Old Style Play was more exiting

[Johnnyt]

While looking over books by Robert Byrne’s (Pool and Billiards) and Ray Martin’s (99 Critical Shots in Pool) I noticed that a lot of the shots in the books we very rarely see taken by the pros anymore. Pool has become so much a high percentage shot only and safety game now. I miss the original game of 9-ball and players that went for the exiting shots, like McCready. When players like Keith pulled one out of the hat you could see the other player deflate in their seat. I don’t know who would win between the old players and the new if both in their prime, but I do know the old players were a lot more exiting IMO. Johnnyt

 

[Russ Chewning]

It's the fast cloth and small pockets the pros play on nowadays.

Before, the players could take a flyer if they knew it was impossible for their opponent to stroke the ball well enough to get on the next shot if they missed a ball. Nowadays, it is too hard to put a three pack down the way Diamonds break, so all errors are punished 3 times harder than in years past.

Russ

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

I agree Johnny. I think the move to Texas Express (ie. no longer playing push-out/2 misses = BIH) had a LOT to do with the reduction of riskier play.

 

[Neil]

..............

 

[macguy]

I agree Johnny. I think the move to Texas Express (ie. no longer playing push-out/2 misses = BIH) had a LOT to do with the reduction of riskier play.

In the past you could shoot at anything because if you got hooked you just pushed out. Guys like Richie Ambrose would push out to shots that were almost impossible. You would say shoot again and he would spin them in. The result was you had to take low percentages yourself for fear of letting him shoot. Yes, the game was more exciting watching guys shoot but in the same respect it was also boring because guys would over use the push out. One rack of 9-ball could take 10 minutes or more at times.

 

[avmaster]

While looking over books by Robert Byrne’s (Pool and Billiards) and Ray Martin’s (99 Critical Shots in Pool) I noticed that a lot of the shots in the books we very rarely see taken by the pros anymore. Pool has become so much a high percentage shot only and safety game now. I miss the original game of 9-ball and players that went for the exiting shots, like McCready. When players like Keith pulled one out of the hat you could see the other player deflate in their seat. I don’t know who would win between the old players and the new if both in their prime, but I do know the old players were a lot more exiting IMO. Johnnyt

I still do that Johnnyt. Somehow, I have a real problem shooting a safe....:frown:, I will try to pull one from the nether regions and drop it in..... but, I guess I'm one of the "old players". It was always so enjoyable to watch the other guys jaw drop when I pulled one of those off.....

 

[macguy]

I still do that Johnnyt. Somehow, I have a real problem shooting a safe....:frown:, I will try to pull one from the nether regions and drop it in..... but, I guess I'm one of the "old players". It was always so enjoyable to watch the other guys jaw drop when I pulled one of those off.....

The problem though is, by todays rules you will be taking the worst of it. You will be playing like a sucker if you refuse to try to get ball in hand now and then or at least make the other guy sell out.

 

[spktur]

It's the fast cloth and small pockets the pros play on nowadays.

Before, the players could take a flyer if they knew it was impossible for their opponent to stroke the ball well enough to get on the next shot if they missed a ball. Nowadays, it is too hard to put a three pack down the way Diamonds break, so all errors are punished 3 times harder than in years past.

Russ

And in tournament the sets are short and one error can mean the difference in winning and losing. But I agree the more open format is more fun to watch , that's why the ring games do so well and action play is more fun to watch. If you want to see really great pool watch Efren when he is matched up gambling with someone, he will come with some shots that aren't possible. But in gambling you can get another chance as long as you have money for another game. In tournaments you lose you're out.

 

[avmaster]

The problem though is, by todays rules you will be taking the worst of it. You will be playing like a sucker if you refuse to try to get ball in hand now and then or at least make the other guy sell out.

Yeah, I know, you're right, I don't really do it unless I'm playing with my group of guys now days, or unless I'm dead certain I'll make the shot with position to get out.

 

[Gerry]

I've noticed when playing the ghost and you MUST shoot to continue.....many times you come up with shots that go in because safety is not possible....similar to a ring game.


G.

 

[Johnnyt]

I know with todays rules and tighter pockets they have to play a safer game. I'm just saying I enjoyed watching the players come with almost imposible shots not to give up the table. The jump cue is not very exiting to me either. Johnnyt

 

[Luxury]

I'm a firm believer that they should be playing all misses are fouls. We would see so many more banks and cool shots. Then speed up the game dramatically so the players can have a shot at making some money on television.

 

[sfleinen]

Thread title: Old Style Play was more exiting
While looking over books by Robert Byrne’s (Pool and Billiards) and Ray Martin’s (99 Critical Shots in Pool) I noticed that a lot of the shots in the books we very rarely see taken by the pros anymore. Pool has become so much a high percentage shot only and safety game now. I miss the original game of 9-ball and players that went for the exiting shots, like McCready. When players like Keith pulled one out of the hat you could see the other player deflate in their seat. I don’t know who would win between the old players and the new if both in their prime, but I do know the old players were a lot more exiting IMO. Johnnyt

Well JT, old style has certainly "exited," for it doesn't exist anymore. The rules have changed, and "push out" 9-ball is rarely played. And the old players are "exiting" us at an alarming rate -- not many left around anymore.

Personally, that's why I love playing on Tony Robles' Predator 10-ball tour, with the modified WPA 10-ball rules (i.e. call-ball/-pocket, with Tony's proviso that if a called shot is missed, and the incoming player doesn't like how the table lays, he/she can make the previous player shoot again -- to get rid of "lucky" or "moral" two-way shot leaves). Plus, 10-ball is just a superior game to 9-ball anyway; the triangular rack shape of 10-ball doesn't have the "guaranteed wing ball in the corner pocket" vulnerabilities of 9-ball's diamond-shaped rack.

