Vegas team jumping and league fees.

[Celtic]

6 man BCA team, planning on going to Vegas with 6 from the start of the regular season. Chemistry of the team is decent, one player is a little out of the loop and does not quite fit chemistry-wise and is shooting hot and cold. The 6 players all on the team are very close in skill level so as to be nearly identical in substitutions. No matter who asked to sit out in Vegas things will be difficult.

This is the first place team in the league and have already assured winning the season, jackets, and is a heavy favorite to win a trip. Each team in the league wins a minimum amount of money in the order of $1000+. 1/2 teams win a trip where the travel allowance won is in the neighborhood of $3000+.

At the start of the season it was determined that each of the 6 people on the team pay equal amounts of the total league fees owed for the season regardless of the number of weeks played and then split the travel and hotel allowance 6 ways. The total league fees paid by each player not including sanction fees or table fees is $425.

Situation arises where the odd man out chemistry wise has the chance to join another team forming for Vegas who only have 4 players and takes the offer, leaving the original team now with 5 players for Vegas. He does so at the point where there is only 2 weeks of the regular session left and the trip playoffs. He claims he is willing to play out the season and playoffs. The team refuses the offer of the player playing out the season and playoffs understandably and removes the player from the team immediately.

The player who chose to play with a different team in Vegas now requests either a return of the portion of the league fees in the amount of $265 ($425 minus 8 weeks worth of league fees required to compete in Vegas) or to still be eligible for 1/6th of the winnings since he paid 1/6th of the teams total league fees for the year.

The question becomes, is the player entitled to any of the $425 in league fees he paid? If the answer is no is the player with 1/6th of the league fees paid into the team still entitled to his percentage of the travel allowance winnings? And the last query is the player entitled to one of the jackets awarded to the top team in the league after playing most of the season with that team?

 

[hivoltg]

If I understand your post correctly, I'd give him 2 weeks of league dues back. That is what I understand to be left in the regular season, and since he won't be on the team for that portion of the league, he shouldn't pay.

Once he is given this amount of money back, I would tell him to pound sand

 

[hivoltg]

And you need more options on your poll:thumbup:

 

[cajunfats]

The Answer

6 man BCA team, planning on going to Vegas with 6 from the start of the regular season. Chemistry of the team is decent, one player is a little out of the loop and does not quite fit chemistry-wise and is shooting hot and cold. The 6 players all on the team are very close in skill level so as to be nearly identical in substitutions. No matter who asked to sit out in Vegas things will be difficult.

This is the first place team in the league and have already assured winning the season, jackets, and is a heavy favorite to win a trip. Each team in the league wins a minimum amount of money in the order of $1000+. 1/2 teams win a trip where the travel allowance won is in the neighborhood of $3000+.

At the start of the season it was determined that each of the 6 people on the team pay equal amounts of the total league fees owed for the season regardless of the number of weeks played and then split the travel and hotel allowance 6 ways. The total league fees paid by each player not including sanction fees or table fees is $425.

Situation arises where the odd man out chemistry wise has the chance to join another team forming for Vegas who only have 4 players and takes the offer, leaving the original team now with 5 players for Vegas. He does so at the point where there is only 2 weeks of the regular session left and the trip playoffs. He claims he is willing to play out the season and playoffs. The team refuses the offer of the player playing out the season and playoffs understandably and removes the player from the team immediately.

The player who chose to play with a different team in Vegas now requests either a return of the portion of the league fees in the amount of $265 ($425 minus 8 weeks worth of league fees required to compete in Vegas) or to still be eligible for 1/6th of the winnings since he paid 1/6th of the teams total league fees for the year.

The question becomes, is the player entitled to any of the $425 in league fees he paid? If the answer is no is the player with 1/6th of the league fees paid into the team still entitled to his percentage of the travel allowance winnings? And the last query is the player entitled to one of the jackets awarded to the top team in the league after playing most of the season with that team?

The answer to your question is that you discuss all of this with your league operator. If you aren't satisfied with their response,then both of you get on the phone to the BCA Pool League office and speak to someone there for a fair adjudication of the matter. I knew the answer immediately when I read it. I could not in all fairness become involved with this.I used to be the Assistant League and Program Director for the BCA League System some years back,and had to handle changes for entries to Vegas...a lot!!! Good Luck.

 

[cuejunkie]

This is the first place team in the league and have already assured winning the season, jackets, and is a heavy favorite to win a trip. Each team in the league wins a minimum amount of money in the order of $1000+. 1/2 teams win a trip where the travel allowance won is in the neighborhood of $3000+.

