ok thanks for the post. I was sure of this but this video confused me.
i am a little confused.. ( cueball controll)
- Thread starter Slh
- Start date
ok thanks for the post. I was sure of this but this video confused me.
I'm going to go against the grain here and say that you should completely ignore everything this guy said in this video. Although he is correct, using english for any of the examples shown is absolutely ridiculous. It's completely over complicating things, and drastically increasing the chance of error.
99% of the time you want to keep your game as simplified as possible. If you want to change the angle, then cheat the pocket a little bit. Reserve throwing the ball for situations where you have no choice, and the pocket can't be cheated safely.
And don't punch at the ball as he suggests. Your follow through should be equal to the distance that you pull the cue back before following through.
99% of the time you want to keep your game as simplified as possible. If you want to change the angle, then cheat the pocket a little bit. Reserve throwing the ball for situations where you have no choice, and the pocket can't be cheated safely.
And don't punch at the ball as he suggests. Your follow through should be equal to the distance that you pull the cue back before following through.
just out curiousity, I practiced this shot last night to see what I could do with the cueball. On a straight in side shot, I could do alot with the cueball.
There were a few spots on the table that were difficult enough to get to that I wouldn't have tried it in a meaningful situation unless I had zero other options. Most attempts a most locations involved cheating the pocket, easily the most reliable option when attempting most of the shape lines which would fall within an a foot or so left or right of the natural shot line...
Getting outside of 8 inches to a foot of the natural shot line with the cueball without cheating the pocket extremely right or left (I tested by placing two balls at the edges of the side pocket cutting down the size of the pocket) involved reverse english throw shots.
Confident that the person in that video could not bring the ball back right (using right) or left (using left) without cheating the pocket. I shrunk the pocket with a few balls at the jaws, had it down to roughly 4-4.5 inches... could NOT bring it back right using right, or left using left at all. I could bring it back right using left and left using right but no way as this guy described without cheating the pocket.
There were a few spots on the table that were difficult enough to get to that I wouldn't have tried it in a meaningful situation unless I had zero other options. Most attempts a most locations involved cheating the pocket, easily the most reliable option when attempting most of the shape lines which would fall within an a foot or so left or right of the natural shot line...
Getting outside of 8 inches to a foot of the natural shot line with the cueball without cheating the pocket extremely right or left (I tested by placing two balls at the edges of the side pocket cutting down the size of the pocket) involved reverse english throw shots.
Confident that the person in that video could not bring the ball back right (using right) or left (using left) without cheating the pocket. I shrunk the pocket with a few balls at the jaws, had it down to roughly 4-4.5 inches... could NOT bring it back right using right, or left using left at all. I could bring it back right using left and left using right but no way as this guy described without cheating the pocket.
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That was the point I was making. Because of the height of the rail, there is almost always some elevation of the cue. It may not be much, but it is a rare shot that doesn't have some cue elevation involved.
But back to the original point of the thread, I just hate to see a video that is supposed to be directed toward beginners get into things that are probably beyond the ability of those players. And I really hate to see misinformation. There are enough myths in pool that seem to find their way from player to player. I often find I have to disprove many of them with my students who have heard them somewhere, possibly from a better player, and believe them to be true. Level cue is one of those myths.
Steve
nathandumoulin...I liked everything about your post, except this last sentence. That's just NOT true. Physically we just have to "pierce" the surface of the CB (move it off the spot it's sitting on), and we have technically 'followed through'. No additional followthrough will have any physical effect on the action on the CB, or the outcome of the shot. Most of us fall within the definition in your statement...but it is not cut in stone. I have see people with a long bridge, who, with a classic pendulum swing, finished their stroke naturally (to the chest/armpit), yet the tip only went past the CB an inch or two. Bridge length and finish position are individual to the shooter, based on many factors. How far you followthrough has no basis for what happens once the CB has left the tip (which happens after about 1/1000th of a second). The main reason we "finish" our stroke, is to allow the body to complete the stroke (and stop the cue), rather than arbitrary bicep flex or grip pressure. This is using the weight of the cue and timing to create the speed of the stroke, as opposed to a muscled swing.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Scott,
You are correct, although just because something isn't absolutely necessary, doesn't mean it shouldn't be suggested. As you said, following through helps to complete a smooth stroke for most players. In my eyes, that means that following through IS necessary for most players. Sure, it doesn't change the physics of the hit, but it does maintain the smoothness of it.
Follow through is the result of a proper stroke that allows the stroke to come to it's natural finish. Scott's point is that the amount of follow through won't have any impact on the shot. If your natural follow through is 5 inches, and mine is 3 inches, we will both accomplish the same thing with the shot.
Steve
.....Did you even read my post before quoting it?
(This is not intended to come across as rude. I'm actually serious.)
