Responce to Jerry Forsyth Article

SpiderWebComm said:
Gambling isn't the downfall of pool. That's ridiculous. There's more $$$$ bet in baseball, football and basketball in one week than there is in 5 years of pool.

Pool is where it is because of the lack of a players organization, lack of a real tour with real $$$ that can get real sponsorships.

If UFC can bash-in the faces of fighters to the point where it looks like a MURDER SCENE--- and HARLEY DAVIDSON proudly plops their logo in the blood puddle, wake up people...... WAKE UP!

The moment someone pulls off what KT tried to do (but successfully) will place pool where it needs to be.
Click to expand...

PLEASE STOP... you cannot go to a baseball game and go over in the corner of the stadium and actually find someone openly making lines and taking bets on the game but you sure can at almost all of the pro pool tournaments. MLB would never allow it... sure money is bet on baseball but the players never go over and place a bet on the game they are about to play right before the opening pitch.

Where this open gambling on matches at pro pool tournaments you can be assured that you are NEVER going to find any real, long-term Corporate sponsors there because they simply do not want their name around what is currently going on in the pool world.

People trying to make $500 or $1,000 on a match is costing us $100,000 sponsors. Keep gambling at tournaments and we will keep playing for peanuts.
 
I'm sure there are many more people who consider themselves serious players who do not bet on Pool now then there were in 1973 when I started playing. Back then players at all levels played Pool for money. As evidenced on this forum there are a lot here who do not bet. I just don't think that betting on Pool is what is holding it back. Pool is a niche that is getting smaller all the time. I'm afraid it's not going anywhere like up real soon, maybe never. I've been here since 2006 and I've heard countless ideas on how to improve Pool's image, how to get the game up on a par with other games/sports.
It doesn't happen and not for lack of trying. The Six Pocket Pool League, etc. is about the best I've seen since I've been here but the better players all claim they can run huge scores all the time so it doesn't interest them. We really need something that will put the good and better players on similar footing. I wish I knew what it was.
 
I wrote about making an impact, on product manufacturers (sponsor money). There a few comments but my idea was forgotten

We Pool Players do have a vocie, albeit it a super split-up voice at the time being. Our governement has a collective voice with no ears, so we do as we are directed to do. Budweiser has a voice, but it also has eyes & ears, along with many other companies that sell snacks & beverages around the USA in thousands & thousands of Pool Rooms, Sports Bars & so on.

Maybe us Pool Players ought to band together.

From this day forward, no one that plays pool, drinks Budweiser. That will stack up to be a lot of Bud on the shelf. That boycott might get your local Pool Room's attention, but I don't think the 1000 players on the forum will make any difference to Budweiser... but it would if we spread the word & become a nation of Non-BUD drinkers, BUD will ask us why.

If we all start sending Budweiser, Miller Beer, the others beer makers too, Frito-Lay, the Candy companies, our local TV, Radio & Newspaper companies a letter, wanting to see coverage of our sport, that might get someone's attention. Go to your respective Pool Rooms, gather petitions with real signatures & send them to the above listed companies.

Talk to your Off-Line friends, get their names on a petition, send it to someone, asking for local & regional coverage of our sport. There are schools across the land, that now offer Billiards in their curriculum, ask your school or College for the sport to be offered in your area. Send your petitions to ESPN too, a couple hundred thousand names might get somone's attention. BCA now estimates 52 million Pool Players, of one degree or the other, that is a large number of folks. Those kind of numbers need some attention.

If people would just think, they would realize that TV is geared to numb a person into an easy chair & watch some shit. In any major city, the big Football Stadiums are built to accompany 80,000 fans. If there are 2 million people in the city, that means that 1,920,000 people weren't interested enough to go to the game. In my local area, the college football stadium only holds 20,000 people, yet the entire city has to watch the friggin' game on TV. That is horseshit being fed to a bunch of numbnuts. There are more Pool Players in Tulsa than the football fans who attend those ten-cent football games.

Let me hear it folks, let's become a voice. We have a great sport & we are great people.....whaddaya say????
 
DefiniteHasBeen said:
PLEASE STOP... you cannot go to a baseball game and go over in the corner of the stadium and actually find someone openly making lines and taking bets on the game but you sure can at almost all of the pro pool tournaments. MLB would never allow it... sure money is bet on baseball but the players never go over and place a bet on the game they are about to play right before the opening pitch.

