Wrist twisting... is it worth changing?

HitHrdNDraw

HitHrdNDraw

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am a decent player, B+ speed and have been playing for about 10 years... I have always twisted my wrist inwards on my forward stroke. I think this is compensation for not having my elbow completely perpendicular to the cue stick... I am not talking about a little twist either... its pretty marked... When I try to shoot the right way, its like learning how to walk all over again and its very frustrating.... after 10 years, how long do you think it would take to change this habit and is it really worth it? I think my status as a B+ player would improve if i had more time, i dont think its a result of my mechanics.. Thoughts?
 
Poor mechanics WILL limit your ability. That wrist twisting will cause inconsistency.

You know it needs changing or you wouldn't be posting about it. But then you go into denial and in the last line of your post you say that you don't think that mechanics are not holding you back. Accept the truth that you need to change what you're doing. You KNOW that the wrist is holding you back. You KNOW when you're playing that you're doing it wrong and it's causeing you to miss shots just knowing that the wrist twist will screw something up sooner or later. It's in the back of your mind all the time. Now you've put it on the table so make the next move to dissect it and make it right.

Get a lesson from someone who really knows the mechanics of the game and find out what needs to be changed in the placement of your feet, in your body position, in your arm and in your grip.

Sure it'll be a pain in the a$$ for a while but the rewards will be there if you put in the effort. You CAN BE the player you want to be!!
 
Jim is absolutely correct. If you keep doing what you've always done, you will keep getting the same results. Are you content where you are, or do you really want to move forward?

Any change in your mechanics is going to require a period of time before it becomes natural. And during that time, you may actually see your game drop off. Is it worth it to take a short term hit for a long term benefit? Only you can answer that one.

Steve
 
HitHrdNDraw...Like has been posted already, poor mechanics are responsible for an inconsistent stroke (at best), and often severe swings in playing speed (at worst). How long does it take to correct a stroke flaw like yours (which is a grip pressure issue)? It takes as long as it takes...but you'll make no headway until you decide to get some help from a professional instructor who used video review. With some proper instructional help you might be able to fix your problem in a month. I see you're from the Philly area. I come there pretty frequently, and would be happy to work with you privately, or you could attend one of our road show pool schools. I have one planned for Feb. up in Edison, NJ (50 miles from you), at Sandcastle Billiards. Pool school is one of the best "fixes" for stroke problems, regardless of what they, because you learn how diagnose what is wrong, and how to correct it right now (in one shot), rather than going in and out of slumps. PM me if you're interested.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

HitHrdNDraw said:
I am a decent player, B+ speed and have been playing for about 10 years... I have always twisted my wrist inwards on my forward stroke. I think this is compensation for not having my elbow completely perpendicular to the cue stick... I am not talking about a little twist either... its pretty marked... When I try to shoot the right way, its like learning how to walk all over again and its very frustrating.... after 10 years, how long do you think it would take to change this habit and is it really worth it? I think my status as a B+ player would improve if i had more time, i dont think its a result of my mechanics.. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
 
I used to have a wrist twist in my stroke.. then I got educated.. and learned that the twist is a gripping error

you are gripping your cue to tight

loosen it up I get 1 to 2 inches of slide as my cue moves through my grip hand..

and I am A LOT more accurate than I was before..

good luck:grin-square:
 
well what causes that??

Thinking about that wrist twist issue, I think its a culprit of learning using BHE or at least it makes good sense IMOP. The arm wants to start to swing out of the natural alignment with the body and the wrist twist is just the shooter trying to compensate wether correctly or incorrectly.

Could that be a good reason? For I don't see the point of the body just automatically yanking the wrist around if everything was in line true to aim from the beginning./?
 
Ghost,
We find a lot of students in our classes who do things for absolutely no reason, and often aren't aware they are doing them. A large majority of them are surprised when we do the video analysis, and they see some of these things.

Very few have ever actually seen themselves shoot, so they don't know the things they are doing. This is one reason why the video analysis we do with each student is so important. Once they see the flaws in their stroke, they become fairly easy to correct. It is amazing to see the difference between a first day video, and one shot on the final day of class.

