Is there more deflection on hard inside english than hard outside?

KoolKat9Lives said:
Andrew, please try the shot I cuetabled in my OP. Someone, please try it. I swear, I am aiming full ball to get whitey 3 rails. If I don't, I overcut.

Again, good old maple shaft, average speed GC III 9 footer (these things matter, so if you're using a LD shaft on new 760 with superspeed rails, apples become oranges).

Thanks,

Matt
Click to expand...

I aim exactly as you do. One thing I see is you're going 3 rails with the inside which probably means more speed and more squirt. Another is, (how much depends on equipment) the inside will throw toward the rail, and the outside throws toward the pocket. Then there's the "drop in english" factor where the OB spin can get spit out depending on the pockets, and your aim factor based on this.

The physicists may or may not tend to downplay all of the above, but it's as real as the air we breath. IMNSHO :smile:

P.S. On some inside shots I've had to adjust past the full ball aim point depending on how much juice I use.

td
 
grindz said:
I aim exactly as you do. One thing I see is you're going 3 rails with the inside which probably means more speed and more squirt. Another is, (how much depends on equipment) the inside will throw toward the rail, and the outside throws toward the pocket. Then there's the "drop in english" factor where the OB spin can get spit out depending on the pockets, and your aim factor based on this.

The physicists may or may not tend to downplay all of the above, but it's as real as the air we breath. IMNSHO :smile:

P.S. On some inside shots I've had to adjust past the full ball aim point depending on how much juice I use.

td
Click to expand...

See? I am not a blind idiot! Or if I am, I have good company. :) Thanks grindz.


KK9 <- knows people can be bribed with green

;)
 
mastery of inside is one of the keys that separate men from mice

hey cool cat, I only got one question for you? Do you use back hand english? If so this could be why you are experiencing this, I shoot inside pretty often b/c it helps me open up my track for the cue ball 360 degrees. One thing i don't ever do is shoot with backhand english. I line up the shot to the contact point on the obj ball straight through the inside english I'm applying(IE- I'm aligned through the english). Never gives me a problem and I make those shots with no problems what so ever, I shoot them with supreme confidence b/c the technique works as close to perfect as I could ask.

I taught this to a friend and he experiences the same. Most don't shoot inside because they are afraid to miss because it is hard to use, most players do use outside dramatically more than inside and there is no reason for this they are equal in their ability to position yourself around the table. The technique throws out the un-confidence issues and lets you do what you wanted to. Hope this gets you on the inside track my friend.

Happy Shooting,
Grey Ghost
 
there's such a simple, time honored solution to all this though..... get in the pit, and when you lose you last dime after missing an inside english shot your body goes ewwwwwwww.... man! that hurt.

then, the next time your body like precringes and says im not gonna fire this inside into the rail this time and it remembers where not to aim, and the ball goes in and you collect and everything is fine and dandy.
 
Advanced Pool by George Fels

KoolKat9Lives said:
But why is that? Why is inside so difficult?

It is a shot advanced players must have, perhaps not to be a commonly used shot at warp speed, but to maneuver thru traffic at slower speeds - it's a must!
Click to expand...

I don't think that it is difficult. I highly recommend reading "Advanced Pool" by George Fels. His take on inside english made me realize that it's just another shot. One that will improve your overall mental attitude and increase your level of play.

Paul
 
Does BHE generate less deflection on long, hard hits?

greyghost said:
hey cool cat, I only got one question for you? Do you use back hand english? If so this could be why you are experiencing this, I shoot inside pretty often b/c it helps me open up my track for the cue ball 360 degrees. One thing i don't ever do is shoot with backhand english. I line up the shot to the contact point on the obj ball straight through the inside english I'm applying(IE- I'm aligned through the english). Never gives me a problem and I make those shots with no problems what so ever, I shoot them with supreme confidence b/c the technique works as close to perfect as I could ask.

I taught this to a friend and he experiences the same. Most don't shoot inside because they are afraid to miss because it is hard to use, most players do use outside dramatically more than inside and there is no reason for this they are equal in their ability to position yourself around the table. The technique throws out the un-confidence issues and lets you do what you wanted to. Hope this gets you on the inside track my friend.

Happy Shooting,
Grey Ghost
Click to expand...

I have not been using BHE GreyGhost. I believe they call what I use parrallel english, which is what I think you describe in your post here. I tinkered with BHE with EZMoney last night. He executed the shot nicely with BHE, with less force - or hardness of stroke. It would take some getting used to to trust the aiming - you aim to make the shot with no english and then bring you back hand in or out to get the tip to apply inside. EZ seems to go to BHE on shots that are longer and require a harder hit. Perhaps he uses a little BHE for medium range - medium struck - shots.

My little tinkering last night with BHE seemed to provide LESS deflection than parrallel inside english. Is this what ya'll experience?
 
