Should good pool players be barred from local tournements ?

houmatroy

houmatroy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Down in South Louisiana we have a few places that just flat out bar good pool players from playing..some even have calcutta's...My thoughts have been the same for over 20 years...that the bigger the name the more money in the calcutta plus it's the cheapest way for up & coming players to play better players so they can see how the game can be played & they can use it as a learning experience...I believe that if it's mostly ball bangers or novices that whoever running the tournement could handicap said player to try and make it as equal as can be to all players..But to flat out BAR a player for being too good is just crazy in my eyes...Just asoon go to the bowling alley & pass out flyers saying we are interested in bowlers who would like to play in our pool tournement...Just was curious on everyone elses thoughts on the subject...To bar or not to bar...that is the question..thx...Troy
 
I say don't bar them. I play often in a $10 entry handicapped tournament at my local bar on Friday nights. So far my fondest memory of it (apart from winning it) is when I beat Eddie Little (and took him out of the tournament) and ended up taking 2nd that night. If you get to the point that no one wins it but short stops and the regulars stop showing up, maybe then it is a problem. Everyone has their good and bad nights and I think it's a shame to keep people out because they are "too good".

Also, to be honest, most of the really strong players don't even enter the tournament because it costs them too much money (playing all night for $100-150 win vs. playing sets all night for at least that much each set).

Brian
 
Let's put it this way: what do you say to the guy that tells you he isn't getting in coz Ken over there is playing and he won it 8 of the last 10 times, finishing 2nd in the other 10? And there are 5 others that agree...

Can Ken get in?
 
Black-Balled said:
Let's put it this way: what do you say to the guy that tells you he isn't getting in coz Ken over there is playing and he won it 8 of the last 10 times, finishing 2nd in the other 10? And there are 5 others that agree...

Can Ken get in?
Click to expand...

I would tell him "Ken's a lot better than you, and it's because when he was coming up, he sought out better players and went out of his way to play them, instead of whining like a b**** about them."

Then again, I'd be a terrible tournament director.

And if it wasn't obvious, my stance on the OP is that they should be allowed and even encouraged to play, and I personally choose to play in the tournament with the best players over the tournament that I know I can place high in every time.

-Andrew
 
Black-Balled said:
Let's put it this way: what do you say to the guy that tells you he isn't getting in coz Ken over there is playing and he won it 8 of the last 10 times, finishing 2nd in the other 10? And there are 5 others that agree...

Can Ken get in?
Click to expand...

That's where whoever is running to use common sense & judgement to assess the situation & make a wise decission...How many players won't play because of Ken & how many more Ken's will play if allowed...& if Ken is really that good then handicap Ken somewhat to even playing field.
 
Unfortunately, in a lot of the smaller areas, that is the exact attitude of a lot of people that show up to play. They won't show up just to donate there entry fee if the same guy keeps showing up and winning it. I see both sides here. From a real pool standpoint, you should always want the best players in and want to compete with them.
But from a small pool hall or bars perspective, if so many people start refusing to show up because a certain ringer always takes it, then they have to consider barring him.
The small bar I used to play in always had huge turnouts and someone different was always winning and everyone loved it. Lots of money being spent on drinks and food. Then one guy showed up and won it every week for like 3 months and after that, if people saw he was in they would turn around and leave, couldn't get 10 people in after that. That's a lot of drink money down the drain for a night because of one guy.
 
If it's a handicapped tournament, the TD just needs to raise Ken up a notch or two.
But if it's not, then my real question would be what fun could it be for Ken to rob a tournament of a few bucks by beating the same people over and over. A real pool player would step up to a more competitive field.

Steve
 
pooltchr said:
If it's a handicapped tournament, the TD just needs to raise Ken up a notch or two.
But if it's not, then my real question would be what fun could it be for Ken to rob a tournament of a few bucks by beating the same people over and over. A real pool player would step up to a more competitive field.

Steve
Click to expand...

There's not necessarily a more competitive field readily available for Ken. The same 2 or 3 guys place top 2 or 3 in the tournament I play in every week, but there's no weekly tournament in the region that has a better field for them to move "up" to. This week the tournament may be soft, though, since they're all playing in the US Open, and all currently on the winner's side.

-Andrew
 
one example !

There is this place in new iberia called Emerals which is bout 50 miles from Houma where I live & 50 miles or so from Lafayette...well they get a draw from 50 to 100 mile area on a good night & their tournement was getting talked about & was getting more & more players up to 50 or 60 players..Now they do the bar the good player thing & now they lucky to get 20 players..& now the lil local shortstops that have been known to gamble but are in tight with owners so they will never get barred go on the nola forums bragging they double dipped this guy...I just think it's a joke...If you get the 20 worst players in a certain area..there still will be a pecking order from 1 to 20 & the top five of the worst will constantly beat the 15 lesser players.


ps..When i use to play.some of my fonder memories are when i beat great players..even if i didn't place in the money..those wins stand out more than any tourney i ever won.
 
Last edited:
Troy

As a guy who robbes local bar tournament I have to agree on handicapping better players. If the same guy takes home the cheese every time the tournament soon goes South. I actually talked one Bar owner into paying more places just to get bangers in. Of course this killed the first place take. I also throw off so I don't win every week. I even watch the board and go the loser's bracket just so I can take out a guy I don't like, then lose to a girl. But I am a hobby shooter and don't try and make money to eat.

