pocket. Archer is on one foul. Zvi gets ball in hand in the kitchen. What should he do? What is legal for him to do? There are no open shots. See if you know the answer to what is legal for him to do. I will tell you the ruling later.
I'm so disappointed that Max is out.
 
kaznj said:
Here is another ruling that even the refs had to look up. Archer was playing Zvi. Archer tried to skim the rack to play a safety. He missed the rack and the q ball went into the pocket. Archer is on one foul. Zvi gets ball in hand in the kitchen. What should he do? What is legal for him to do? There are no open shots. See if you know the answer to what is legal for him to do. I will tell you the ruling later.
I'm so disappointed that Max is out.
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I'd take an intentional foul by shooting the cue ball past the head string then back to the middle diamond at the head of the table, that way JA is on one foul first.
 
I'd do exactly the same thing that Bill described...shoot the CB downtable, and come back two rails, to the middle of the head rail...freezing the CB to the rail, if possible!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
I'd stick the cue ball in a head corner pocket, take a foul by pushing it up against the long rail facing....what's the difference, a foul is a foul:D
 
nathandumoulin said:
There are indeed some strange things going on. Miscue's may be the topic of conversation, but Ortman's dominance is what's really made my drop my jaw. Another oddity was Immonen's last match where he started off at -1 and ran 101 to close it out.
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Do you have any instructional videos by Mika for sale? Where can I order a set?

JoeyA
 
realkingcobra said:
I'd stick the cue ball in a head corner pocket, take a foul by pushing it up against the long rail facing....what's the difference, a foul is a foul:D
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The rules state player must shoot past the head string, this avoids such type of play, the depression era players figured this move out Looooooooong ago. I prefer to use inside english, strike the rail just above the headstring and 3 rail lay the cue ball on the head rail.
 
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Island Drive said:
The rules state player must shoot past the head string, this avoids such type of play, the depression era players figured this move out Looooooooong ago. I prefer to use inside english, strike the rail just above the headstring and 3 rail lay the cue ball on the head rail.
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That's my second choice shot:D leaving the cue ball in the center of the head rail is not really all that safe, when John Schmitt did that to me when we played a long time back, I 2 railed the cue ball off the end rail and off the side of the rack and brought it back up to the head corner pocket and never disturbed the rack:D

Glen
 
JoeyA said:
I think it would only be a foul, plus the other person would get cue ball in hand behind the head string.
JoeyA
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Nope, its NOT allowed, plain and simple much like you can't shoot your break shot from in front of the headstring.
 
Island Drive said:
The rules state player must shoot past the head string, this avoids such type of play, the depression era players figured this move out Looooooooong ago. I prefer to use inside english, strike the rail just above the headstring and 3 rail lay the cue ball on the head rail.
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Nope, you and JoeyA are kind of both wrong on this one.

This is the rule for after the 14.1 game has started.

7. When a player has the cue ball in hand behind the head string (as after a scratch) and all the object balls are behind the head string, the object ball nearest the head string may be spotted upon request. If two or more balls are an equal distance from the head string, the player may designate which of the equidistant balls is to be spotted.

No where in the rules of 14.1 does it say you have to shoot out of the kitchen AFTER the game has started, nor does it state that you have to comply with an opening break shot following a scratch by your opponent. Once the game as legally started, failure to shoot the cue ball out of the kitchen following a scratch by your opponent giving you ball in hand....is a 1 point foul....read the rules:D

Glen
 
accustatsfan said:
How many fouls do I have by not crossing the head string and not making a legal shot? Multiple fouls on the same shot?
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Nope, just a one point foul...it's not an opening break foul. On an opening break, 2 balls are required to make contact with a rail to be a legal break, failure to do so is a one point foul and a re-rack if the opponent wants in which case the same person breaks again...and again...and again without a 15 point penalty...until the breaker complies with the opening break rules of 2 balls to a rail. 2 balls to the rail on the break and a cue ball scratch is still a legal break, but minus 1 point for the scratch:D

Glen
 
World Standard Rules Glen

I don't know where you got the rule you quoted below, but according to the World Standard Rules of 14.1

Under Section 6 "Fouls"
6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String
When the cue ball is in hand behind the head string, and the first ball the cue ball contacts is also behind the head string, the shot is a foul unless the cue ball crosses the head string before that contact. If such a shot is intentional, it is unsportsmanlike conduct.
The cue ball must either cross the head string or contact a ball in front of or on the head string or the shot is a foul, and the cue ball is in hand for the following player according to the rules of the specific game.

Now go to the 14.1 rules and section 4.9 and the comment for the above section 6.11.
6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String For a foul under the second paragraph of 6.11, the cue ball is in hand behind the head string for the incoming player.

This means you can't commit a foul with BIH behind the head string and leave the incoming shooter having to play with cue ball in position. He gets BIH behind the head string.

