Over-priced Cues - your opinion please!

Who said anything about communism? I asked for people to establish the criteria by which one person gets payed more than another. I never said he or she shoudln't be paid more. I'm guessing you didn't vote for Obama...

So far those criteria (in no particular order) seem to be:

- the collector "X" factor - price goes up cause someone thinks a cue is collectible
it's all about supply and demand (which I think is totally a chicken and egg thing and therefore should be irrelevant as a causal force)
- cause people can afford it
- cause guy X has to pay a mortage and guy Y doesnt
- because guy X can get away with it
- 'cause he has fancy equipment
- cues are art and you pay for art (though this doesn't apply when talking about two simple conversions side by side)
- because cost is relative
- some cues are better engineered than others (this is my favorite one because it speaks to a quality inherent in the cue and is independent of the seller though I just read an interesting BB thread and am not sure how his cues are more engineered than a predator or OB cue)
- you're paying for experience - which is a bit weak as some guys who have done it for 20 years arent as good as some who have been doing it for two

It seems that this list goes on and on! Thanks all for the responses!!!

Chris

greyghost said:
if you can't afford it, then either work harder to afford it...or go shoot with a cuetek. Who cares what the cues cost, if you want it buy it, if you can't afford it then go afford something differient. All men might have been created equal, but not in drive or work ethic, or just got lucky and popped out of a rich woman, you take what you can get. Complaining about it is futile, lets just all be communists so we can all only play pool with a players sneaky pete. Just level off the playing feild ya know, apparantly all everyone wants is for life to be peachy and fair....keep dreaming...or maybe go work your a** off and go buy the Hercek you been having a hard on for 5 years.

Nuff said,
Grey Ghost
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In 1973 I bought a brand new beaautiful Cadillac Coupe de Ville for $7000,it listed for more.It was my first Cadillac and I felt like I was on top of the world.That same year I bought a brand new Balabushka Hoppe syle for $125,another guy paid $500 for a Balabushka with an Ivory Joint,I thought he was wasting money.

Today the cadillac is selling for $125 and I would give $10,000 to get my Balabushka back.I bought the Ivory Balabushka 20 years ago for aroud $5'000,today it would take over $100,000 to 200,000 to get this cue.

Occasionally someone comes up with a theoretical statement such as"no cue in the world is worth$4,000" He has the right to proclaim this from the roof tops,but at the same time if he wins a nice Scruggs in the lottery or wins one in the pool room I doubt that he will let it go for $400.

I once bought a Szamboti for $3800 sold it for $14,000 and it sold for over $50,000 and this is not all that uncommon.
Having said that if a fella is starving and broke he would probably prefer a hamberger to the Rolex on his watch.

The market determines prices we all know that,and the fact (not opinion) is that many cues are worth(sell for everyday)a lot of money. And the strange thing is the more expensive ones tend to get more expensiveand the less expensive ones serve their purpose,but depreciate in value like a Rolex,Ferrari or Corvette with some exceptions.



DEAN
 
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hdgis1 said:
Dave - It's not the same thing man! Let's say Dennis and Dave do a conversion from an old house cue. Nothing fancy. New joint. Add a butt cap. New Ferrule and tip. Refinish it. Turn it down a bit. Whatever. All things being equal (materials/design) - who gets more $? That is clearly not the same as a Kia and Bently...



Keep'em coming Dave! My self image is beginning to be affected...:frown:
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Wanna know the difference? Here's one for starters.....

S7300277.jpg


See if you can figure this one out....
 
hdgis1 said:
Who said anything about communism? I asked for people to establish the criteria by which one person gets payed more than another. I never said he or she shoudln't be paid more. I'm guessing you didn't vote for Obama...

So far those criteria (in no particular order) seem to be:

- the collector "X" factor - price goes up cause someone thinks a cue is collectible
it's all about supply and demand (which I think is totally a chicken and egg thing and therefore should be irrelevant as a causal force)
- cause people can afford it
- cause guy X has to pay a mortage and guy Y doesnt
- because guy X can get away with it
- 'cause he has fancy equipment
- cues are art and you pay for art (though this doesn't apply when talking about two simple conversions side by side)
- because cost is relative
- some cues are better engineered than others (this is my favorite one because it speaks to a quality inherent in the cue and is independent of the seller though I just read an interesting BB thread and am not sure how his cues are more engineered than a predator or OB cue)
- you're paying for experience - which is a bit weak as some guys who have done it for 20 years arent as good as some who have been doing it for two

It seems that this list goes on and on! Thanks all for the responses!!!

Chris
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No i didn't vote for that fool. I mentioned communisim for all the complaints of something being too high priced. They cost what they cost, so whats the big deal there are many things I can and cant afford. If I want it bad enough and can't afford it...then I work my butt off and go get what I want doesn't matter the cost, only the drive matters.

But great post on the differences b/t cues. And your right about the years experience thing. I have learned more (which is why i got this great job) in 3 yrs than some do in 20 offshore. A consultant once told me out there you know keep learning, and remember you can put a retard out here for 20 yrs and he is only gonna have one year experience. To hell with experience, its not worth as much as people think, its how much you want to learn and how fast your willing to apply it.
 
