CTE aiming.

Roger Long said:
I wasn't trying to be profound, MOJOE; I was trying to be simple. It's CTE that's profound. And it's for that very reason that I don't think it is a method that very many players can understand. You say it works for you, and I believe you. Dave (Spidey) says it works for him, and I believe him too. But I haven't seen any champions come on here and say they didn't reach champion-speed until they learned CTE. As far as that goes, I wonder just how many pro players would even tell you that they have tried using CTE - or maybe even heard of CTE? My guess is, not many.

My biggest problems with CTE are these:

1. The implication that it can improve anybody's game. I don't believe it can. It is just another stick aiming method, and a very complicated one at that. It is not magic, and it is only "easy" to those who are wired to "see" it. Other players will "see" other methods much easier.

2. While I am not a member of Randy G's "SPF (Set, Pause, Finish) Family of Billiard Instructors," I definitely agree with their philosophy. The word SET has real meaning. I believe that once you are SET up over a shot, you should move nothing off of your straight line of aim until the cue ball is well on its way to the target. That means NO pivot. Call me stubborn and old-fashioned if you will, but all this talk about pivots puts a scare into me! :eek:

I'm happy your shooting well, MOJOE. Keep up the good work. :thumbup:

Roger <----new Spidey fan (but not CTE) :):grin::D:grin-square:
Click to expand...

Funny, those who have learned CTE say it has revolutionized their game (it has mine).

CTE is easy. It's the "math guys" on here who over-complicate (because they want back up for claims). I guess we get into the math for philosophical reasons; but, if you can't see a CTEL--- offset your bridge and pivot to center--- I'm not sure what you think simple is. CTE is the simplest method out there. Hal used to say, "Just CTE and the ball goes in the hole." He was the master of simplification.

LOTS of guys move their cue laterally while set. Whether it's BHE or pivoting to aim--- watch youtube videos of top pros. Many guys move their stick while addressing the ball--- more so than those who "set."

I'm NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT knocking SPF. I'm just saying the picture of pro pool is not a "set" world. As a player becomes advanced, pivoting/swooping/elbow drops/hand rolls-wrist turns become more and more commonplace.

I think even the best SPF players should always explore techniques that are new to them and assess the benefits before passing judgment. As far as instruction goes, I think SPF is super.

Dave
 
Last edited:
Just because you use it doesn't mean you understand it. Everyone on this board uses transistors but I'd be surprised if 10% could explain how they work. Some are better able to learn if they understand the system. Some people just want to understand the system. Lining up a shot is a complicated matter whether or not you use a seemingly simple way of achieving it.

I'm not critical of people for using something and not understanding it. It would be great if people cut a little slack to those who do want to understand beyond shift-pivot-shoot.
 
woody_968 said:
I agree, but you can still become set after using CTE/Pro One to get in position.

I think you and Spidey are interpreting "set" differently.
Click to expand...

Possibly. I think (guess) Roger sees "set" as not moving the cue at all when you step into the shot. You can def "set" after an aiming pivot or bhe pivot.
I think he condones zero movement - and that's ok. I hear that a lot. I'm not subscriber to that - but that's just me.

Dave
 
Will some of you give up the sarcastic ,mute points that you keep posting,your not even asking just taking pop shots when possible,I am not going to call your names but GROW UP,I am trying to learn something and have to read all this BS about mines better than yours,the WORLD knows the old way, the ones that dont will contact you.
 
Roger Long said:
[...]
I believe that once you are SET up over a shot, you should move nothing off of your straight line of aim until the cue ball is well on its way to the target. That means NO pivot. Call me stubborn and old-fashioned if you will, but all this talk about pivots puts a scare into me! :eek:[...]
Click to expand...

I don't think any of the pivoter folk here advocate pivoting after getting into the set position. In fact I think they would agree with your first sentence above.

This is all, imo, a discussion about how to best approach the set position.
 
mikepage said:
I don't think any of the pivoter folk here advocate pivoting after getting into the set position. In fact I think they would agree with your first sentence above.

This is all, imo, a discussion about how to best approach the set position.
Click to expand...

If you play with BHE exclusively (like me), would the set position be my post-pivot position when my english is set?

Dave
 
mikepage said:
I don't think any of the pivoter folk here advocate pivoting after getting into the set position. In fact I think they would agree with your first sentence above.

This is all, imo, a discussion about how to best approach the set position.
Click to expand...

I am not sure I understand the discussion as I am jumping in on this post. I pivot to the desired spin AFTER my bridge hand is set.

Here are a couple videos on YouTube where I demonstrate this.

BHE Demo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuYNF0yF6zY

BHE - Bridge Length Demo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNrpN3V15fY

In both of these I show the pivot to english AFTER the bridge hand is set.

I really hope that SOMEDAY a lot of us can get together with a couple cameras and have a real discussion on the table with the cameras rolling. I think that such a video would be highly useful to everyone.
 
JB Cases said:
I am not sure I understand the discussion as I am jumping in on this post. I pivot to the desired spin AFTER my bridge hand is set.

Here are a couple videos on YouTube where I demonstrate this.

BHE Demo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuYNF0yF6zY

BHE - Bridge Length Demo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNrpN3V15fY

In both of these I show the pivot to english AFTER the bridge hand is set.

I really hope that SOMEDAY a lot of us can get together with a couple cameras and have a real discussion on the table with the cameras rolling. I think that such a video would be highly useful to everyone.
Click to expand...

Your U-Tube makes it as Clear as Gin in a Crystle Glass. NUFF SAID!!
 