He got the spin wrong, he needs to hit left on CB to get it going right after contact and right to get the CB going left after contact...
nathandumoulin...Yes, Steve read it, as did I. What Steve said is true. What I meant to imply to you, that it appears you missed, is that most people arbitrarily 'follow through', and stop the forward motion of their cue using muscle. This defeats the purpose of learning to let the weight of the cue and timing create the speed of the stroke. Again, this is why a pendulum stroke is the easiest to learn, and make consistent...your stroke ends where your grip hand comes to rest against your body. Then you just have to learn to loosen your grip (because you can still finish your stroke, and grip too tightly). Everyone is built differently and so followthrough distance is arbitrary to the person...not some "specified" distance. That was the point I was trying to make.:grin: We are likely just arguing semantics here, but I believe that KISS rules!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
While I agree that certain applications of this type of shot would fall well into the advanced realm, I do believe that there are other, simpler applications that could be used by novice players. It is quite simple, for example, to take a not quite straight-in shot (where cheating the pocket is not an option) and make the cueball stop immediately, or travel opposite of the tangent line, by applying a bit of inside spin with a few degrees of elevation. I will often use this technique in cases like this 9-ball scenario because it is higher percentage for me than the other options. Of course, the reason why it's higher % for me is because I like the shot and I practice it.
Sorry, Steve, I misread your original post. I thought you were talking about jacking the cue up. As for the video, I had the audio turned off and only watched the shot that was at 2:16. From what I'm reading here the guy in the video seems like a worm.
MULLY
Scott,
A pendulum swings the same distance forward as it does back. This is a natural motion, which when duplicated as a stroke in pool, usually yields the smoothest motion. It's the exact same for all other sports. Tennis, golf, etc. The backhand swing is equal to the follow through, as that's the natural distance the body needs to slow down the follow though.
The guy in the video suggested a punch stroke. I disagreed. A punch stroke requires that you decelerate prematurely, which stops the stroke through muscle restraint.
I realize that follow through does not affect the contact on the cue ball. Steve didn't need to reiterate that, as it's completely irrelevant to my point. What I'm saying is that regardless of the effect of the follow through (or lack thereof), the *smoothness of the delivery* resulting from the follow through is what's important.
Here's an analogy (and a bad one at that). Try telling someone to walk from 'Point A' to 'Point B'. You're saying that they dont NEED to have their eyes open to do so. And you'd be right by saying this. Opening or closing their eyes does not change the destination. However having them open helps...a lot. It keeps the path from 'Point A' to 'Point B' straight and smooth. Just because something isn't necessary, doesn't mean it shouldn't be recommended.
In this case, I strongly suggest to any new player to follow through on the shot.
I'm sure we can discuss this all day long, but in the end it's pretty obvious to me. Tiger Woods knows that he doesn't need to swing through after contact with the golf ball. Why does he then? Because it's natural, it's smoother, and it helps prevent him from decelerating prematurely.
PS. I don't doubt your ability as a BCA instructor. Clearly you're FAR more qualified to talk about this than I am. Please take no offense to my words, as at the end of the day, it's all just a fun discussion for me anyway.
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Scott,
A pendulum swings the same distance forward as it does back. This is a natural motion, which when duplicated as a stroke in pool, usually yields the smoothest motion. It's the exact same for all other sports. Tennis, golf, etc. The backhand swing is equal to the follow through, as that's the natural distance the body needs to slow down the follow though.
The guy in the video suggested a punch stroke. I disagreed. A punch stroke requires that you decelerate prematurely, which stops the stroke through muscle restraint.
I realize that follow through does not affect the contact on the cue ball. Steve didn't need to reiterate that, as it's completely irrelevant to my point. What I'm saying is that regardless of the effect of the follow through (or lack thereof), the *smoothness of the delivery* resulting from the follow through is what's important.
Here's an analogy (and a bad one at that). Try telling someone to walk from 'Point A' to 'Point B'. You're saying that they dont NEED to have their eyes open to do so. And you'd be right by saying this. Opening or closing their eyes does not change the destination. However having them open helps...a lot. It keeps the path from 'Point A' to 'Point B' straight and smooth. Just because something isn't necessary, doesn't mean it shouldn't be recommended.
In this case, I strongly suggest to any new player to follow through on the shot.
I'm sure we can discuss this all day long, but in the end it's pretty obvious to me. Tiger Woods knows that he doesn't need to swing through after contact with the golf ball. Why does he then? Because it's natural, it's smoother, and it helps prevent him from decelerating prematurely.
PS. I don't doubt your ability as a BCA instructor. Clearly you're FAR more qualified to talk about this than I am. Please take no offense to my words, as at the end of the day, it's all just a fun discussion for me anyway.
Having a good punch stroke is part of the game and something that should be practiced. An example is - balls close together and playing spin. I agree having a smooth stroke and finish point is key to good pool, however finishing the stroke in the shot above would cause a double hit. A simple fix is moving the back hand forward. This shortens the back and forward motion of the stroke. More examples of this stroke - jumping, shooting over balls and off rails. Having more than one stroke is critical for playing your best pool.
Agreed, although that's besides my point, as that's a specialty stroke.
On a side note, we are WAYYYY off topic here. So much for talking about using english instead of cheating the pocket (which Jason already solved).
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I am here to cause not solve problems:grin: If you could give me the post number I will promptly change or delete:grin-square: