Need Tips on Using a Tenon Threader

GBCues

GBCues

Damn, still .002 TIR!
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I'm trying to learn how to do some basic cue repair and I'm having trouble threading the tenon for a ferrule. I know that many here will poo-poo the use of a tenon threader, but I don't have the wherewithal to do live threading.

I turned the ferrule end of a practice shaft down to 5/16". I have a 5/16-18 tenon threader that I bought from a fellow AZ'er. Now I thought that using the tenon threader would be like using a metal die, but the threader doesn't seem to want to "grab" the end of the shaft and pull itself on, the way that a metal die does on a rod.

I have the shaft mounted in my lathe chuck. The tenon threader is mounted on a aligning rod that is mounted in a drill chuck in my tailstock. But I just can't seem to get the tenon threader started. I'd hate to turn down the shaft any more, but I'm thinking that might be my problem.

Any tips from you guys?

Thanks in advance,

Gary

P.S. I have Chris Hightower's book and have read through the ferrule section in it.
 

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That looks like the Unique threader, which is the one I have also. It works jam up. If you had bought it new, it comes with instructions that state you have to turn the tenon to a diameter of .284 to work. Also, use wax.

Another thing you can do to help get it started is put a slight chafer on the end of the tenon. I just use a utility knife blade for this, since I always have them handy from installing tips. A file would also work well.

You also want to back it out after a few threads, to reduce the twisting pressure on the tenon.

I have mine set up the same way, in a mandrel mounted in the tailstock chuck. It works great, giving me clean and straight threads every time. I've tried another brand threader and it ate up the wood instead of making clean threads.
 
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I don't know if your picture was just for illustration or not, but you generally want the overhang of the work from the chuck to be as short as possible.

Another thing I like to do when threading a ferrule is to NOT turn the shaft with the chuck. Instead I like to grip the shaft by its joint hand with my left hand, and control its turing from there. the reason for this is if you grip it from the chuck, you are relying on the chuck jaws to grip the cue. And in my experience, I've had a few shafts slip while threading the tenon, that would not otherwise slip for other operations.

Spinning the shaft from the joint with your hand means the chuck jaws are just a guide, and there won't be a chance of any slip and resultant marking of the shaft.
 
Sorry I keep finding more things with your picture...

Move the tool to the left side of the toolpost. This will allow you to get closer to the chuck. Remember a big key in metalworking is low overhang, applied to both the work and the tooling. This results in a rigid setup, which in turn results in less vibration, less deflection, and finally, a better cut.

It sounds like you are new to this, one other important machine tool principle to know (among many others) is backlash in your dials. Look it up on google and you will see how to work with it, if you don't already know.
 
IUsedToBeRich,

Thanks - .284 and wax are helping.

I actually cut the tenon down in a little bit different configuration - so I could get close to the chuck. Then reset it to thread the tenon.

All your suggestions are well-received.

Gary
 
Mission accomplished!! Not perfect, but ya gotta start somewhere!

Thanks guys - as always everyone is really helpful here.

Gary
 

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If thats the unique threader all you do is turn the tenon until it just fits in the back side of the tenon threader. Then you wax up the tenon and thread tenon. Now if its a standard tenon threader turn tenon to .282 - .285 wax tenon and thread.. Hope this helps
 
I hold the threader in my hand. Turn the lathe on let it spin up, then off. As soon as I switch it to off, I shove the tenon threader onto the tenon, using my grip as a clutch. I'l usually go about halfway on, then back it off, and repeat. This may not work as well with a repair lathe, the chuch wont have much momentum. You may have to leave it on while you push the threader onto the tenon.
The whole process takes about 60 seconds.
 
haVE SHELDON FERRULE THE TIMELESS TIMBER UNDERWATER WOOD SHAFT

sheldon the hand is great for the feel. I like to cut threads on shafts all by hand. forward 1/3 and back 2/3 thds. I like doing the same to the ferrules. I have a machinist cuebuilder ,gunsmith friend. what he goes through to make sure the cuts are straight ,the woods perfectly in the ferrrule and on and on. and then he reminds me if I ever tell anyone kaboom with the mussle loader mark
 
GEBrown said:
I'm trying to learn how to do some basic cue repair and I'm having trouble threading the tenon for a ferrule. I know that many here will poo-poo the use of a tenon threader, but I don't have the wherewithal to do live threading.

