BHE on a 9 Ball Break

[Fatboy]

I dont break the balls very good, never have. But I was thinking about pool the other day and breaking the balls playing 9 ball.

Has anyone here ever thought about getting the cue set where you want it and pivioting the back end of the cue before the break to change the response of the CB on the break?

I have no opinion on this, I havent tried it. I'm going to make this a poll, perhaps its common, or i'm nuts. Or both. I'm really curious what the smart guys think here on this topic. I know very little about breaking(or the rack)-I just never took the time to learn.

best

Fatboy

 

[Jaden]

I did for a long time....

I dont break the balls very good, never have. But I was thinking about pool the other day and breaking the balls playing 9 ball.

Has anyone here ever thought about getting the cue set where you want it and pivioting the back end of the cue before the break to change the response of the CB on the break?

I have no opinion on this, I havent tried it. I'm going to make this a poll, perhaps its common, or i'm nuts. Or both. I'm really curious what the smart guys think here on this topic. I know very little about breaking(or the rack)-I just never took the time to learn.

best

Fatboy

Yeah for a while I would set up on the first diamond in on the head string and use BHE to put a tip of inside english.... it worked well, but not unless the rack is tight...

Jaden

 

[Majic]

Never tried it myself but have heard that Lassiter did something like that and he was suppose to have a killer 9 ball break. Thats THE reason I have been searching for footage of Lassiter.... to see how he broke 9ball.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Backhand english is just a way to put sidespin on the cue ball. I think adding sidespin (or any kind of spin) to the break shot would just reduce power and accuracy.

But the principle of BHE can be put to advantage on the break. If you're careful to bridge at the exact length of your pivot point you'll automatically "use BHE" to correct for the squirt caused by any accidental offcenter hit.

pj
chgo

 

[D_Lewis]

I know an excellent player that throws the cue ball into the rack while playing 9 ball. Erik Hjorleifson from Canada. Breaks awesome!

Good post Eric,
-dan

 

[Paul Mon]

Yes

If your pivont point matches your grip point at impact any off center hit on the cue ball still hits the 1 ball flush. Saw it on the new VEOP Dr Dave video

Paul Mon.......... one of the more than few things I got out of this video but never saw in print on a forum. But is so obvious. DOO!!!

 

[Patrick Johnson]

If your pivont point matches your grip point at impact any off center hit on the cue ball still hits the 1 ball flush. Saw it on the new VEOP Dr Dave video

Paul Mon.......... one of the more than few things I got out of this video but never saw in print on a forum. But is so obvious. DOO!!!

Yes, but to be clear, this isn't BHE that you try to do; it's just what happens if your pivot point happens to match your bridge length. If you know exactly how long your pivot length is, you could adjust your breaking bridge to that length and get this helpful effect.

pj
chgo

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Align your body to the outside of the CTE line (from CB to the head ball). You can then offset your tip and pivot TO center and not away from center. Doing so gives you a perfect replacement and best chances of a squat.

This also eliminates having to figure your pivot point, worry about deflection or spin.

BHE isn't always pivoting away from center.... sometimes you're starting from an offset position trying to pivot TO the center.

 

[Johnnyt]

I dont break the balls very good, never have. But I was thinking about pool the other day and breaking the balls playing 9 ball.

Has anyone here ever thought about getting the cue set where you want it and pivioting the back end of the cue before the break to change the response of the CB on the break?

I have no opinion on this, I havent tried it. I'm going to make this a poll, perhaps its common, or i'm nuts. Or both. I'm really curious what the smart guys think here on this topic. I know very little about breaking(or the rack)-I just never took the time to learn.

best

Fatboy

If I had a back as bad as you have I'd be practicing the softer break in 9-ball. It works. Have you noticed how many pro players have taken a lot off their break? As more of them see that it works they will follow. Much easier to keep the QB in the center of the table too. Johnnyt

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Spidey:
...sometimes you're starting from an offset position trying to pivot TO the center.

Why not simply start at center?

pj
chgo

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Why not simply start at center?

pj
chgo

Because it's far easier to align yourself to an edge of a sphere than the center of a sphere. It's a definitive point (high contrast).

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Spidey:
...sometimes you're starting from an offset position trying to pivot TO the center.

Why not simply start at center?

Because it's far easier to align yourself to an edge of a sphere than the center of a sphere. It's a definitive point (high contrast).

OK, I understand that edges are easier to see exactly than centers (although you're aligning the CB's center with the OB's edge).

But then you have to place your stick on a line that's an exact distance offcenter and then pivot in exactly the right way so that when your tip points to centerball on the CB it's also pointing at centerball on the OB.

Doesn't this undefined stick placement and pivot kind of negate the advantage of the well-defined initial center-to-edge reference line? Or are there more details to the technique that cover that?

pj
chgo

 

[Jaden]

I do something similar now using a sort of FHE...

