Slow play/Racking issues at the US Open

JD_Hogg

JD_Hogg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is slow play and the rack wars killing interest in the US Open?

I hate slow play and cant much stand to watch it either. In the finals of this years US Open, at the start of the match, Ralf took about 5 mins to mull over a safe move on the 1 ball after he broke. When he finally shot he pretty much butchered the safe attempt. Then a game or 2 later he spent another 5 mins pondering a easy kick shot only to miss it completely when he finally shot. At that point I pretty much gave up watching.

Add in the fact guys now have to spend 10 mins just to rack the balls to their opponents liking is just ridiculous imo.

I’m a die hard pool fan and love to watch matches whenever I can. But this kinda crap turns me off right away and I stop watching. I can only guess what a casual fan, or fan to be might think of this.

How can you televise someone walking around a table for 10mins and expect people to get excited about it.

I’m not trying to pick on Ralf personally. I hear lots of stories about what a good guy he is and that he is also a good sport. I’ve seen him shoot under the clock so I know he can. I guess he just gets in the moment and prob doesn’t realize just how long he takes sometimes.

Personally I would like to see a 30 sec shot clock, with one 30sec extension per game. And a ref who also does the racking, and you take what you get. Heck, I almost thought Donny was gonna bust out an electron microscope to check his racks.

I realize it’s more than just this killing pool, but it sure cant help spark much interest either.
 
Last edited:
I don't have a problem with someone taking a couple 2-3 mins on a difficult shot. I know i've done it in State Tournaments and noone ever said a word. ( im not a slow player otherwise ) So i dont mind when someone does it to me. But 5 mins would be overboard.

Rack your own is the only way to go, if you could stop pattern racking imho.

But for TV you could edit all that out.
 
Richardson said:
I don't have a problem with someone taking a couple 2-3 mins on a difficult shot. I know i've done it in State Tournaments and noone ever said a word. ( im not a slow player otherwise ) So i dont mind when someone does it to me. But 5 mins would be overboard.

Rack your own is the only way to go, if you could stop pattern racking imho.

But for TV you could edit all that out.
Click to expand...



I was thinking more for live tv or a live audience.
 
slow play AND 9-ball are killing pool

Rack your own 9-ball (at least without PLENTY of stipulations) is a gaff.

"Loser Racks" 9-ball is dead for the pros. It's like having APA 6's play a race to 5 6-ball on a bar table to find out "who the best player is".

9-ball in general is nearly dead, and rightly so. At this point it's being held on life support because "the fans understand it" which is hogwash...

...THERE ARE NO DEDICATED 9-BALL FANS

And btw, it takes about 30 seconds to explain 10-ball, why it's a better all around test than 9-ball, and no more than 1-2 racks before even a casual pool player / fan can UNDERSTAND the difference in skill level and complexity.

If we want credibility, and to move pool to the next level of acceptance / understanding, let the pros play a "real" game, in a decent length race, with consistent rules.

Matches that decide something as prestigious as the "US OPEN" should NOT be decided in matches lasting 45 min to an hour. These matches should NOT be shortened even further (1991 DH / BH) to suit TV.

My vote, and not that you asked, is for 10-ball, rack your own, 1-2-3 in specified spots, 10-ball NEVER counts on the break.

Winner breaks.

Race to 15, win by 2. That should be a 2-3 hour match, with a reasonable rate of play, and YES!!! There needs to be the threat of a shot clock. Players had to re-learn how to play on faster cloth, or with tighter pockets, they should be able to adapt to a non-sloth-like rate of play.

Why does every round of a major golf tournament take 4 hours?

Every round of a major tennis tournament takes 2+....

In pool we KNOW you need a longer race, but we keep making them shorter for "micro-wave TV slots".

We make "regional" tour stops just long enough the local working players can't make it, and big time tour stops and "majors" short enough it's a coin flip at the top.

Shame on us....

Shame on us.
 
D-Rock said:
They should just rack their own breaks.
Click to expand...



Dont know if you want rack your own with Donny in the mix. If there's a 20-30second time limit to get them racked then fine, but without that your still in the same boat imo.
 
