Your Take On Sandbagging!

[djpstacked03]

Sandbagging definition: a player deliberately plays worse than his or her true potential to lower his or her competitive rating, typically in order to play in a future event with a lower rating and consequently have a better chance to win a monetary prize.

I play bar box 8 ball every week in a VNEA league. Our team is currently in first place. What once was a good lead over second place has now diminished due to handicaps. We played the second place team last night and we were spotting them 7 balls a round and 28 overall total. Needless to say we only took 1 out of 6 points . I have never in my life considerered sandbagging but our team may have to too remain at the top. I am disgruntled. I wish the handicap system was more fine tuned.

For years I have heard that you need to keep your handicap low if you wanted to win. I did not want to believe it. Unfortunately it is a reality.
I feel dirty about it. If and when we start sandbagging I am going to let my opponents know what we are doing so maybe they will understand the steps you have to take in a flawed handicap system. This is probably going to be my last year with my current team because I will probably be moving away next year. We have never won the regular season (gets you a trip to Vegas for the VNEA International Pool Championships) and we are hungry for it.

My fellow AZers.
Have you ever been in a similar predicament due to the handicap?
What course of action did you take?
Do you look down upon sandbagging?
Coke or Pepsi lol?

 

[NewStroke]

Let me be blunt.

sandbaggers = pvssies

They are scared to death of losing to people of the same skill level so they play down to beat people they know they can beat.

These are the same people that went to grade school playgrounds to pick fights while they were in high school.

 

[Pushout]

As far as I'm personally concerned, sandbagging is equivalent to the lowest form of hustling. I know that in the PPPA sandbaggers can, I think Tony told me, be banned for life, if it can be proven, of course.

 

[mm4pool]

IMO, sandbagging = cheating! I am the captain of an APA 8 ball and 9 ball teams, both teams have had to deal with skill levels getting too high. i have never told any team member to dump or otherwise play below their true level. i dealt with the problem by bringing in lower skill players to make the numbers work out right. it is a pain and i have had to sit my best sometimes but its the only way i will play, even when i know the team we are playing is doind it. there are always options to deal with the problem without resorting to cheating. JMHO.

Mike

 

[dr2112]

IMO, sandbagging = cheating! I am the captain of an APA 8 ball and 9 ball teams, both teams have had to deal with skill levels getting too high. i have never told any team member to dump or otherwise play below their true level. i dealt with the problem by bringing in lower skill players to make the numbers work out right. it is a pain and i have had to sit my best sometimes but its the only way i will play, even when i know the team we are playing is doind it. there are always options to deal with the problem without resorting to cheating. JMHO.

Mike

Sandbagging = Cheating and if someone has to cheat to win well RAhh rahh for them I hope they sleep well at night. It sure does ruin a lot of nights for people who are sincere. I play in the APA also and see quite a bit of it. It's a sad scene.

DR

 

[Ken_4fun]

I sandbag at every opportunity.

Even doing that, it is sometimes hard to win. I am constantly running into better sandbaggers and that REALLY pi$$es me off.

The only thing better is beating a APA 7 who is so proud of reaching the 7 level. They really dont get the big picture.....

Ken

 

[jdxprs]

with the apa, i believe most teams sandbag to some extent. at the very least players are careful not to admit when they play defensive shots. they try to at least keep a certain number of innings.

The sad truth is that if nobody on a team is sandbagging, either your team is all bad players, or you will never be able to keep the team together because of the 23 rule.

 

[ceebee]

Sandbaggers are liars & theives. They are just like "Dumpers", they rig the outcome for their benefit. Maybe they feel a bit clever for their C/S ways, they get no respect from me.

 

[NewStroke]

I have to admit, there are few things funner than watching a sandbagger trying extricate a cue ball from his butt after you beat him like an ugly red headed step child.

Boy are they good at whining.

 

[danquixote]

Well.....the definition of sandbagging has been presented.....but what about the underlying motives behind it....Is it always the heart and soul of a cheater comming to the surface. IMHO it is always wrong and always cheating.....but it also seems to be viewed in the same light as (" a little white lie").....everybody else is doing it......it benefits my team......I'll quit when everybody else plays fair......etc....etc.....ad nauseum. At the risk of stating the obvious.....the only way to correct the problem is to convince everybody that it is wrong and provide real penalities for those that indulge in this practice

 

[jdxprs]

people here seem to be totally against sandbagging, but from the threads i've read, hustling someone is ok.

imo there is really no overall difference.