Where this open gambling on matches at pro pool tournaments you can be assured that you are NEVER going to find any real, long-term Corporate sponsors there because they simply do not want their name around what is currently going on in the pool world.

People trying to make $500 or $1,000 on a match is costing us $100,000 sponsors. Keep gambling at tournaments and we will keep playing for peanuts.
Click to expand...

uhh but go to a football game and you can find betting action, but baseball...dude NO ONE BETS BASEBALL ANYWAY...the only line you get is 1.5 points either way wether its the yankees vs boston or yankees vs the royals....betting on baseball is retarted just because of that and no one does it so find another area of sports to support your comments...cuz baseball is a no go, no betting sport...who the hell wants a game and a half spread thats lousy, and a bad gamble.
 
It appears to be a bit a catch 22...

If playing professional pool actually paid a large portion of the pros a good living (mortgages & retirement) then maybe their would be a change in the public perception. "Man I want to grow up to be a pool player so I can have a nice house and car!" instead of being a basketball or baseball player.

But if these same players are degenerate gamblers and gamble away their 'savings' then even that wouldn't change the image and would only do more damage. Maybe I'm way off base but the fact that their is no money in the game is a double edged sword for those who don't have a gambling problem.

Why do the pros compete when there's no money in it? For the 'love of the game'?

But there is no debating Pool has carried a stigma with it which is the result of degenerate gamblers and low lives (thieves/cheats) that are apart of all walks of life and sports...not just pool. For whatever reason in Pool the perception is magnified.

It's a deep ingrained perception in American Culture as in evident in the Bob Seger song Mainstreet: "In the pool halls, the hustlers and the losers I used to watch 'em through the glass"
 
JD_Hogg said:
Hustling is on the same level as stealing. While that may be ok with you and a few others on here, the mass population who arn't watching pool think is slimmy. And there right.
Click to expand...

And what does the mass population think of poker? Let me give you a hint.. My mom now plays hold 'em with her friends.

Just a fact, 82% of americans say they gamble. Be it a lotto ticket, vegas, sports, poker, etc. Fact is, 82% aren't scared to lay their money down.

If they were playing for fun, not many people would watch the WSOP.
 
greyghost said:
uhh but go to a football game and you can find betting action, but baseball...dude NO ONE BETS BASEBALL ANYWAY...the only line you get is 1.5 points either way wether its the yankees vs boston or yankees vs the royals....betting on baseball is retarted just because of that and no one does it so find another area of sports to support your comments...cuz baseball is a no go, no betting sport...who the hell wants a game and a half spread thats lousy, and a bad gamble.
Click to expand...

Relax... I was just responding to SpiderWebs post. You know I am right because you went off on the baseball tangent and failed to respond to my point of gambling on matches at pro pool tournaments.

Again, I repeat, people trying to make $500 betting on matches at tournaments are cotsing us $100,000 sponsors, period.
 
Run Out Player said:
It appears to be a bit a catch 22...

If playing professional pool actually paid a large portion of the pros a good living (mortgages & retirement) then maybe their would be a change in the public perception. "Man I want to grow up to be a pool player so I can have a nice house and car!" instead of being a basketball or baseball player.

But if these same players are degenerate gamblers and gamble away their 'savings' then even that wouldn't change the image and would only do more damage. Maybe I'm way off base but the fact that their is no money in the game is a double edged sword for those who don't have a gambling problem.

Why do the pros compete when there's no money in it? For the 'love of the game'?

But there is no debating Pool has carried a stigma with it which is the result of degenerate gamblers and low lives (thieves/cheats) that are apart of all walks of life and sports...not just pool. For whatever reason in Pool the perception is magnified.

It's a deep ingrained perception in American Culture as in evident in the Bob Seger song Mainstreet: "In the pool halls, the hustlers and the losers I used to watch 'em through the glass"
Click to expand...

put the money thats in pool in golf the pga tour.
and those guys would do the same things pro pool players do.
gamble and all the other bull shit that goes on.
 
JAM said:
The majority of pool folk, if not ALL, that make a profit are people like you. You can be sure that the pro players themselves aren't getting fat from staying on that tournament trail and being tournament soldiers. Why do you think they have savers? If there was money in pool, savers wouldn't even be considered.

Even the industry members in pool today are suffering, which is why only one or two American pros are sponsored with money (not product). Only one or two American pros can afford to play pool in a tournament in Qatar.