FYI, some additional videos demonstrating and describing BHE, and how to use it, can be found here:


Here's one that demonstrates when it does and doesn't work, along with how to find a cue's natural pivot length:


And this video demonstrates how net deflection (AKA squerve) varies for different types of shots:


Check them out,
Dave

JB Cases said:
I am not sure I understand the discussion as I am jumping in on this post. I pivot to the desired spin AFTER my bridge hand is set.

Here are a couple videos on YouTube where I demonstrate this.

BHE Demo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuYNF0yF6zY

BHE - Bridge Length Demo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNrpN3V15fY

In both of these I show the pivot to english AFTER the bridge hand is set.

I really hope that SOMEDAY a lot of us can get together with a couple cameras and have a real discussion on the table with the cameras rolling. I think that such a video would be highly useful to everyone.
Click to expand...
 
dr_dave said:
FYI, some additional videos demonstrating and describing BHE, and how to use it, can be found here:


Here's one that demonstrates when it does and doesn't work, along with how to find a cue's natural pivot length:


And this video demonstrates how net deflection (AKA squerve) varies for different types of shots:


Check them out,
Dave
Click to expand...

BHE English works with just about any bridge length. I use it 100% of the time with short bridge lengths, long ones and everything in between.

Here's the thing with me - IF I use BHE and look AT the object ball then I will miss the shot every time due to deflection. If I look beyond the object ball then it goes and the english takes beautifully.

Why would that be? I don't really know but I know that it WORKS.

So I could make a video showing that BHE "doesn't work" by doing it the way I know doesn't work.

I don't know the pivot point of my cues. I use multiple bridge lengths and am able to make the balls using BHE as demonstrated in the video.

Also BHE works for slow shots as well - I need to find the time to make a video showing this as well.

I think that BHE deserves way more examples and time devoted to it.
 
Hey...back to CTE.
Is this what SWC Dave means about ARC and not OFFSET?

CTE_ARC.jpg
 
JB Cases said:
I am not sure I understand the discussion as I am jumping in on this post. I pivot to the desired spin AFTER my bridge hand is set.

Here are a couple videos on YouTube where I demonstrate this.

BHE Demo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuYNF0yF6zY

BHE - Bridge Length Demo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNrpN3V15fY

In both of these I show the pivot to english AFTER the bridge hand is set.[...]
Click to expand...

Yes I agree. But bridge hand being "set" is not what we mean by the SET position.

You put down your bridge hand,

then pivot to the desired english

then you pause before the final backstroke. This is your SET. From here it is just smooth back and forward.

Some people have advocated Dynamic Back Hand English (DGHE). This is different from what you do in the video: it is where you

SET at centerball

begin to come straight back

swoop to apply english on the business forward stroke.

DBHE gives most instructors hemorrhoids, imo

I believe the CTE folk do like you do: get to the SET position after following the pivot prescription, and then stroke straight back and forward from there.
 
Net deflection (the combination of squirt and swerve, AKA squerve) varies a lot with shot speed and distance, cue elevation, conditions, and the amount and type of spin and English. You can certainly make BHE "work" for any bridge length provided you have good understanding or "feel" for all of the effects, and provided you adjust the right things the right amounts for the right shots. Good players (like it sounds like you are) can do this instinctively, based on lots of practice and experience (i.e., lots of missed shots in the past).

Regards,
Dave

JB Cases said:
BHE English works with just about any bridge length. I use it 100% of the time with short bridge lengths, long ones and everything in between.

Here's the thing with me - IF I use BHE and look AT the object ball then I will miss the shot every time due to deflection. If I look beyond the object ball then it goes and the english takes beautifully.

Why would that be? I don't really know but I know that it WORKS.

So I could make a video showing that BHE "doesn't work" by doing it the way I know doesn't work.

I don't know the pivot point of my cues. I use multiple bridge lengths and am able to make the balls using BHE as demonstrated in the video.

Also BHE works for slow shots as well - I need to find the time to make a video showing this as well.

I think that BHE deserves way more examples and time devoted to it.
Click to expand...
 
LAMas said:
Hey...back to CTE.
Is this what SWC Dave means about ARC and not OFFSET?

View attachment 134537
Click to expand...


Lamas - stay with me here:

use a 1/2 ball offset (tip at the CB edge) and point it into no man's land (only make sure the cue is parallel to the CTEL). I know Dr. Dave has the tip pointing at the CB edge, but I'm that's not standard. I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm just saying it's not what I was taught nor is it something I know a lot about and it's def not something I mastered.
 
mikepage said:
Yes I agree. But bridge hand being "set" is not what we mean by the SET position.

You put down your bridge hand,

then pivot to the desired english

then you pause before the final backstroke. This is your SET. From here it is just smooth back and forward.

Some people have advocated Dynamic Back Hand English (DGHE). This is different from what you do in the video: it is where you

SET at centerball

begin to come straight back

swoop to apply english on the business forward stroke.

DBHE gives most instructors hemorrhoids, imo

I believe the CTE folk do like you do: get to the SET position after following the pivot prescription, and then stroke straight back and forward from there.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike, I can always count on you to set me straight.
 
Hey guys, here's what I'll do. I'll deliver a webinar on CTE and the mechanics involved. I'll deliver it pro-like with PPT and nice live video. I'll charge $50/person (via paypal). I'll only do it if there are at least 10 people interested. Otherwise, I'll keep responding to these posts until I get bored of it.

Here's how I'll use the money:

25% me (only because I'd put my time in to do this first-class)
75% Donate to Sunny and Hal for changing our lives with this information. Nothing would make me happier than showing up with an envelope full of $ and handing it to Hal and surprising him.

PM me if interested.
Dave
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top