Isn't a metal bolt inside a forearm a wedge?

JoeyInCali said:
Seeing this cue shatter makes me think.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=174652

I like a long threaded wood tenon going down the handle.
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Once the epoxy has hardened it should be a solid mass.
For it to act as a wedge there would need to be some movement ...
and that would be very bad for the "A" joint.

Notice that most of these shafs break right above or around the Pin.
The joint is strong ... abuse is stronger.

A long tenon would work but I doubt it would be any stronger.
Balance is one reason to put a metal pin at the "A" joint.
If the weight is not there then it must be somewhere else to get the total cue to weight. However the balance would not be the same.
 
A long tenon would work but I doubt it would be any stronger.
Balance is one reason to put a metal pin at the "A" joint.
If the weight is not there then it must be somewhere else to get the total cue to weight. However the balance would not be the same.
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A long tenon and bolt going in to a much larger diameter down the handle is stronger imo.
Clamping the points with a phenolic band and using the points as tenon, even stronger imo.
Drilling the forearm and tapping for metal bolts, I have doubts unless the points are clamped with phenolic band.
imho of course.
 
jazznpool said:
Even your pinless A-joint cue will break when subjected to whacking it over a table. JMO ICBW.

Martin
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Yes, but most likely the shaft or in the joint pin area .

Here's some Haley's blanks with points clamped. They look very strong imo.
 

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i think a 4" metal 3/8 stud is stronger than a larger wood stud,but that is just me.
 
JoeyInCali said:
A long tenon and bolt going in to a much larger diameter down the handle is stronger imo.
Clamping the points with a phenolic band and using the points as tenon, even stronger imo.
Drilling the forearm and tapping for metal bolts, I have doubts unless the points are clamped with phenolic band.
imho of course.
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Your thoughts only hold true on wrapless cues. The handle side is thinner than the forearm side on cues with a wrap channel. So running the tenon into the handle is weaker on wrapped cues. But on wrapless cues you are right that it is a little stronger because of the increase in wall thickness.
 
masonh said:
i think a 4" metal 3/8 stud is stronger than a larger wood stud,but that is just me.
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FWIW - it isn't just you, I can stand on my blanks like a platform.
That was Burton Spain's showmanship move to demo the strengh of his
fullsplice blanks.

Before anyone asks, NO that is not my standard procedure.

Dale
 
FWIW - it isn't just you, I can stand on my blanks like a platform.
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me too and i weight 220.it was scary but it worked.not sure i would try it with a burl handled cue though.

looks like you and i finally agreed on something.:thumbup:
 
pdcue said:
FWIW - it isn't just you, I can stand on my blanks like a platform.
That was Burton Spain's showmanship move to demo the strengh of his
fullsplice blanks.

Before anyone asks, NO that is not my standard procedure.

Dale
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Like Burton, you prolly don't weigh 220lbs+ like some of us other builders. Give me any cue butt that is under 2" diameter & i'll put my money down that says it'll break if I stand on it.

Cues are not designed for lateral pressure. They are designed for linear impact. Why should we go out of our way to idiot proof the cues? Wouldn't it make more sense if we focused our attention on making the cues perform better than to focus our attention on making them durable for tempermental idiots? One out of 10 players will break his cue. The other nine take care of their cue & use it ONLY for the intended purpose. I have never heard anybody dog a builder because the local hothead was able to break a the cue in a fit of rage. This brings me to the conclusion that conversations about this stuff is pretty much pointless, and guys who focus their attention on strengthening the cue laterally for the tards could probably be building a much better playing cue if he/she focused all that attention to playability instead.

I'm not saying anybody in particular builds bad cues because they are strong in the "A" joint. That's not my point. I'm only pointing out that strengthening this area is a waste of time, IMO. If a guy is going to abuse the cue I built for him, then by golly I hope it snaps & he'll never get another from me.
 
qbilder said:
Like Burton, you prolly don't weigh 220lbs+ like some of us other builders. Give me any cue butt that is under 2" diameter & i'll put my money down that says it'll break if I stand on it.