You can beat every system if you try. One tournament requires you sit out if you win two weeks in a row. So my buddy and I take turns and chop the pot each week. Even doing that we run off many bangers who would like to donate.

A Short Stop once told me the better you shoot the less you get to play. Sorry but I have found that to be true. I don't like that fact of life but it is a FACT.
 
Last edited:
Arizona has a system to as you say BARS GOOD PLAYERS, it is called the Rating System, and better player get a High Rating Number.

That Bars them from most tournament except the OPENS. That is the reward where I live for getting better, and being an “A” Player.. IMHO
 
Troy,

An accurate handicap should give everyone the same chance of winning.....work on your system until that top player is only winning once a month.....even if the race is 5 to 2 or 5 to 1.....handicapped tournies are there to give everyone a chance....so adjust until it works....call 8, wild 8, whatever works....set an expectation for the better player - he has to play his best to cash - he has an off night, he's not gonna get paid, you are not there to just provide him a weekly source of income....

Alternate break helps too....
 
here they tend to do b/c tournaments and opens. Couple of the small tournaments didn't allow players, and most of those tournaments lasted about 2 years and then died.

Current tournament I'm playing they used to handicap it by making the better players pay more to enter. I find that a stupid idea, and they'd get maybe 20 players. Now they do a 32 player field on saturday, and it is always full. Think there was about 800 or 900 in the calcutta last week and its a 10 dollar entry fee tournament.
 
So just how much enjoyment do you and your friend get, beating those same "bangers" week in and week out?

Steve
 
If you have to ask this question, then you should answer this question... Why do you play in tournaments?

Another question comes to mind, why would a pool hall even have a tournament?
To provide competition for the players in an organized manner with an even playing environment?

Otherwise you could just as easily spend your time in a pool hall just matching up all the time. Only playing the players you want to for what ever the bet is you agree with and what ever game you agree to play. And, you can even chose which rules you play by. No 3 foul rule, 'call pocket' ball or just plain... no luck shots. You get to make up the rules before you play one game.... is that what you want?

If it is an OPEN tournament that it is your choice to enter. If you don't like the players that enter, don't enter.

Let all players that pay PLAY.
 
In Atlanta, Georgia at Mr. Cues 2 we have Monday night 9 ball for A,B,C,D players in other words its open. You pay your $20.00 and try your luck. It is a handicap tournament. Now on Friday Night it is a C and D only $20.00 buy in like on Monday but double elimination. Bottom line is get in where you fit in. Just have 2 tournaments and problem will be solved. I play in the C and D because if a player has to spot me 10 games to 2 like on Monday night I don't have any business messing with him or in that tournament.
 
Bar tourney's should not have to function under the same guuidelines as a real "pool tourney." What does that mean right? If I own a bar I'm just trying to give the drinkers something to do. I probably don't wanna add too much dough and don't want the payout and entry fee to be high at all cause I'd rather sell the beer than have you enter the pool tourney. With that said it should be all about the take for the bar. The winner of the tournament in an ideal situation maybe breaks even with his tab.

Pool players in general, don't drink as much as the average joe although we'd like to think we do. Good example from my own weekend is this. Friday night there was a tourney I didn't have much interest in as I was hanging out with friends just drinking away. I spent over $100 drinking and buying shots having a good time. Sunday I wanted to practice and play as hard as I could since I haven't been out to the pool hall much in the last 4-5 weeks...my tab was $8.25, I bought 3 beers.

My point is if you run off the 5 or so guys who won't play because they have no chance at there bar tab money, they won't stay and drink because that's a part of their overall enjoyment taken away. Would you rather have 1 guy who plays great, steals the money, and spends maybe $10 with the bar or would you rather have 5 average Joes that are gonna drink it up and spend a whole lot more than the great player and be tickled to death if they got free drinks for the night? If I own the bar I choose the better customers.

Lots of regulars and "bangers" who play at these kinds of tourneys are people who frequent the bar on nights where there is no tournament. These tournaments are akin to karaoke night to them. They should be looked at as such.

Now if you have a tourney at a pool hall or sports bar with ample tables, you need to handicap, graduate the entry fee, pay more places out, make people take a week off if they win or finish 2nd 2 times in a row(including chops). If the talent pool is separated by that much at the top thats the only way to keep the bottom caliber players playing. Our Sunday tournament was getting 50 ppl consistently, same guy has been winning it all year pretty much, now in the 20s is a good turnout. Just sayin!
 
Concerning the people talking about keeping players who drink in during the tournaments. I have no problem with that. But those should also be handicapped tournaments. I have no problem keeping someone out of a tournament because you have designated them with a specific rank that precludes them from entering. But, it has to be a designation that is given to anyone of that skill level. Banning people specifically by name is just unfair in my opinion.

Brian
 
Black-Balled said:
Let's put it this way: what do you say to the guy that tells you he isn't getting in coz Ken over there is playing and he won it 8 of the last 10 times, finishing 2nd in the other 10? And there are 5 others that agree...

Can Ken get in?
Click to expand...

There's another side to this as well. Depending on how good Ken plays relative to how good everyone else in the room plays, it may be in Ken's best interest to not continue to play in the tournament. A few people may appreciate having a better player around; someone to learn from who helps to elevate the overall level of play in the room, but many will develop a high level of jealousy and animosity toward Ken, which can lead to problems. Ken is probably better off seeking competition from players closer to his own speed. People have a tendency to become less friendly, or even outwardly hostile, toward a guy who snaps off their tournament nearly every week.

Aaron
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top