My guess is the quality of the threads. Seems like the one on the bottom is a bit fuzzy. Though it may be the other way around...the bottom one is threaded all the way down the pin. Does one serve better than the other? I am definitely not a cue maker. Help me out here?

1pRoscoe said:
Wanna know the difference? Here's one for starters.....

S7300277.jpg


See if you can figure this one out....
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hdgis1 said:
My guess is the quality of the threads. Seems like the one on the bottom is a bit fuzzy. Though it may be the other way around...the bottom one is threaded all the way down the pin. Does one serve better than the other? I am definitely not a cue maker. Help me out here?
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The top one is what Dennis' tenons look like for his ferrules. He also threads his own ferrules the same way.

The bottom is with a threading tool where you just kinda "crank" on it to make threads. We were in his shop one day and he cut the ferrule/tenon down the middle and you know what was in the bottom one? A ton of glue filling the gaps.

Cut a Searing shaft down the middle and there is no glue gaps, just sold contact.
 
Dennis is hands down a cue building genius and a heck of a nice guy who let me bug and bug him and hang out in the shop alot. The work he does on ferrules and putting joint collars alone wows me. His veneer work. IMO he is the greatest cuemaker who ever lived. Yeah I just sold my conversion but it was to start a business, and believe me when the money starts coming back in I will be buying up as many searings as I can they are worth every penny and if you ever have had the pleasure of hitting with one you won't forget it. I can't wait for my name to come up someday, the cue I get from the man himself will be pryed out of my dead hands.

forrest

p.s. IMO seeing him work first hand and getting to know him.. Dennis doesn't charge enough for his cues.
 
hdgis1 said:
I'm just the kind of guy who thinks there are more important things to spend money on...
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What if you had 6,267,342.42 in the bank no debt or expenses and you saw the cue of your dreams for 50,000.00?
 
To the OP:


You have a right to your opinion, as does anyone else.

You are kinda insulting some of the top cuemakers and those who buy their cues on a billiards website, and you wonder why some feathers get ruffled? Go on a harley message board and say hondas are far superior and that anyone who spends extra on a harley is a fool, see what kind of response you get. Though, I know you already know this and like the attention you are getting.


I KNOW yoe COMPLETELY understand that all things are NOT equal when it comes to cues. AND I CAN PROVE IT. I know that you know you can buy a cue for less than $100. You could go to wal mart and buy a titanium special for prob $30. Knowing this- WHY DID YOU SPEND $380 on a cue for yourself?

Go to a bar with a $400 cue and show it to bar players and leagers. MANY will say, you are crazy for spending that much on a cue! Many people who play pool at least every week will NEVER spend even $50 on a cue.

You obviously thought you were getting something extra ( right or wrong)for your money, OR YOU WOULD NOT HAVE SPENT IT! What makes a Joss better than a wal mart cue? What would you say to someone who thinks you are crazy for ever spending more than $100 on a cue?

IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME THING, JUST DOWN THE SCALE A BIT. You DO understand it. You spoke this with your OWN money, then you criticize others for speaking with their own money and buying what makes them happy. A bit hypocritical, in my opinion.

You weren't even satisfied with your $400 cue. MAYBE IF YOU SPENT $2600 YOU WOULD HAVE GOTTEN SOMETHING YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN HAPPY WITH!:o Maybe there is something to this after all? hmmm? I am just making a joke, but you get the idea.


I may NEVER buy a ferarari. I may think that my ford is better in every way, and anyone who spends the money on a high end car is a fool. BUT, try to sell a ford versus a ferarri. The ferari will get more money on the open market. This PROVES that the high end car IS WORTH MORE, regardless of your opinion.

Market value is NOT subjective. I may think my Lucasi is a much better cue than my Schon, but if I offer up both for sale, the Schon will get more money. See , my opinion did not change the selling price.

Jw
 
One more thing!


I personally would never spend $1000 on a Mcdermott. They do make cues that sell for that much. They are not worth it to ME.

Here is one reason why- Let's say you spend $1000 on a nice brand new McDermott. In a few years you will have a cue that you could expect to get maybe $500-600 for ( assuming it is still in top notch shape).

Now let's say you buy a nice handmade custom cue ( even a plain jane) for say $1000-1200 from a reputable maker. In a few years you have a cur that you can prob get $700-1500 for depending on the market for that maker.


Who is being foolish?

I see a lot of people who will never spend more than $500 for a cue, but WILL spend $100 - 200 each for many cues. They end up spending the same amount on cues, just have a lot lees to show for it.

10- $100 cues are worth FAR LESS than 1 - $1000 cue.

Jw
 
When 8 pages don't convince the OP about cues, then you have to realize that the same person would by a Prius over a Lambo, or a Vespa over a Ducati 1198s..

When the requirements are to just get by, then any cue will do. After that all the flash in the world won't make up for bad play.

A lot of people I know and see shoot who have 3500 dollar cues should have spent 500 on the cue and 3000 for lessons.. lol :grin:

JV (---included in that last statement.....
 