Man, I appreciate what you are trying to do for pool. It is very admirable, but you're looking at the current state of affairs with blinders on. I'm sorry to say that, but it's the truth.

Please tell me that you're not Hopkins' good friend, Big Mike.



I hate to say it, but it just might take a negative image a la Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding to get pool on the front pages. Ever since that tragedy, ice skating took off like a rocket.

Pool is what it is, a recreational game. The leagues are where it's at today. Weekend tournaments at regional tours are also fun. Are they money-makers? Nope. But they are keeping pool alive. :smile:

Go to any so-called pro event and look in the stands, look at the numbers. I don't care if the tournament is in Galveston, Verona, NY, Vegas, Norfolk, or California. The two exceptions to this rule would be Hopkins' Super Billiards Expo and Greg's Derby City Classic. :wink:

The majority of spectators at pool events today are friends and families of the pro players.

I could elaborate about the infighting that exists today, but everybody will continue to follow the pied piper blindly. Someday that pied piper may cease to exist for pool when reality smacks them in the face. :frown:

Ten years ago, I was very enthusiastic about pool. After I got hit with the sad reality of pool, when I was chewed up and spit out by industry member(s) who I had helped for FREE, when I accumulated pool credit card debt, when my business suffered, I finally saw pool for what it is: a rich man's high.

Nobody can survive in pool today without money, and the ones with the money will call the shots from here on in. Nobody in these United States is getting rich off of pool. To make a living off of it, you'd need to rake in well over $100,000 because one-third to 50 percent of what you win is eaten up by expenses. Don't believe me? Ask a pro player who goes to two, three, and four tournaments every single month. :wink:
Click to expand...


Very well said. Truth is, unfortunately, not very many people are making a "living" playing pool, if you take gambling out of the question. Of course, if your idea of making a "living" is sharing rides to tournaments far away, rooming with 3 of your friends with 2 double beds, and winning enough to cover your expenses and maybe buy a new pair of jeans, then yes - lots of people are making a living.

It is sad, I agree. I wish more players could make a good living playing professional pool. And maybe one day that will happen. Maybe all players don't get into pool BECAUSE of the gambling, but many do eventually gamble. Mostly because they want to do what they love and make some money. Maybe a few wouldn't gamble.. but who are we kidding? Most love action, just like any other American. My dad included. I've watched him and his friends bet hundreds on whether a guy could flick a quarter off the side of a building and into a trash can 30 yards away. The allure of easy money. It's not gambling that's bad per se. (by the way, the guy got the trash can at least 3 out of 15 tries :)

Tournament pool is just not where it should be. With the exception of maybe 5-10 players, the rest aren't making a living. Getting a free cue here and there does not pay the rent, it does not help send your kids to college. And if anyone thinks the WPBA women are making a much better living, check again. Maybe 5 of them could sustain life based off their tournament winnings alone. I'm not knocking them, I'm just pointing out the sad reality.

Personally, I agree that the gambling side of this game could help push the game to the masses, if marketed properly. Just like poker. I also agree that the image comes across negative to certain corporate "possible" sponsors. Just like it did in poker, until Moneymaker. Its all marketing.

Fifteen years ago, poker wasn't pulling in sponsor money. But, luckily it got marketed correctly - and now it is. There are still many, many shady people in that world, way more than in pool. Cheating goes all the way up to the top, but that doesn't effect their image? And why? Again, marketing, and naivety. The General Public® doesn't know (or care) any more about the "dumping" and gambling in pool than they do about the marking dye and signaling used in poker. To think they are not attracted to pool because of the gambling is fallacious. If marketed correctly, the gambling element of pool could very well boost it to heights unseen.

Sorry if I jumped around a bit with my ideas... I'm in France, and the wine is good and cheap :)
 
DefiniteHasBeen said:
Relax... I was just responding to SpiderWebs post. You know I am right because you went off on the baseball tangent and failed to respond to my point of gambling on matches at pro pool tournaments.

Again, I repeat, people trying to make $500 betting on matches at tournaments are cotsing us $100,000 sponsors, period.
Click to expand...

I was busy I'm offshore, but thanks for reminding me. What do you expect that the players just suck it up and take the s**t payouts? Yea go chalk up a few thousand and go play the us open and then get 60th place. Now dumping is another story, but just betting or players making savers...well I don't blame them. Its one of the toughest livings on the planet. Up today, busted flat tomorrow.