Steve
 
Absolutely! It's also a benefit for 'instructors' who have never known the easiest and best way to utilize video review, for the benefit of their students. Nothing like "seeing" yourself on TV! LOL

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

pooltchr said:
Ghost,
We find a lot of students in our classes who do things for absolutely no reason, and often aren't aware they are doing them. A large majority of them are surprised when we do the video analysis, and they see some of these things.

Very few have ever actually seen themselves shoot, so they don't know the things they are doing. This is one reason why the video analysis we do with each student is so important. Once they see the flaws in their stroke, they become fairly easy to correct. It is amazing to see the difference between a first day video, and one shot on the final day of class.

Steve
Click to expand...
 
I'd just like to clarify what is being advocated here on AZB...

I understand not wanting to do it on 95% of your shots and keep your mechanics consistent & fundamental.

I was told by probably the best player I've come in contact with that on certain shots that require english your can twist your wrist to get more action on the CB and that it was okay(as well as drop your elbow). Again this is not the norm just on a few select shots that require english.

This advice is from a player who has been playing probably 40 years and has beaten another very strong player I know in straightpool with a score of 150 to -1 and didn't break a sweat doing it. I've seen his speed first hand and find it very hard to believe he doesn't know what he's talking about and that he's offering up bad advice.

I can also almost swear I've seen the pros do it on occasional shots...

At no time and on no shots should be twisting your wrist to put more juice on the CB?

Am I getting this right?
 
Twisting the wrist on any shot isn't necessary. English can be applied without a wrist twist, depending on the angle of attack of your cue stick, and the point of contact on the object ball.

Twisting your wrist adds a variable that can cause other problems.

If it isn't necessary, why even consider it? There are other opptions.

Steve
 
Run Out Player...So, if you're agreeing that on 95% of your shots, you should not "twist" your wrist, and/or drop your elbow...what exactly is the argument? Concentrate on the 95% part, and forget about the baloney. Twisting your wrist will NOT put anything extra on the CB...just as dropping your elbow will NOT do anything extra for power (the CB is gone from the tip in 1/1000th of a second). Go with accuracy and repeatability, and now you've got a platform to play, and win from. There will always be that VERY small segment of players who can perform amazing feats with the CB. That doesn't mean they know what they're talking about, when it comes to "why" those things happen. All they really know, is that they can make the action happen, that they are talking about. That doesn't mean they can, or should, try to teach it to others.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Run Out Player said:
I'd just like to clarify what is being advocated here on AZB...

I understand not wanting to do it on 95% of your shots and keep your mechanics consistent & fundamental.

I was told by probably the best player I've come in contact with that on certain shots that require english your can twist your wrist to get more action on the CB and that it was okay(as well as drop your elbow). Again this is not the norm just on a few select shots that require english.

This advice is from a player who has been playing probably 40 years and has beaten another very strong player I know in straightpool with a score of 150 to -1 and didn't break a sweat doing it. I've seen his speed first hand and find it very hard to believe he doesn't know what he's talking about and that he's offering up bad advice.

I can also almost swear I've seen the pros do it on occasional shots...

At no time and on no shots should be twisting your wrist to put more juice on the CB?

Am I getting this right?
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
Run Out Player...So, if you're agreeing that on 95% of your shots, you should not "twist" your wrist, and/or drop your elbow...what exactly is the argument? Concentrate on the 95% part, and forget about the baloney. Twisting your wrist will NOT put anything extra on the CB...just as dropping your elbow will NOT do anything extra for power (the CB is gone from the tip in 1/1000th of a second). Go with accuracy and repeatability, and now you've got a platform to play, and win from. There will always be that VERY small segment of players who can perform amazing feats with the CB. That doesn't mean they know what they're talking about, when it comes to "why" those things happen. All they really know, is that they can make the action happen, that they are talking about. That doesn't mean they can, or should, try to teach it to others.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

scott i beg to differ, and have proved this with many students just ask them, but you teach something completely different to me.

and nothing bad meant by what i say, keep up the work..
 