At the start of the season it was determined that each of the 6 people on the team pay equal amounts of the total league fees owed for the season regardless of the number of weeks played and then split the travel and hotel allowance 6 ways. The total league fees paid by each player not including sanction fees or table fees is $425.

From my perspective, the player is entitled to the $425 since that was what was "determined" at the start of the season "regardless" of the # of weeks played.

In that same token, since he quit the team and would obviously no longer be a member of that team, I believe he forfeits his claim on the travel allowance money.

Just my $0.02 (so not worth much and not worth disputing)

 

[hivoltg]

From my perspective, the player is entitled to the $425 since that was what was "determined" at the start of the season "regardless" of the $ of weeks played.

In that same token, since he quit the team and would obviously no longer be a member of that team, I believe he forfeits his claim on the travel allowance money.

Just my $0.02 (so not worth much and not worth disputing)

So he played the whole league, minus the last 2 weeks and you want to give him all his league dues back?

 

[Stixnballs]

I had the same situation happen a couple of years ago with one of my teams. some questions and observations -----

1. Would you have won all the matches the 6th player shot in and still be league champion?

2. You mentioned that it would be difficult to have someone sit out while in vegas (trust me I know what you mean) everyone wants to play.

3. Another team wants to go to vegas and play but only has 4 players willing to go, and if your 6th joins them, than both teams have 5 and everyone plays correct? seems like a good solution for all involved.

Since he played all year (less 2 weeks) I think he is entitled to his share of the winnings since he contributed 100% of the weekly dues and fees (not to mention table time). I also think it is wrong to try and refund his dues and kick him to the curb and split the winnings. By my calculation you are going through all this aggrivation over (4000/6 = 667.00 or 4000/5 = 800.00) so the questions is:

Is it really worth the aggrivation to all players on both teams for an issue over 133.00 per player?

I don't know about your team - but pool in our league is never about the money. League pool is about making friends, having a good time and if the money won covers our annual Vegas Trip that's the gravy on top!!!!

I would look at the situation from outside the box and put yourself in that players shoes and what if that other team asked you to play - how would you handle it or expect it handled to make you happy.

hope it all works out and maybe we will run into each other in Vegas.

 

[Keith Buck]

He didn't really quit on the team for the league but only for the Vegas trip as he was willing to play out the rest of the season. I would calculate any of the tournament expenses which are fixed regardless of the number of players on the team and then give him the portion of the travel allowance/league winnings which are left over.

For example, the tournament entry fee is going to be the same so I would subtract 1/6 of that from his portion of the total. If you were going to get three rooms with two players per room and you are still going to get three rooms he should pay 1/6 of that as well (of course he could probably still use the room as there are 5 players on the other team as well). I'm assuming you are flying but if you were going to rent a van I would charge him for 1/6 of the rent and gas as well.

If there is nothing taken out of the winnings to pay for the jackets then I don't see why you wouldn't give him the jacket unless you just feel like being spiteful.

 

[TheBook]

The guy quit on you to jump to another team. You owe him nothing. If it was due to some problem where he had to quit and dropped out of pool completely than it would be fair to include him. He was using you guys until a better deal came along.

$425 seems to be very expensive for a league. I wouldn't join a league that cost that much just for a chance to go to Vegas. I could add a few more dollars and booked a trip on my own.

 

[RShellhouse]

The guy quit on you to jump to another team. You owe him nothing. If it was due to some problem where he had to quit and dropped out of pool completely than it would be fair to include him. He was using you guys until a better deal came along.

$425 seems to be very expensive for a league. I wouldn't join a league that cost that much just for a chance to go to Vegas. I could add a few more dollars and booked a trip on my own.

I agree with the 425...but if you read it...the team kicked him off because he said he was going to play with another team in Vegas....where they were not going to play him anyhow...

R

 

[supergreenman]

This should be easy, take the total prize money and divide it by the number of games played. Then multiply that amount by the number of games the player played, give him that plus the jacket and wish him good luck in Vegas.

Don't cheap out on a team mate, and don't forget he didn't quit, you kicked him off the team at the end of the season after he solved a problem for you.

 

[Celtic]

The answer to your question is that you discuss all of this with your league operator. If you aren't satisfied with their response,then both of you get on the phone to the BCA Pool League office and speak to someone there for a fair adjudication of the matter. I knew the answer immediately when I read it. I could not in all fairness become involved with this.I used to be the Assistant League and Program Director for the BCA League System some years back,and had to handle changes for entries to Vegas...a lot!!! Good Luck.

Thanks for your input, given your experience it is good to see that there may be a way to find a fair adjudication on the matter.

I was unsure if the BCAPL took part in conflict resolution like this in their sanctioned leagues instead of leaving it to the local level. I wonder if Mark Griffin or Bill Stock could chime in with possible similar situations and the courses of action that were taken?