The best solution would be to have at the Open and other big tournaments maybe 4 rackers from BCA or some qualified entity in pool. Very seldom (I have been at the Open the last 5 yrs) do you have more than 2 or 3 tables racking at the same time. One ref could easily handle 3 to 4 tables. Even having him around for good hits or rules questions. Many times this year you would see some one on table 13 or 12 go all the way to the front of the room looking for someone to watch a hit or ask a question. If memory serves me correct in the old days you heard the call "Rack" maybe it is time to have the racker come back to eliminate the personalities and some players dislike for one another being so involved over the rack. Just as they challenge in Football maybe you give each player 2 re-racks a game that they can use on the racker at there discretion.
 
fat Albert said:
The best solution would be to have at the Open and other big tournaments maybe 4 rackers from BCA or some qualified entity in pool. Very seldom (I have been at the Open the last 5 yrs) do you have more than 2 or 3 tables racking at the same time. One ref could easily handle 3 to 4 tables. Even having him around for good hits or rules questions. Many times this year you would see some one on table 13 or 12 go all the way to the front of the room looking for someone to watch a hit or ask a question. If memory serves me correct in the old days you heard the call "Rack" maybe it is time to have the racker come back to eliminate the personalities and some players dislike for one another being so involved over the rack. Just as they challenge in Football maybe you give each player 2 re-racks a game that they can use on the racker at there discretion.
Click to expand...



good idea :)
 
fat Albert said:
The best solution would be to have at the Open and other big tournaments maybe 4 rackers from BCA or some qualified entity in pool. Very seldom (I have been at the Open the last 5 yrs) do you have more than 2 or 3 tables racking at the same time. One ref could easily handle 3 to 4 tables. Even having him around for good hits or rules questions. Many times this year you would see some one on table 13 or 12 go all the way to the front of the room looking for someone to watch a hit or ask a question. If memory serves me correct in the old days you heard the call "Rack" maybe it is time to have the racker come back to eliminate the personalities and some players dislike for one another being so involved over the rack. Just as they challenge in Football maybe you give each player 2 re-racks a game that they can use on the racker at there discretion.
Click to expand...

I like this but like another poster above, I think 9 ball as we now know it is on life support. 10 ball is a better game, to be sure, but a universal set of rules is needed and needs to be USED in any and all tournament situations. Head to head matchups as well, in my opinion.
 
Except now people are doing "Texas Express 10-ball"... Which is going to do to 10-ball what it did to 9-ball...

Brian
 
JD_Hogg said:
Is slow play and the rack wars killing interest in the US Open?

I hate slow play and cant much stand to watch it either. In the finals of this years US Open, at the start of the match, Ralf took about 5 mins to mull over a safe move on the 1 ball after he broke. When he finally shot he pretty much butchered the safe attempt. Then a game or 2 later he spent another 5 mins pondering a easy kick shot only to miss it completely when he finally shot. At that point I pretty much gave up watching.

Add in the fact guys now have to spend 10 mins just to rack the balls to their opponents liking is just ridiculous imo.

I’m a die hard pool fan and love to watch matches whenever I can. But this kinda crap turns me off right away and I stop watching. I can only guess what a casual fan, or fan to be might think of this.

How can you televise someone walking around a table for 10mins and expect people to get excited about it.

I’m not trying to pick on Ralf personally. I hear lots of stories about what a good guy he is and that he is also a good sport. I’ve seen him shoot under the clock so I know he can. I guess he just gets in the moment and prob doesn’t realize just how long he takes sometimes.

Personally I would like to see a 30 sec shot clock, with one 30sec extension per game. And a ref who also does the racking, and you take what you get. Heck, I almost thought Donny was gonna bust out an electron microscope to check his racks.

I realize it’s more than just this killing pool, but it sure cant help spark much interest either.
Click to expand...
You are making some great points and i'd like to add that they shouldn't use the metal racks again at the Open. I don't have anything against the racks other than the distracting sound they make. You could hear balls banging into the racks all over the room and it had to be distracting to the players who were getting ready to shoot a critical shot!

I'd like to see the Sardo rack brought back and when the balls are racked that's it.

I think a shot clock should be used on all of the matches and then it would be the same for everyone. There are certain players who are known for slow play and I just don't watch there matches. It gets pretty boring watching a guy look at every possible shot and situation every time he's at the table.

James
 
Could tapped tables be a solution to the slow racking issue? It seems to me that most players prefer a perfect rack, so if it takes a lot of time to get the rack positioned properly with all balls touching -- a tapped table might speed things up...

Of course there are probably other problems with tapped tables that I'm not considering.

Just curious.
 
JD_Hogg said:
Is slow play and the rack wars killing interest in the US Open?

I hate slow play and cant much stand to watch it either. In the finals of this years US Open, at the start of the match, Ralf took about 5 mins to mull over a safe move on the 1 ball after he broke. When he finally shot he pretty much butchered the safe attempt. Then a game or 2 later he spent another 5 mins pondering a easy kick shot only to miss it completely when he finally shot. At that point I pretty much gave up watching.