Lee...Thanks, and I respect what you do as well. We may differ as to what we believe...but we have the same goals...to help our students become the best poolplayers they can become. Perhaps one of these days we'll cross paths and swap teaching techniques! Who knows...one (or both) of us might learn something new! :eek::grin:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

lee brett said:
scott i beg to differ, and have proved this with many students just ask them, but you teach something completely different to me.

and nothing bad meant by what i say, keep up the work..
Click to expand...
 
Twisting your wrist additional in/while your stroke-sequence is just another way building a new problem-
Usualy everyone is training and doing drills to pinpoint the source of the problem and minimize the amount of them. So don t add new, unnecessary things.
Twisting your wrist wouldn t bring you any advantage at all (imO).

lg
Ingo
 
Scott Lee said:
Lee...Thanks, and I respect what you do as well. We may differ as to what we believe...but we have the same goals...to help our students become the best poolplayers they can become. Perhaps one of these days we'll cross paths and swap teaching techniques! Who knows...one (or both) of us might learn something new! :eek::grin:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Hi Scott,

Yes we never stop learning, and we both have the same goal to help are students, with the passion we have to improve peoples game, and we both have the same goal.

hope to meet you 1 day

take care lee
 
Superstitious behaviors

Superstitious behaviors are things we do that give us confidence but have nothing to do with accomplishing a goal. The baseball player Willie Stargil used to wind his bat backwards before he stepped to the plate and hit another home run. Over time Willie came to believe that it was necessary to wind the bat backwards or he would not get a good hit. Home run percentages are low for everyone and any little thing that may have helped last time is used next time. Watch most any ball game and you will see many such behaviors.

The problem with superstitious behaviors is that we come to have such a strong belief in them that if we do not use these behaviors we lose confidence and then miss. This too reinforces the idea that the behavior was needed, some times some places.

In general, if the behavior does not harm the activity it can be ignored unless it leads to a loss of confidence. Something like a wrist twist would negatively affect one’s game so I would think it should be removed.

The other problem with superstitious behavior is that the person comes to believe that they are useful in other areas of their life, this too can cause problems.

In Willie’s case the behavior actually might have helped a little by loosening up his muscles. Most superstitious behavior are like this, they just might help and that is what reinforces the behavior when he gets that elusive home run. He found it the first time when he reviewed his behavior after getting that home run and thought what did I do differently? -- for Willie it was to wind up backwards. In the next several times at bat he found he got the best hit when he wound up so now it is part of his routine. In fact if he doesn't wind up before batting he looses confidence and gets a poor hit. Now it is necessary for Willie. And who can argure with his home run percentages!

So when your professional pool playing buddy says that X,Y, or Z is a very real part of his game but it is not in the standards for how to play, you need to look into the matter very carefully. The advice you get from a professional instructor might be more useful because these people study the game (not the person) for ways to improve performance.
 
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HitHrdNDraw said:
I am a decent player, B+ speed and have been playing for about 10 years... I have always twisted my wrist inwards on my forward stroke. I think this is compensation for not having my elbow completely perpendicular to the cue stick... I am not talking about a little twist either... its pretty marked... When I try to shoot the right way, its like learning how to walk all over again and its very frustrating.... after 10 years, how long do you think it would take to change this habit and is it really worth it? I think my status as a B+ player would improve if i had more time, i dont think its a result of my mechanics.. Thoughts?
Click to expand...


Just remember this, Earl and JA both twist their wrist in a little, I wish I ciuld after what they both told me about it.
 
Johnny Archer twists his wrist on every shot.

I know "don't do it" is the technical answer, but do you stroke straight? If so, your failure to get to A rating has nothing with your twist.

Shoot about 50 long straight-ins. If you make the ball with the CB landing flat with no spin, I wouldn't sweat it at ALL nor would it affect your progression. Focus more on speed control, positioning, and aiming.
 
Buddy Hall admitted once that it was used on some shots. There are shots that I do once in a while, on which, I use what I call "swipe english". Its done by turing your wrist as you go through the ball. It puts a little more curve on the CB, sort of like a mini masse, without having to elevate the cue much. I used it a lot on bar tables with the big CBs.
 
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