My past experience has been that people who switched teams in Vegas have still been given their share of the winnings of their original team from the local playoffs. People kicked off a team are given back their stake in the winnings of that team or they are still elegible for their cut of any winnings.

The responses are very mixed, which is not surprising given the topic.

 

[DrOnePocket]

From my perspective, the player is entitled to the $425 since that was what was "determined" at the start of the season "regardless" of the $ of weeks played.

In that same token, since he quit the team and would obviously no longer be a member of that team, I believe he forfeits his claim on the travel allowance money.

Just my $0.02 (so not worth much and not worth disputing)

You want to give him his money back for being a quitter? No wonder we don't get along

 

[Celtic]

$425 seems to be very expensive for a league. I wouldn't join a league that cost that much just for a chance to go to Vegas. I could add a few more dollars and booked a trip on my own.

The league fees are reasonable given the payout at the end of the year.

There are 6 teams total in the division each paying $2550 to play for the season.

For those 6 teams 3 trip packages are available worth about $4000 or so including $3500 cash as a travel allowance. The remaining 3 teams not winning a trip package will likely win no less then $1000 cash as the runner up prizes.

So the league is bringing in about $15,300 in league fees for that division and are paying out about $15,000 in prizes at the end of the year tournament.

The top team wins no money for finishing first, they win jackets and become the top seed in the non-handicapped tournament for the division.

The league fees are more then fair in relation to the payout and high percentage of trip packages in the division.

******************************

That is where the issue above arises, the player kicked off the team due to commiting to play with another team in Vegas is loosing his portion of the possible prize winnings at the local end of the year tournament. The player never quit the local team for the remainder of the season or end of the year tournament and had in fact wanted to play out the remainder of the season with the team with which he has a finacial investment with on the outcome of the end of the year tournament.

He was booted from the team when he stated his intentions to play with others in Vegas and the question is whether that player is out the investment and chance to win, with the players who remain on the team who paid 1/6th of the seasons league fees now playing for 1/5th shares in the end of the year tournament winnings and the player kicked off the team out the 1/6th investment into the team and out a share of the local end of the year prizes as well.

 

[Big Perm]

IMHO, buy him out with the $265 and be done with it.....among 5 people, that is $50 a piece.....per his agreement, he get's no jacket or any future monies of any kind.......keep it simple, write it down, and get the LO involved so everybody is on the same page....put it behind you and good luck in Vegas...

 

[Neil]

..............

 

[overtaker]

league fees

6 man bca team, planning on going to vegas with 6 from the start of the regular season. Chemistry of the team is decent, one player is a little out of the loop and does not quite fit chemistry-wise and is shooting hot and cold. The 6 players all on the team are very close in skill level so as to be nearly identical in substitutions. No matter who asked to sit out in vegas things will be difficult.

This is the first place team in the league and have already assured winning the season, jackets, and is a heavy favorite to win a trip. Each team in the league wins a minimum amount of money in the order of $1000+. 1/2 teams win a trip where the travel allowance won is in the neighborhood of $3000+.

At the start of the season it was determined that each of the 6 people on the team pay equal amounts of the total league fees owed for the season regardless of the number of weeks played and then split the travel and hotel allowance 6 ways. The total league fees paid by each player not including sanction fees or table fees is $425.

Situation arises where the odd man out chemistry wise has the chance to join another team forming for vegas who only have 4 players and takes the offer, leaving the original team now with 5 players for vegas. He does so at the point where there is only 2 weeks of the regular session left and the trip playoffs. He claims he is willing to play out the season and playoffs. The team refuses the offer of the player playing out the season and playoffs understandably and removes the player from the team immediately.

The player who chose to play with a different team in vegas now requests either a return of the portion of the league fees in the amount of $265 ($425 minus 8 weeks worth of league fees required to compete in vegas) or to still be eligible for 1/6th of the winnings since he paid 1/6th of the teams total league fees for the year.

The question becomes, is the player entitled to any of the $425 in league fees he paid? If the answer is no is the player with 1/6th of the league fees paid into the team still entitled to his percentage of the travel allowance winnings? And the last query is the player entitled to one of the jackets awarded to the top team in the league after playing most of the season with that team?

who cares?

 

[cuejunkie]

..........

 

[Celtic]

To the top one time for the weekend crowd in hopes of getting an opinion or two more or some official word on how this is handled by the powers that be.

 

[mikeyfrost]

Did he actually quit or was he forced off? If he was forced off than for sure he deserves some money back. If he voluntarily quit than thats a part of quitting to get nothing back.