Cues are not designed for lateral pressure. They are designed for linear impact. Why should we go out of our way to idiot proof the cues? Wouldn't it make more sense if we focused our attention on making the cues perform better than to focus our attention on making them durable for tempermental idiots? One out of 10 players will break his cue. The other nine take care of their cue & use it ONLY for the intended purpose. I have never heard anybody dog a builder because the local hothead was able to break a the cue in a fit of rage. This brings me to the conclusion that conversations about this stuff is pretty much pointless, and guys who focus their attention on strengthening the cue laterally for the tards could probably be building a much better playing cue if he/she focused all that attention to playability instead.

I'm not saying anybody in particular builds bad cues because they are strong in the "A" joint. That's not my point. I'm only pointing out that strengthening this area is a waste of time, IMO. If a guy is going to abuse the cue I built for him, then by golly I hope it snaps & he'll never get another from me.
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So you're saying you don't like repeat customer's? Now what kind of business philosphy is that! Lol! Just kinding qb. :smile:
 
j2pac said:
So you're saying you don't like repeat customer's? Now what kind of business philosphy is that! Lol! Just kinding qb. :smile:
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LOL repeat customers for cuemakers means either you are very lucky & have a fan base with folks collecting your cues, or else somebody is exploiting your work & making money on it. Most generally, it's the guy making money on you. My favorite customers are the players who get a cue & play the hell out of it.
 
dave sutton said:
I do .750 high and .750 wide into forearm. Aluminum pin 3" long.

If it's good enough for Gus it's good enough for me...
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Didn't Gus use animal hide glue?
Is that good enough for ya?

I weigh 250 lbs and can pick up my Dodge van and stand on the joints I make with out fear of breakage ... :rolleyes: ...
(In my dreams on Monday nights)

Come on guys ... it is just a piece of wood with a leather tip! ;)
 
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Didn't Gus use animal hide glue?
Is that good enough for ya?
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i'm sure Gus would have used West systems had it been around,but yes hide glue is actually better than people think.i would use it over the poly glues.
 
Some poor guy(cuemaker)probably worked late nights to finish that cue...So it could be abused. Glad it broke. :)
 
qbilder said:
Like Burton, you prolly don't weigh 220lbs+ like some of us other builders. Give me any cue butt that is under 2" diameter & i'll put my money down that says it'll break if I stand on it.

Cues are not designed for lateral pressure. They are designed for linear impact. Why should we go out of our way to idiot proof the cues? Wouldn't it make more sense if we focused our attention on making the cues perform better than to focus our attention on making them durable for tempermental idiots? One out of 10 players will break his cue. The other nine take care of their cue & use it ONLY for the intended purpose. I have never heard anybody dog a builder because the local hothead was able to break a the cue in a fit of rage. This brings me to the conclusion that conversations about this stuff is pretty much pointless, and guys who focus their attention on strengthening the cue laterally for the tards could probably be building a much better playing cue if he/she focused all that attention to playability instead.

I'm not saying anybody in particular builds bad cues because they are strong in the "A" joint. That's not my point. I'm only pointing out that strengthening this area is a waste of time, IMO. If a guy is going to abuse the cue I built for him, then by golly I hope it snaps & he'll never get another from me.
Click to expand...

So, qb, just to get things straight,
are you calling me a liar, or just a fool?

Methinks you are doing too much of the reading into passing remarks
what you want to see.

The 'stronger' connection was, for me, only a secondary outcome
of a structurally superior method for joining front to handle. The desired
result, which I overacheived, was all about playability

'Explaining' to me the relative merits of linear vs laterial strength
is only slightly more necessary than explaining it is better if you
put the tip on the other end from the bumper.

Dale<tip left - bumper right>
 
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