I turned the ferrule end of a practice shaft down to 5/16". I have a 5/16-18 tenon threader that I bought from a fellow AZ'er. Now I thought that using the tenon threader would be like using a metal die, but the threader doesn't seem to want to "grab" the end of the shaft and pull itself on, the way that a metal die does on a rod.

I have the shaft mounted in my lathe chuck. The tenon threader is mounted on a aligning rod that is mounted in a drill chuck in my tailstock. But I just can't seem to get the tenon threader started. I'd hate to turn down the shaft any more, but I'm thinking that might be my problem.

Any tips from you guys?

Thanks in advance,

Gary

P.S. I have Chris Hightower's book and have read through the ferrule section in it.
Click to expand...

I haven't read all the posts but what I do is use three different dies. You make them yourself. Just get a small bar of aluminum and drill and tap it in several sizes. You just hack saw it a few times and you have a die. Start with the biggest and repeat with the smaller ones and you will have a thread that looks perfect. You need to turn down the tenon less then 5/16 though. I cut it to .300 and have a nice fit when I am done. I can mill the threads with no problem if I want but it isn't really necessary. Give a try making them yourself. You can make them from steel if you want also but I use some I made like 10 years ago from aluminum and they still work fine.
 
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If I could borrow reference to the last of Mr. Brown's pics, the thread at the very base of the tenon is why I prefer a non-threaded tenon with a small shoulder.
What used to be a 5/16" tenon now has it's strength reduced to what the minor diameter of the thread will allow. Somewhat less.
 
Yep ... looks like a Unique die.
Cut tenon to .280 and use some bee's wax.
Hand thread it 2 turns in and 1/2 turn out to clean the die of wood chips.
If you thread the die all the way on with out backing out for cleaning, you might get stuck and twist off the tenon.
 
KJ Cues said:
If I could borrow reference to the last of Mr. Brown's pics, the thread at the very base of the tenon is why I prefer a non-threaded tenon with a small shoulder.
What used to be a 5/16" tenon now has it's strength reduced to what the minor diameter of the thread will allow. Somewhat less.
Click to expand...

I keep a 5/16 by .200" shoulder and a few threads.
Can't beat a metal lathe with a threading gear and some imagination with a carbide saw blade imo.
I like them short ferrules but has to have thread for mechanical bond IMHO.
 

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with limited equipment that's the way I do mine 1/2 5/16 thread 1/4 shoulder maybe with a dedicated live threader I would do it a little different
 
I cut the tenon to .280, on advice from members here, and then have a .312 shoulder for about .250. I chamfer the tenon end, and use wax. So far, it works perfect, unless you are doing a cheapo china cue with ramin wood. Then I use CA to harden the tenon first before threading. Keep the cutter at the same depth, re-run it than sand lightly, then run the threader.
Dave
 
> I have the Atlas version. I didn't like the fit of a ferrule tapped with a standard tap and such a small tenon. What I did was open the die up with an H3,H4,then an H5 tap. Now I can thread a tenon at .310 with no problem. Better thread fit=less chance of having to re-do it for free. Tommy D.
 
Tommy-D said:
> I have the Atlas version. I didn't like the fit of a ferrule tapped with a standard tap and such a small tenon. What I did was open the die up with an H3,H4,then an H5 tap. Now I can thread a tenon at .310 with no problem. Better thread fit=less chance of having to re-do it for free. Tommy D.
Click to expand...

First of all - THANKS to all who've "tipped" in - I really appreciate the help.

Tommy-D, just wondering, how did you know the taps would open up the die and not the die shave down the taps?
 
Not Tommy, but the tenon threaders I've seen were either made of soft steel or brass.

Commercial taps, which is what Tommy was referring to, are made of hardened tool steel, and are specifically made to cut the non-hardened metals. Taps do wear over time, and a new sharp tap will always work better than a worn tap.
 
> Exactly. I used fresh taps,and the body of the Atlas die is aluminum,which has no chance of hurting hardened HSS taps.

I use it the same way I was taught to use a tap,3/4 of a turn then 1/2 a turn back the other way to break the chip. I've done tenons at .300-.310 with minimal chipping and a nice,sharp thread,with just enough room for wood glue. I don't even have to use wax very much,just until I get 1/4 of the way.
Tommy D.
 
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