Add in the fact guys now have to spend 10 mins just to rack the balls to their opponents liking is just ridiculous imo.

I’m a die hard pool fan and love to watch matches whenever I can. But this kinda crap turns me off right away and I stop watching. I can only guess what a casual fan, or fan to be might think of this.

How can you televise someone walking around a table for 10mins and expect people to get excited about it.

I’m not trying to pick on Ralf personally. I hear lots of stories about what a good guy he is and that he is also a good sport. I’ve seen him shoot under the clock so I know he can. I guess he just gets in the moment and prob doesn’t realize just how long he takes sometimes.

Personally I would like to see a 30 sec shot clock, with one 30sec extension per game. And a ref who also does the racking, and you take what you get. Heck, I almost thought Donny was gonna bust out an electron microscope to check his racks.

I realize it’s more than just this killing pool, but it sure cant help spark much interest either.
Click to expand...

Ralph painstakingly mulled over each and every shot. he is a fantastic player and so is JA, but when they come up on the tv table its lights out for me.

It seems to me the US Open is not catering to the fans, but rather to the players and thats probably the way it should be.
 
Exellent point about the metal racks, SCCues. I found it very distracting listening to the balls being racked.

They wouldn't let players wear head phones but the invited more noise in the arena than was neccessary. This doesn't make sense.
 
dirtypool40 said:
Rack your own 9-ball (at least without PLENTY of stipulations) is a gaff.

"Loser Racks" 9-ball is dead for the pros. It's like having APA 6's play a race to 5 6-ball on a bar table to find out "who the best player is".

9-ball in general is nearly dead, and rightly so. At this point it's being held on life support because "the fans understand it" which is hogwash...

...THERE ARE NO DEDICATED 9-BALL FANS

And btw, it takes about 30 seconds to explain 10-ball, why it's a better all around test than 9-ball, and no more than 1-2 racks before even a casual pool player / fan can UNDERSTAND the difference in skill level and complexity.

If we want credibility, and to move pool to the next level of acceptance / understanding, let the pros play a "real" game, in a decent length race, with consistent rules.

Matches that decide something as prestigious as the "US OPEN" should NOT be decided in matches lasting 45 min to an hour. These matches should NOT be shortened even further (1991 DH / BH) to suit TV.

My vote, and not that you asked, is for 10-ball, rack your own, 1-2-3 in specified spots, 10-ball NEVER counts on the break.

Winner breaks.

Race to 15, win by 2. That should be a 2-3 hour match, with a reasonable rate of play, and YES!!! There needs to be the threat of a shot clock. Players had to re-learn how to play on faster cloth, or with tighter pockets, they should be able to adapt to a non-sloth-like rate of play.

Why does every round of a major golf tournament take 4 hours?

Every round of a major tennis tournament takes 2+....

In pool we KNOW you need a longer race, but we keep making them shorter for "micro-wave TV slots".

We make "regional" tour stops just long enough the local working players can't make it, and big time tour stops and "majors" short enough it's a coin flip at the top.

Shame on us....

Shame on us.
Click to expand...



good points.

I like 10 ball too, and I think most agree its more of a test of skill than 9 ball.
I would also love the longer races too but only if the tournament would become single elimination. I think that would add to the excitement of the matches.

But I think if were ever going to cater to the North American tv, non pool playing fans, then we'll need to switch to 8 ball. But thats another story.
 
Tapped tables are for Corey&co.Especially with winner breakes There should be judges racking or some volunteers who know how to rack properly. I think that many people would rack for free. There should always be a luck factor in breaking. Corey was a genius but it was boring as hell.super fast cloth, 7 balls on one half of the table and cb in the middle and 1 over the middle pocket. Even I could run out:boring2:
 
SCCues said:
...I'd like to see the Sardo rack brought back and when the balls are racked that's it...

James
Click to expand...

SArdo has issues of its own. Too easy to make balls, so the 9 has to be racked on the foot spot. Then the 1 goes easier. Also, if the table isn't prepped right, you are scrod.

I played a big event w/ Sardo once and my opponent won the first 2 games w/ th 9 going straight into the same corner pocket. When I checked the rack on game 3 there was a chasm behind the 9...and my opponent had inspected his rack every time too. I lost hill-hill. :sad:
 
dirtypool40 said:
My vote, and not that you asked, is for 10-ball, rack your own, 1-2-3 in specified spots, 10-ball NEVER counts on the break.
Click to expand...

I was curious about the 1-2-3 position you mentioned. Where should they be racked to get the fairest rack?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top