-Sean

 

[cajunfats]

Old Style

While looking over books by Robert Byrne’s (Pool and Billiards) and Ray Martin’s (99 Critical Shots in Pool) I noticed that a lot of the shots in the books we very rarely see taken by the pros anymore. Pool has become so much a high percentage shot only and safety game now. I miss the original game of 9-ball and players that went for the exiting shots, like McCready. When players like Keith pulled one out of the hat you could see the other player deflate in their seat. I don’t know who would win between the old players and the new if both in their prime, but I do know the old players were a lot more exiting IMO. Johnnyt

I still play that way for the most part. I play in small local tournaments,so I really don't go at it with the hope of winning the cash. I am challenged by the table,the player to me is irrelevant. If I have a turn at the table,I am trying to play each shot to go in. Regardless of the outcome,I want to be aggresive,and play to perfection. Yes,I have lost thousands of games that way. My life isn't any worse for it. I still Love to play,each and every game. I have also made some spectacular shots out of impossible positions,for that I'm grateful. Jump Cue? Never owned one. Jump with full cue only,but only rarely. If you have to jump,you aren't getting very good shape,and you are afraid of kicking!! Take Risks...Take the Consequences.

 

[pocketpared]

What a coincidence.

Getting a little boring playing in my basement so I just started playing the ghost and ordered those 2 books last week. Received them yesterday and plan on just going over shot for shot in both books. I figure it will do to my pool game what defragging does to my hard drive. If I pick up one thing, I'm happy.

I ended up knowing Ray pretty well years back and I remember when I was 18 I once went into his room in Clifton NJ for the first time. This was when he was in the middle of winning all his championships. Nobody was around and he said to me, "What odds will you give me, I'll chicago break the balls, move any ball frozen to a rail an inch off the rail, and I'll bank every ball in the rack and the cue ball will never touch another ball or a rail?" I was just starting to play pool at the time so I now realize he probably was just busting my chops. But...he broke the rack, moved any ball frozen to a rail an inch off, and banked every ball with the cue ball never touching any other ball or a rail, finally missing the bank on ball #15. He laid his cue on the table, said "This game's too easy", and walked back behind the counter.

I also used to sneak his son Allen up on people from time to time.

 

[Neil]

................

 

[sjm]

It always amazes me when I encounter this line of reasoning. What makes today's game far more fascinating than the old version is the creativity entialed by defense, kicking and two-way shots, skills that were far less important in the supposedly good old days.

The old-timers celebrate one pocket, a game whose majesty is closely tied to the way the great movers manage to play offense and defense simultaneously and the way they gradually develop an advantage. In one pocket, I'm told, such imaginative play is exciting, but somehow the same kind of imaginaton, when used in nine ball, is boring.

I'm not buying it. Texas Express made nine ball much more interesting to watch, placing much greater emphasis on speed control, billiard knowledge, and the ability to devise shots that have both an offensive and defensive element to them.

The old syle nine ball, was, of course, more of a shotmakers game, but if was far less interesting to watch. May it rest in peace.

 

[JB Cases]

Well JT, old style has certainly "exited," for it doesn't exist anymore. The rules have changed, and "push out" 9-ball is rarely played. And the old players are "exiting" us at an alarming rate -- not many left around anymore.

Personally, that's why I love playing on Tony Robles' Predator 10-ball tour, with the modified WPA 10-ball rules (i.e. call-ball/-pocket, with Tony's proviso that if a called shot is missed, and the incoming player doesn't like how the table lays, he/she can make the previous player shoot again -- to get rid of "lucky" or "moral" two-way shot leaves). Plus, 10-ball is just a superior game to 9-ball anyway; the triangular rack shape of 10-ball doesn't have the "guaranteed wing ball in the corner pocket" vulnerabilities of 9-ball's diamond-shaped rack.

-Sean

I 100% concur. I think that UPL/Robles 10 ball rules are the closest thing we can get to the old push out rules. It's definitely light years better than nine ball.

I hope 9 ball disappears from play altogether.

Joe Tucker was right all along.

 

[JimS]

It always amazes me when I encounter this line of reasoning. What makes today's game far more fascinating than the old version is the creativity entialed by defense, kicking and two-way shots, skills that were far less important in the supposedly good old days.

The old-timers celebrate one pocket, a game whose majesty is closely tied to the way the great movers manage to play offense and defense simultaneously and the way they gradually develop an advantage. In one pocket, I'm told, such imaginative play is exciting, but somehow the same kind of imaginaton, when used in nine ball, is boring.

I'm not buying it. Texas Express made nine ball much more interesting to watch, placing much greater emphasis on speed control, billiard knowledge, and the ability to devise shots that have both an offensive and defensive element to them.

The old syle nine ball, was, of course, more of a shotmakers game, but if was far less interesting to watch. May it rest in peace.

I 100% concur. I think that UPL/Robles 10 ball rules are the closest thing we can get to the old push out rules. It's definitely light years better than nine ball.

I hope 9 ball disappears from play altogether.

Joe Tucker was right all along.

:groucho: :groucho: :groucho:

I like both these posts. If the game was more excit-ing back when they could always push then it was because we folks were young then and more excite-able. I think the 10 ball is the future and I love 1 Pocket or banks with all the 'moves'.

 

[Johnnyt]

:groucho: :groucho: :groucho:

I like both these posts. If the game was more excit-ing back when they could always push then it was because we folks were young then and more excite-able. I think the 10 ball is the future and I love 1 Pocket or banks with all the 'moves'.

I was talking 9-ball from gambling matches point of view. Of course 10-ball is a much better game than 9-ball and Tony's format for10-ball is very good IMO. Johnnyt