Attion collectors, something to think about...

Fatboy

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This was part of a post I just made:

There are 2 ways to look at it, I have my opion and could be wrong whate your thoughts on this???

One thing thats going to become a issue in cue collecting over the next 10+ years since there is going to be so many new fancy cues-the question of a older or vintage cue being refinished or all origonal will become a big thing. In Watches if a 50 year old Rolex has been refinished its worth less than a origonal watch of the same model. Same will hold true in cues-mark my words. Five years after Gus passed away no one would think twice about having a Gus refinished, now that dosent look like the smart play to me. new shafts are fine to play with, playing with a Gus is the greatest idea period. But to cut off a seasoned origonal Gus wrap-I dont think thats to smart. Unless the cue is beat to death then yes a refinish is a good plan. Like I said there are 2 ways to look at this for all cue makers work.


i think this is a interesting topic.
 
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E,
SINCE COLLECTING CUES HAS BECOME BIGGER MONEY, THIS HAS BEEN THE CASE. ANY VINTAGE CUE THAT HAS BEEN RDONE WILL BRING LESS THAN ALL ORIGINAL, UNLESS THE CUE WAS BEAT TO CRAP.

I'M SURE YEARS AGO GUYS DIDN'T THINK TWICE ABOUT REFINISHING A GUS, BUT THAT WAS LONG BEFORE A 4 POINT GUS WAS 5k OR MORE.

Marcus
 
In general It is always best to leave the old stuff alone. It kills me when some one takes an early or vintage cue from a cue-maker that is still practicing his trade to some one else for a refinish and and/or a new shaft.

In my opinion you have Tad refinish a Tad, Ernie refinish a Gina, Barry refinish a Barry or a Gus Etc....

If an oldie Paradise or Palmer for example,is in good to excellent original condition, I find it far more interesting than the same cue that has been refinished to perfection, No matter who did the work.

Sometimes you do have save an old ones life though. Remember Jay Helfert's Gina under the spare tire cue...That cue for example, Was not really a "pool cue" any longer. I think most cues should at least be restored to being in playable condition. Unless they such a rare artifact as to have more value intrinsically as an all original antique, than as usable pool cue.
 
jayman said:
In general It is always best to leave the old stuff alone. It kills me when some one takes an early or vintage cue from a cue-maker that is still practicing his trade to some one else for a refinish and and/or a new shaft.

In my opinion you have Tad refinish a Tad, Ernie refinish a Gina, Barry refinish a Barry or a Gus Etc....

If an oldie Paradise or Palmer for example,is in good to excellent original condition, I find it far more interesting than the same cue that has been refinished to perfection, No matter who did the work.

Sometimes you do have save an old ones life though. Remember Jay Helfert's Gina under the spare tire cue...That cue for example, Was not really a "pool cue" any longer. I think most cues should at least be restored to being in playable condition. Unless they such a rare artifact as to have more value intrinsically as an all original antique, than as usable pool cue.
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I agree the refinish guy should be the cue maker if possible.

I broke that rule once, but it was just ona plane jane tad that was my daily player, I wore off all the yellowish laquor finish Tad was using at the time, around 89 is when the cue was built. It took it to Jerry Franklin because I liked the Emron he used and I wanted to save Tads wrap, Jerry did a perfect job, he passed away shortly after that-so I put the cue into semi retirement, I still use it occasionally. That cue is very special to me. There are exceptions to the rule and this is was one of them.

best
eric
 
Dilema...

Good post OP. I'm facing this decision as we speak. I purchased a very fancy Rambow a while ago, some of you may remember it. 4 shafts, one playable of the 4, alot of ivory. The cue is rough, and I got many good suggestions here from many of you as to what to do/not do to it.

Some said to leave it alone, period. Some said to do as little as possible, to make it playable again. Some advised that, it depends on what I may have planned for the cue, re-sell? Keep and pass it down? Others say, as someone else mentioned, that it depends on who would do the refinish/restore, and that would ultimately effect the eventual value.

I was fortunate enough to have someone vouch for me, and perhaps was given a huge favor, as the cue is now at a HOF cue makers shop. He did say that it would be a while before he could start anything on it, and I related that it wouldn't be a problem, as I would have otherwise never of had this maker even consider doing the work for me, and feel very fortunate.

But he did say, to start thinking about what I would want done, and to what extent, so when the time comes, he can be ready. I'm trying to figure out a way to have it "tastefully restored".

Right now, I feel if I didn't have this opportunity, I would just leave it alone, have a couple shafts made, and be done. But now, I'm leaning towards an overhaul (cue overhaulin' ?) because of who has it now. Whatever happens, I'll be sure to post pics here and take cover in a bunker!

Kevin
 
Fatboy said:
This was part of a post I just made:

There are 2 ways to look at it, I have my opion and could be wrong whate your thoughts on this???

