If 2 players of equil skill are playing their best wont luck rule the outcome of the match with the rules of nine ball the way they are ?
does luck rule.....
- Thread starter Mowem down
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I would say yes, but under these circumstances I would say that is true for any game/sport. Nevertheless it is very unlikely that two players will play to exact same level at same time.
But there is always luck in 9 ball, but not in the way most people think.
my thoughts: when two players of equal caliber play they arent relying on lucky roll or chance if you will. they play their shots taking everything into account based on their experiences over the years. when a shot doesnt happen as intended then the offshoot is that which we call luck, or roll, or perhaps chance. that random occurence we call luck is an infrequent part of a champions game, and i dont think it rules the outcome for either player. but if it happens to you then you take it and go on. if it happens against you then it was out of your control.
Luck is one variable, but there are many others that come into play, in addition to skill. We all know that we ourselves can play differently from one day to another--fatigue/alertness, focus, internal distractions, and other factors affect our shotmaking. In addition, personal characteristics such as our response to setbacks or bad luck are important in competition. IMO it isn't possible to rank luck against all the other variables that can impact the outcome of an individual contest between players of equivalent skill levels.
Those are some very well stated replys, but I must disagree. To me, at the very least it would simply come down to who was getting the best layouts after the break, everything else being equil with 2 top players. I dont have a answer for what i feel is a problem with the game. but I do think the chance factor is somthing that makes pool sceme like its not a real sport to some. I play the game and it bugs me...
I was watching the semis and the finals a few weeks back at a tourny where I live. It draws most of the good players. The last 2 matches looked totaly one sided as far as all the rolls went. Somthing really didnt sceme right with the way the matches went down but what do I know Im a gardner not a player....
I was watching the semis and the finals a few weeks back at a tourny where I live. It draws most of the good players. The last 2 matches looked totaly one sided as far as all the rolls went. Somthing really didnt sceme right with the way the matches went down but what do I know Im a gardner not a player....
The most important "random occurrence" happens once in every single game-the break. Luck is a huge determining factor in whether a ball is pocketed on the break, whether a shot on the lowest ball is available, and whether the balls are lying in a runnable position.
I think if two given players were exactly equal in speed, the player who got the better layouts after the break would win every time. That's where luck comes into the game the most at the top level.
Luck rules, but it has nothing at all to do with the rules of nine ball.
The luck factor depends on which player gets the best rolls when breaking or busting up clusters. The rules have nothing to do with it.
Nope. the guy that
This is how I feel also. The break is the variable that decides matches when two world class players are playing their best.
One reason I wondered why a game like 9 ball has turned into the definitive game to determine world champions. Irving Crane and Mosconi and the rest of the greats would be turning over in their grave if they knew how their game has evolved. (or should I say "de"volved.)
i think it depends on how long you play. the rolls even out over time and eventually the slightest edge skill wise should show up.
In a match where one player makes a ball 82 times, out of 83 tries, on the Break Shot, I would be hard pressed to say that he is LUCKY. I would saythat he must know what he is doing. Making a ball & getting the other balls to cooperate too, might have a little "fortune" tied to that feat.
Van Boening's expertise with the Break Shot, the Straight In, the Draw, the Cut Shot & Leave Play, garnered him a win.
Once these caliber of players start putting racks together, their opponent is just about helpless.
Van Boening's expertise with the Break Shot, the Straight In, the Draw, the Cut Shot & Leave Play, garnered him a win.
Once these caliber of players start putting racks together, their opponent is just about helpless.
Color of money quote...
for some players, luck itself, is an art
I win when the other guy misses. No mystery to my game. But some guys make their own opportunities.
So if you want to know what part luck plays for two equal opponents, it gets less and less as the player talent goes up.
Also, the game certainly matters. Nobody lucks 150 balls in straight pool. But a short race of 9-ball with alternating breaks...things can happen that only God predicts.
For what it is worth, I think luck is insignificant. The better you are, the more stuff you see. That which is a mystery to some becomes a certainty to you.
for some players, luck itself, is an art
I win when the other guy misses. No mystery to my game. But some guys make their own opportunities.
So if you want to know what part luck plays for two equal opponents, it gets less and less as the player talent goes up.
Also, the game certainly matters. Nobody lucks 150 balls in straight pool. But a short race of 9-ball with alternating breaks...things can happen that only God predicts.
For what it is worth, I think luck is insignificant. The better you are, the more stuff you see. That which is a mystery to some becomes a certainty to you.
lucky #$#@%!
two thoughts on this - The better you play the less luck there is - Ben Hogan said - The more i practice,the luckier i get
isnt "getting a bad roll" another way of saying "made a bad shot". its not about luck. its about the player who is ready to take full advantage of a situation. if they are truely playing at the same speed then the match will be decided by attitude, mental toughness and the desire who win, not luck.
brian
Getting a "bad roll" doesn't necessarily mean you made a "bad shot".
As I said in my first post, the rolls you get when breaking or busting clusters can mean the difference. Those rolls can not always be predicted but if they go wrong, they are not necessarily a bad shot.
when you break out a cluster you should know what the result is going to be and be pretty sure youre going to have a shot when you are done otherwise you should leave it alone. if you just hope for the best and bust it up then you are just relying on luck and if you dont get the result you want then it was a bad shot and you can only blame yourself. watch as clusters are broken up in a long 14.1 run. no luck. just skill. as for the break i have seen pros time out very consistant breaks and when you havent found the spot its time to use your skill to make an adjustment. again no luck involved.
brian
If your the one at the table and something funny happens. It must have taken some kind of skill for you to be there. It's hard to get lucky, sitting in your chair.