Because it's far easier to align yourself to an edge of a sphere than the center of a sphere. It's a definitive point (high contrast).

I line up like I'm going to hit the one ball into the ten or nine or whatever is directly behind the one, then I shift my bridge hand to the inside like a half inch and then line up on center CB from there, it let's you perfectly squat the CB and brings the one ball up towards the front of the table almost every time (tenball rack).

Jaden

 

[BRKNRUN]

Because it's far easier to align yourself to an edge of a sphere than the center of a sphere. It's a definitive point (high contrast).

However...why pivot from the side when you can just pivot from the bottom?

Bottom of CB to Bottom of OB....


My guess is that Fatboy was after if there is any advantage to spinning the CB on the break....I would say there may be an advantage to pocketing the 1 ball in the side, but you can just modify where you hit on the 1 to get the same effect.

I think you have more controle over no spin and modifying the contact point vs trying to effect the rack through spin...

Problem is...as soon as you figure out the spot...your opponent moves the rack up or back just slightly to change "the spot"

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I line up like I'm going to hit the one ball into the ten or nine or whatever is directly behind the one, then I shift my bridge hand to the inside like a half inch and then line up on center CB from there, it let's you perfectly squat the CB and brings the one ball up towards the front of the table almost every time (tenball rack).

Jaden

You're adding some sidespin?

If you hit centerball on the CB and hit the 1 ball square, then this is just a roundabout way of finally aiming center-to-center, isn't it?

pj
chgo

 

[SpiderWebComm]

OK, I understand that edges are easier to see exactly than centers (although you're aligning the CB's center with the OB's edge).

But then you have to place your stick on a line that's an exact distance offcenter and then pivot in exactly the right way so that when your tip points to centerball on the CB it's also pointing at centerball on the OB.

Doesn't this undefined stick placement and pivot kind of negate the advantage of the well-defined initial center-to-edge reference line? Or are there more details to the technique that cover that?

pj
chgo

The defined stick placement is a 1/2 ball offset. I'm not getting into the pivot details. The purpose for my post was to say -- yes, there is a well defined technique out there for the break. I'm gonna leave it at that. Find someone who knows and learn more about it.

 

[Ponytail]

I know an excellent player that throws the cue ball into the rack while playing 9 ball. Erik Hjorleifson from Canada. Breaks awesome!

Good post Eric,
-dan

Am I the only one who's confused by this statement? Two things.. Throw is a term used to describe using the spin of the CB to add more friction and 'grab' and object ball, so it takes a slightly different path than the geometric path it should have taken.

I.E. I couldn't see enough of the ball to cut it in, so I had to throw it in, using a lot of inside english.

So the use of the word throw in the above quote is confusing to me, unless the person actually takes the cue ball and throws it into the rack, which I think is not legal. (That's a joke son...)

Can someone please describe what is meant by 'throwing' the CB into the rack?

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

The break has got to be the most erratic part of my game. With that said, I try to keep it as simple as possible. I don't want to follow, draw and I especially don't want side-spin. Now, if I'm not making a ball on the break and I'm way behind or way ahead, I might try something different but on the whole, I want a pop-n-squat. I can't see how side-spin is going to help make that happen. If I see people successfully cut-breaking, I'll switch to that (assuming my break isn't working well) but that's just about it.

 

[Jaden]

Sometimes, people refer to squirt as throw...

Am I the only one who's confused by this statement? Two things.. Throw is a term used to describe using the spin of the CB to add more friction and 'grab' and object ball, so it takes a slightly different path than the geometric path it should have taken.

I.E. I couldn't see enough of the ball to cut it in, so I had to throw it in, using a lot of inside english.

So the use of the word throw in the above quote is confusing to me, unless the person actually takes the cue ball and throws it into the rack, which I think is not legal. (That's a joke son...)

Can someone please describe what is meant by 'throwing' the CB into the rack?

I think he was referring to squirt.... Sometimes squirt is referred to as throw off of the initial aimline when using BHE, so he was probably referring to throwing (squirting) the CB into the center of the one ball withhout aiming directly at it???

Jaden

 

[SpiderWebComm]

You're adding some sidespin?

If you hit centerball on the CB and hit the 1 ball square, then this is just a roundabout way of finally aiming center-to-center, isn't it?

pj
chgo

PJ - you're logically correct. However, perceptually speaking, the bottom of the CB has low contrast since you can't see it exactly because of the shadow and you're sighting a point underneath the equator and above the cloth.

My only point is the edge at the equator is excellent perception-wise for nearly every shot in pool...break included.

Not saying it's the only way nor am I saying it's the best way - because the famous saying on here is different strokes for different folks. I'm just saying it's very logical and mega effective.