I wouldn't spend $1000 on a McD either!!! Nor would I purchase a cue as an investment...

poolpro said:
One more thing!


I personally would never spend $1000 on a Mcdermott. They do make cues that sell for that much. They are not worth it to ME.

Here is one reason why- Let's say you spend $1000 on a nice brand new McDermott. In a few years you will have a cue that you could expect to get maybe $500-600 for ( assuming it is still in top notch shape).

Now let's say you buy a nice handmade custom cue ( even a plain jane) for say $1000-1200 from a reputable maker. In a few years you have a cur that you can prob get $700-1500 for depending on the market for that maker.


Who is being foolish?

I see a lot of people who will never spend more than $500 for a cue, but WILL spend $100 - 200 each for many cues. They end up spending the same amount on cues, just have a lot lees to show for it.

10- $100 cues are worth FAR LESS than 1 - $1000 cue.

Jw
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I really don't need to be convinced about anything other than why one cue cost more than another. Which I think has been accomplished. Do any of these explanations have any effect on my belief that a $6000 BB will help me play better than a $400 Joss? Nope. Though some lessons might! I don't buy cues as an investment (other than something to invest in my game) and if that's just getting by then so be it. How many racks should one be able to run and just get by? I'd guess it's at least one more than your opponent!

classiccues said:
When 8 pages don't convince the OP about cues, then you have to realize that the same person would by a Prius over a Lambo, or a Vespa over a Ducati 1198s..

When the requirements are to just get by, then any cue will do. After that all the flash in the world won't make up for bad play.

A lot of people I know and see shoot who have 3500 dollar cues should have spent 500 on the cue and 3000 for lessons.. lol :grin:

JV (---included in that last statement.....
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hdgis1 said:
I wouldn't spend $1000 on a McD either!!! Nor would I purchase a cue as an investment...
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You don't need to buy a cue as an investment to want to get a chance of it even holding its value. I am saying that when spending roughly the SAME amount of money, one way will hold its value ( maybe even go up) and the other is a sure loss.

That is a consideration especially when you are spending more than say $500. I know it is for me, and I do not buy cues for an investment. I buy them because I like them.


Also, I do not believe that you must "earn" the right to have a nice cue. If you just started playing 3 months ago, and want to buy a nice $800 and you can afford it, then DO IT!

Playing ability has nothing to do with an appreciation for cues. Going back to the car example. Do you have to be a pro caliber driver to want and appreciate a high end car? Must you be an artist or art major to justify hanging some nice art in your home?

Most of the time it is said out of jealousy. " I can't believe that he has that cue, he can't run a rack". So what!

I am overweight, and not playing basketball anytime soon, should I not be allowed to shop for nike shoes?


Jw
 
hdgis1 said:
I really don't need to be convinced about anything other than why one cue cost more than another. Which I think has been accomplished. Do any of these explanations have any effect on my belief that a $6000 BB will help me play better than a $400 Joss? Nope. Though some lessons might! I don't buy cues as an investment (other than something to invest in my game) and if that's just getting by then so be it. How many racks should one be able to run and just get by? I'd guess it's at least one more than your opponent!
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Yet the $400 joss you admitted was NOT up to par! I am not knocking joss cues, just making a point.


So, why no response to what I asked in my first post? Why did you feel it was necessary to spend $400 , when you can get a nice playing Lucasi for HALF the price?

Could it be that there is more to a cue than just the materials used, or it's basic function?

Heck why not just use a house cue? Or buy a nice valley 2 piece? I can run a rack with a $40 cue. So, by your thinking, I would not be justified in spending more than $40, right?



Jw
 
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poolpro said:
You are kinda insulting some of the top cuemakers and those who buy their cues on a billiards website, and you wonder why some feathers get ruffled?
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Not really...


poolpro said:
Knowing this- WHY DID YOU SPEND $380 on a cue for yourself? You obviously thought you were getting something extra ( right or wrong)for your money, OR YOU WOULD NOT HAVE SPENT IT! What makes a Joss better than a wal mart cue? What would you say to someone who thinks you are crazy for ever spending more than $100 on a cue?
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I expected I would get a cue that played at least as well as the one I used to own. I guess I also erroneously expected it to be built right. I'd tell someone who wouldnt spend $100 they are missing out on using a good playing cue.

poolpro said:
MAYBE IF YOU SPENT $2600 YOU WOULD HAVE GOTTEN SOMETHING YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN HAPPY WITH!:o Maybe there is something to this after all? hmmm?
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There is. But only to a certian extent. Using your ratio's - Does a $400 cue play better than a $30 cue? Does a $5,333 cue play better than a $400 cue? How about a $69,333? Think it plays better than the $5333 cue? At some point buying a cue is no longer about how well it plays.

poolpro said:
Market value is NOT subjective. I may think my Lucasi is a much better cue than my Schon, but if I offer up both for sale, the Schon will get more money. See , my opinion did not change the selling price.
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Quite right. But the factors that determine market value are both quantitative and qualitative.
 
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