You are wrong sir and the others are correct.
BTW this doesn't change my opinion that you are one of the greatest table mechanics in the USA


realkingcobra said:
Nope, you and JoeyA are kind of both wrong on this one.

This is the rule for after the 14.1 game has started.

7. When a player has the cue ball in hand behind the head string (as after a scratch) and all the object balls are behind the head string, the object ball nearest the head string may be spotted upon request. If two or more balls are an equal distance from the head string, the player may designate which of the equidistant balls is to be spotted.

No where in the rules of 14.1 does it say you have to shoot out of the kitchen AFTER the game has started, nor does it state that you have to comply with an opening break shot following a scratch by your opponent. Once the game as legally started, failure to shoot the cue ball out of the kitchen following a scratch by your opponent giving you ball in hand....is a 1 point foul....read the rules:D

Glen
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I like several of the answers. Just shooting up table and back like a lag is very common. J A would have had to be the first to make a move. I have seen players take a foul by shooting off the end rail and going behind the rack. They rack is not hit hard enough to destroy it. Only are few balls are loosened. This leaves no escape, because balls are free on both sides. It is risky. You might slide off the rack and leave a shot.

what actually happened.....
The player put the ball in the kitchen as he was supposed to do. He then shot backwards to the middle of the end rail behind the kitchen. He did not shoot passed the head string as he was supposed to do. The ruling is SERIOUS intentional foul. Loss of 15 points AND rerack. He then had to break using opening game break rules. Two balls and the cue ball have to hit a rail. He did not know the rule. Neither did the refs. They had to look it up. Johnny said he would have warned the guy had he known what he was going to.
Today Tony Robles made three fouls in a row. He lost a total of 18 points and had to rebreak. He still won by about 90 balls.
 
realkingcobra said:
Nope, just a one point foul...it's not an opening break foul. On an opening break, 2 balls are required to make contact with a rail to be a legal break, failure to do so is a one point foul and a re-rack if the opponent wants in which case the same person breaks again...and again...and again without a 15 point penalty...until the breaker complies with the opening break rules of 2 balls to a rail. 2 balls to the rail on the break and a cue ball scratch is still a legal break, but minus 1 point for the scratch:D

Glen
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I think this rule addresses and prevents placing the cb in the jaws behind the head string and touching the tip to it for a foul: rule 3.39 on general rules for all games (World Standardized Rules). Rule 3.39 states in part that if a player who having b.i.h., must shoot the ball out of the "kitchen", contacting an o.b. or rail. Failing this the opponent may request the player to replay the shot with no penalty.
 
You guys need to learn to read the rules:D

World standardized rules for 14.1

3.10 CUE BALL IN HAND BEHIND THE HEAD STRING
This situation applies in specific games whereby the opening break is administered or a player’s scratching is penalized by the incoming player having cue ball in hand behind the head string. The incoming player may place the cue ball anywhere behind the head string. The shooting player may shoot at any object ball as long as the base of the object ball is on or below the head string. He may not shoot at any ball, the base of which is above the head string, unless he first shoots the cue ball below the head string and then by hitting a rail causes the cue ball to come back above the head string and hit the object ball. The base of the ball (the point of the ball touching the table) determines whether it is above or below the head string. If the incoming player inadvertently places the cue ball on or below the head string, the referee or the op-posing player must inform the shooting player of improper positioning of the cue ball before the shot is made. If the opposing player does not so inform the shooting player before the shot is made, the shot is considered legal. If the shooting player is informed of improper positioning, he must then reposition the cue ball. If a player positions the cue ball completely and obviously outside the kitchen and shoots the cue ball, it is a foul. (Refer to rule 2.21) When the cue ball is in hand behind the head string, it remains in hand (not in play) until the player strikes the cue ball with his cue tip. The cue ball may be adjusted by the player’s hand, cue, etc., so long as it remains in hand. Once the cue ball is in play per the above, it may not be impeded in any way by the player; to do so is to commit a foul. Additionally, if the shot fails to contact a legal object ball or fails to drive the cue ball over the head string, the shot is a foul and the opposing player has ball in hand according to the specific game rules.

In ONE POCKET...you'd owe a ball! In 9 ball, you'd get bih, in 8 ball bih...you'd get the cue ball ball in hand.

IN 14.1 YOU GET A FOUL....ONE OF 3 FOULS....BUT YOU GET A FOUL BECAUSE THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS B...I...H ANYWHERE ON THE TABLE, THERE IS NO 3 FOUL LOSS OF GAME RULE...YOU LOOSE A POINT AND YOU'RE ON A FOUL.

DON'T CROSS BREED THE RULES BETWEEN GENERAL RULES....AND 14.1 RULES:rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1:



Glen
 
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