Not to mention all the pro golfers who gamble, lets not even get into the poker thing...every adult in the dam nation gambles...all the grandmas take a charter bus to the casino to go DUMP their 200 bucks.
 
Its absolutely marketing! Take anything good or bad and market it properly and it can work! use the gambling as a marketing edge and people will love it! hell come on people.................why do so many people read trash talk magazines? people love drama and danger. use what pool has to its advantage! it still takes someone with committment and money and connections to get those things in play though!
 
KoolKat9Lives said:
At what period was pool in the USA at its zenith?

Why did it peak at that time and why did it fall?
Click to expand...

Pool was used to be a game played by the rich and powerful. Ornate billiard table used to occupy a very important spot in someone's house. It used to be fashionable to have one in your house specially if the woodwork was exceptional. Sad to say, any game abandoned by those who has the money and influence usually goes down.
 
Last edited:
"Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity".

"Rags to Rifleman" has a good example that the nature necessary to be a successful pool player is the same reason why nothing ever gets going.

When one of pools pros goes to prison for drugs automatically the normal person (who doesn't know better) says "really you said the sun rose in the east today"?

Why pool doesn't embrace its image and run with it is amazing to me rather than fighting it all the time.

I think reality shows are boring but a reality show about a pool hall would be great. Look at all the trash TV puts on and how it sells. "Housewife Whores of Crazy ville USA", "Ex cons fixing motorcycles" and "WWF turned bounty hunters" are cleaning up.

A person who did 2 1/2 years in Hanoi Hilton said a real prison movie (the movie Hanoi Hilton) would show a guy in a cell counting how many seconds a drop of sweat took to run down your body a filled pool hall with all the characters practically writes itself.

The "Ball breakers" game show had terrible players but I watched every episode hoping they could find somebody who could run 2 balls.

A friend of mine who only plays pool at one bar and always on the same table could name 5 female pros but could only name one male pro (Earl Strickland for his fine play not his antics). Why because he doesn't use internet but watches all the old ESPN classic reruns.
 
The Saw said:
The players he is thinking of live in a van down by the river or live in a cardboard box and ride Greyhounds to tournaments.
Click to expand...

The Saw? No. I don't think the saw, has seen anything. Way off base I don't think so. I have a conversation with THE BEST living rotaion game player ALIVE and I am right.

Chris is not and will NEVER been the face of pool, unless he changes his attitude, and his professionalisim.

Chris you can beat me with the orange crush, but, you are NOT what pool is looking for. PROFESSIONAL pool that is. There are gamblers that love you dude, and *I* RESPECT your game, but it is NOT that I am trying to show as a true professional player.

The Saw? I am *WAY* off base, I think you need to go back and read everyhting again, then think for a few YEARS then you will realize your mistakes.
 
@jdlough

Virginia is scheduled to ban smoking on December 1st, 2009.

It's about time IMHO, maybe more people will play if their clothes don't carry that foul stench on them when they come home.

I'm sure the room owners that want to find a loophole in the law will be able to do so. Laws are seemingly often written so that one can twist it to a particular situation.

Opinions on the smoke-free issue are many and often polarized in nature. It will be interesting to see if law enforcement acencies will actually enforce the ban.
 
Out on a limb....

Ok, so I just came from a tournament, that I went two and out in... After running two racks and missing 4 9 balls I lost! but thats ok...


let me say this. SOME of you have valid points, but for the most part, the gamble is the problem. end of stroy. NO ONE has an arguement that is valid. I will Challenge ANYONE to ANNNNNNNNY dollar amount (yes the pool player comming out in me) that ANNNNNNNNY corporate company will tell you they will NOT sponsor pool becuase of the gamble, the hustle, the sharks and so on..


I was in a pool hall today that had a news paper from 1956 in it, that siad, "watch out you pool sharks "NO NAME" is in town and will beat you"

this from 1956 warned local players NOT to play this "NO NAME" because he was going to hustle you, from 1956 this in a NEWS PAPER just goes to show you that the gamble hurt the game.

YES, even I gamble at the lottery, poker (weekly), and casino games (monthly). But that is KNOWN as a gamble. When I run a tournament one thing that I stress to players that we need to lag for the break because this is a game of SKILL not a gamble. THUS no flipping a coin for a break. BECAUSE it is a game as a skill........... Skill, yes I said skill....

is it not'?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top