Paul Mon said:
I don't think that it is difficult. I highly recommend reading "Advanced Pool" by George Fels. His take on inside english made me realize that it's just another shot. One that will improve your overall mental attitude and increase your level of play.

Paul
Click to expand...

Inside english, outside english...whatever. Put the cue ball where it needs to go in order to put the object ball in the pocket. Use whatever english you need to position the cue ball for the next shot. I don't use english to make a shot. I use it to send the cue ball where I need it to go after the shot.

For some reason, we want to make this game much more complicated than it needs to be.

Make the ball. Set up for the next shot. repeat!

Steve
 
pooltchr said:
For some reason, we want to make this game much more complicated than it needs to be.

Make the ball. Set up for the next shot. repeat!
Click to expand...
That's good advice ... but knowing everything you need to know to do this, and actually having the skill, ability, and mentality to execute ... priceless!

Regards,
Dave
 
grindz said:
I aim exactly as you do. One thing I see is you're going 3 rails with the inside which probably means more speed and more squirt. Another is, (how much depends on equipment) the inside will throw toward the rail, and the outside throws toward the pocket. Then there's the "drop in english" factor where the OB spin can get spit out depending on the pockets, and your aim factor based on this.

The physicists may or may not tend to downplay all of the above, but it's as real as the air we breath. IMNSHO :smile:

P.S. On some inside shots I've had to adjust past the full ball aim point depending on how much juice I use.

td
Click to expand...

Got to say there is some merit in this statement. I spent several years playing on a snooker table with tight pockets set up for playing golf. On these very tight tables the difference between making and missing many shots was the direction of spin or lack of spin on a cue ball. Even after hitting deep in the jaws spin determined if it went in or stayed in the jaws an easy shot for your opponent.

This obviously isn't as big a factor on a pool table but if I have to cut a ball into a pocket that is presenting a very thin slice of itself to me I am definitely going to use no side spin or "helping" side spin that makes the ball want to go deeper into the jaws when hit into one. If there is no option but to use side spin that will lessen my chances of making the object ball to position the cue ball for the next shot then it is often time to consider another shot.

Hu
 
pooltchr said:
Inside english, outside english...whatever. Put the cue ball where it needs to go in order to put the object ball in the pocket. Use whatever english you need to position the cue ball for the next shot. I don't use english to make a shot. I use it to send the cue ball where I need it to go after the shot.

For some reason, we want to make this game much more complicated than it needs to be.

Make the ball. Set up for the next shot. repeat!

Steve
Click to expand...

Steve,

In general I agree with what you've written. But there are indeed shots that require inside english to make the ball. Have you read George's take on inside english?

Paul
 
dr_dave said:
Do you care to elaborate?

Thanks,
Dave
Click to expand...

If you were you referring to stick aim, your statment is not always true. Since the stick is imo the only thing you can aim that has any meaning in a pool shot, I assumed that was what you meant.
 
... I don't use english to make a shot. I use it to send the cue ball where I need it to go after the shot. ...
Click to expand...
There are some fairly common shots that require side spin to make the ball. One is when you're slightly blocked from hitting the object ball in the right place to make it. Side spin can throw the ball and sometimes it's enough to make the shot possible.

A second is to change the angle on a bank shot by transferring (a little) side spin to the object ball. Sometimes this can be done by the cut angle (collision induced throw band spin transfer) but some shots, especially at one pocket, require side spin on the cue ball which is transferred (a little) to the object ball.

Also, you can keep the cue ball from moving too much to the side on a cut shot by using side spin to throw the ball to the correct angle rather than cut, but I think this technique works on fewer shots than people think. (An extreme example of this is to make the object ball go to the left and also make the cue ball go to the left using a level stick and right side spin.) This is not exactly an example of using side spin to make a shot, but it does point out that sometimes side spin is useful even when a cushion is not involved.

See pages 49, 86 and 99 of Byrne's New Standard Book.
 
Last edited:
Bob, I agree that there are times when you have to do whatever is necessary to make the shot, and not worry so much about shape. But as a general rule, the deciding factor in whether to use inside or outside english comes from where I need the cue ball to go, and not from trying to spin the object ball.
Occasionally, we are faced with those exceptions that require exceptional shot execution.
Steve
 
pooltchr said:
Bob, I agree that there are times when you have to do whatever is necessary to make the shot, and not worry so much about shape. But as a general rule, the deciding factor in whether to use inside or outside english comes from where I need the cue ball to go, and not from trying to spin the object ball.
Occasionally, we are faced with those exceptions that require exceptional shot execution.
Steve
Click to expand...

Steve,
There are routine 1 pocket shots that require inside english and they are NOT exceptionally difficult to execute. The difficulty lies in recognizing that inside english is the only way to succesfully execute the shot. Have you read Fel's book?

Paul Mon
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top