One thing thats going to become a issue in cue collecting over the next 10+ years since there is going to be so many new fancy cues-the question of a older or vintage cue being refinished or all origonal will become a big thing. In Watches if a 50 year old Rolex has been refinished its worth less than a origonal watch of the same model. Same will hold true in cues-mark my words. Five years after Gus passed away no one would think twice about having a Gus refinished, now that dosent look like the smart play to me. new shafts are fine to play with, playing with a Gus is the greatest idea period. But to cut off a seasoned origonal Gus wrap-I dont think thats to smart. Unless the cue is beat to death then yes a refinish is a good plan. Like I said there are 2 ways to look at this for all cue makers work.


i think this is a interesting topic.
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Speaking of this very conversation, I know some one who has two Gus Szamboti Cues that have never hit a Ball except as a test with only one of the two shafts. The last time I talked with the owner I think they may be coming up for sale.

Fatboy, what do you think those cues would be worth, and how many unplayed Gus cues do you think or know may still be out there?

Take care
 
Fatboy said:
This was part of a post I just made:

There are 2 ways to look at it, I have my opion and could be wrong whate your thoughts on this???

One thing thats going to become a issue in cue collecting over the next 10+ years since there is going to be so many new fancy cues-the question of a older or vintage cue being refinished or all origonal will become a big thing. In Watches if a 50 year old Rolex has been refinished its worth less than a origonal watch of the same model. Same will hold true in cues-mark my words. Five years after Gus passed away no one would think twice about having a Gus refinished, now that dosent look like the smart play to me. new shafts are fine to play with, playing with a Gus is the greatest idea period. But to cut off a seasoned origonal Gus wrap-I dont think thats to smart. Unless the cue is beat to death then yes a refinish is a good plan. Like I said there are 2 ways to look at this for all cue makers work.


i think this is a interesting topic.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I could send you some links.. lol

Anyways, two cues, take a 4 point Gus, All original, with minimal play.. should get more than a mint refinished Gus, regardless of who does the work. However that same original Gus that has been played to 11.5mm shafts, got more craters than Kirstie Ally's thighs, would be worht a lot less.. take that cue and have Barry restore it, now it has to be worth more than it was but less than if it was all original beat up. I know there are people that might disagree with me, but when the cue has reached the point that it can no longer be used for what it was intended, or is close, it needs to be fixed.

Of course the level of restoration, more or less, could be contested by a buyer or a collector that bases a premium on originality.

JV
 
manwon said:
Speaking of this very conversation, I know some one who has two Gus Szamboti Cues that have never hit a Ball except as a test with only one of the two shafts. The last time I talked with the owner I think they may be coming up for sale.

Fatboy, what do you think those cues would be worth, and how many unplayed Gus cues do you think or know may still be out there?

Take care
Click to expand...


I bet there are about 20 unplayed Gus cues, thats a guess. I have heard a number of people claim that and I believe them. So based on what I recall and adding in a few cues that may have went straight into collections(granted there were alot less back then) I suppose there are 20 Gus cues brand new. I have about 5 or 6 Barrys that have never hit a ball to the best of my knowlege and by the looks of the cues maybe as high as 8. I would love to show them to you any time your in Vegas.:smile:


second part, what would a unplayed Gus be worth? probably 20% on a 4 point player cue and perhaps 40% on a Box cue thats loaded or a loaded 6pt. the rarer the cue the higher the % increase for being new. Thats just simple supply/demand, its such a narrow market funny things could happen.
 
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Here is my take. A Szamboti or a Balabushka need to remain as original as possible. I think everyone agrees with that point.

With the next decade bringing more fancy cues inlaid with precious metals, refinishes will become mandatory. Those cues with a ton of silver work will have finish issues. It doesn't matter if it is a 5K cue or a 100K cue. To recoup your investment the cue will probably have to be perfect, and any work done should be done by the maker. Those old Szamboti's and Balabushka's will still be right where they were, plain and simple perfection, and worth tons more to boot.
 
Corvette world went through this about 25 years ago. Only the prettyiest would bring the big money. Lots of realy nice original cars got restored and repainted. Now the original cars bring as much as 2X over a restored car. I value my original paint and interior 63 K code Fairlane over my fully restored 69 scj Mustang or my repainted driver quality 66 Shelby. If you don't believe me just look at my user name. Dought I will ever refinish my 79 vintage Scruggs. I like it just the way it is!

Larry
 
Collecting.........

The same holds true for all collectables,,,,,,,,leave them in all original condition,,I had an all original 1948 Harley Pan Head with , no joke,,,the original mud on it.

I found it out of a barn in Rhienbeck, N.Y...sold it years back to a guy in New England and got stupid money for it,,

If the new owner wants to mess with it and change anything whether it be a cue, a car a bike,,whatever, thats their choice but to me, I'm an all origanal nut.......just my seasoned advice,,,,,,,Alan,,,,,,,
 
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