 

[John Biddle]

Sandbagging is cheating plain and simple. Whether is a hustle to take some rube's money or in league or tournament play, it still amounts to cheating for money. It's despicable.

I know it is common behavior, but that doesn't make it right. You have at least a few different choices while staying honorable, though none of these may get you the result you want. Or you can join right in.

1) Complain to the leage operator whenever you have evidence. This will be very difficult to substantiate, but could be done.

2) record all the opponent's safeties as safeties instead of agreeing that they were misses. Refuse to sign off on scoresheets that misrepresent what actually happened.

3) Talk to the league operator before a match with a suspected sandbagger and have him watch your match. If he sees sandbaging he can correct it.

4) Have someone videotape your match. This may prevent the sandbagging, at the the blatant part, or it may give you the evidence you need to substantiate a claim.

5) Realize that this is very common behavior and pay no attention to it. It's beneath you.

6) Quit and play where cheating isn't an accepted form of behavior.

I'm sure there are other options.

 

[Drew]

Get rid of the handicaps and sandbagging goes with it. Don't blame the players for using every tool to win. Sandbagging, in itself, has become quite the art. You can't develop a winning APA team without sandbagging, because everybody else is doing it. You HAVE TO work the numbers to remain competitive.

PS: I don't diliberately play up innings or miss shots. But some nights I concentrate just a little harder.

 

[Quesports]

Bags of sand

I have bags of sand in the bed of my pickem-up-truck to help with traction in the snowy weather, does that qualify me as a sandbagger??

 

[NewStroke]

Well.....the definition of sandbagging has been presented.....but what about the underlying motives behind it....Is it always the heart and soul of a cheater comming to the surface.

I know the motive, they are pvssies that can't stand to play without cheating. This is why I focus on heads up play.

 

[whoaaaa]

Have you guys ever thought that it's the coordinator's fault? Isn't handicaps actually an opinion of the coordinator?

I've been playing in a league for about 7 years. I was raised about 2 years ago and went through 2 seasons with 1 win. When I approached the coordinator, he simply told me that he knows what I can do and what I cannot on the table and there's no way I'm getting moved down. With that said, she's the only coordinator that I agreed with ever.

Now when I head to other leagues and see 4 handicaps run out a rack with issues on the table and almost run out the next rack, it's a little discouraging.

How much should we blame sandbagging on the coordinators?

 

[SpiderWebComm]

It's simple. There shouldn't BE handicaps. Problem solved.

 

[Meezer Girl]

As long as you are playing under a handicap system there have always been & always will be sandbagging.

Only solution - DO NOT PLAY IN ANYTHING HANDICAPPED (no matter what "carrot" they are dangling in your face)

 

[NewStroke]

Have you guys ever thought that it's the coordinator's fault? Isn't handicaps actually an opinion of the coordinator?

I've been playing in a league for about 7 years. I was raised about 2 years ago and went through 2 seasons with 1 win. When I approached the coordinator, he simply told me that he knows what I can do and what I cannot on the table and there's no way I'm getting moved down. With that said, she's the only coordinator that I agreed with ever.

Now when I head to other leagues and see 4 handicaps run out a rack with issues on the table and almost run out the next rack, it's a little discouraging.

How much should we blame sandbagging on the coordinators?

You are right, LOs are just as bad. Our LO encourages certain people to sandbag.

This is the reason my serious league is BCA and APA is my tertiary league.

 

[RLSwint]

Hi everyone, I'm relatively new here but I'll comment on this one. The handicap system we use is the 10 pnt. system , which I think is the original poster's handicap system. I never played APA and I know that's different. In our league if you try to manipulate the system it always (9 times out of ten) will come back to bite you. We have really no sandbagging in this league for that reason. Our thing that we deal with is max handicap per round allowed, but people play into the handicap thing way to much. I say this because, with the 10 pnt system you still have to win to take the round and if the top players are not playing to their ability or handicap rating and lose that could cost them the round. For the last 2 years we have raised the max handicap to appease the lower players and the facts are it just doesn't make much of a difference in the outcome.

Thanks
R. L. Swint