All around best american player??

[john schmidt]

hi

Any list of top players has to include Mosconi. I don't think I even saw his name mentioned. And before anyone says he didn't play one pocket or 9-ball, let me assure you he did--and great, too. Moreover, he was a titanic force at 14.1

The other guy that hasn't received his due is Sigel. For 20 years he dominated all kinds of tournaments. He was a great 9-ball player, on par with Buddy Hall or Strickland or Varner and better than Miz at 9-ball. In straight pool he and Miz were arguably the best. I think it's kind of a toss between them, which is to say--awesome!

Among modern players, I think Larry Nevel is the most talented pool player I have ever seen. I've been around pool for over 40 years, and I lived in NYC most of that time, where I saw nearly all the greats. But I have never seen anyone with more skills or more knowledge than him. If he had the mental toughness of someone like Stevie Moore, I think Larry would be the best player in the world.

nevel is talented for sure but sometimes i think people mistake strength for talent.
larry is definitely one of the strongest physically on tour.
he can do stroke shots no one else can do ,thats not being more talented ,thats being stronger.

if he was the most talented he would have many titles but talent in pool is things like poise under pressure,shotmaking and cueball control.
dont get me wrong larry has all those talents for sure.

i guess it would be like saying bubba watson pro golfer is the most talented golfer on tour because he hits it the farthest,theres more to golf than hitting it far.

anyway im bringing this up because ive heard many times larry is the most talented poolplayer and frankly hes just the strongest ,big difference.

by the way when i ran 403 larry was overheard saying thats easy to do any pro could do it if they wanted.

i noticed in the last few 14.1 challeges i dont think larrys broken 50.


trust me running 400 takes more talent then doing stroke shots that have nothing to do with pool except they take strength.

in closing i think larry plays awesome and is extremely great player ,its just that strength and pool greatness are completely different things.

 

[suprnva]

Nevel finished 2nd to Earl in the 1-pkt event I mentioned. Daulton played too!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Are you trying to say that Earl is a better one-pocket player that Larry or Shannon based on the 2008 Carolina Classic? If so, I'm pretty sure you can get all the action you can imagine on Earl playing either one of them. Larry has won that event before and I'm pretty sure Shannon has as well. Also, when it comes to one-pocket, I always consider the Hall of Fame list on onepocket.org to be a good tool to see who's "the best". Here's the Top 5 (including ties):

Parica - 10
Reyes - 8
Nevel - 7
Varner - 7
Daulton - 6
Owen - 6

Of course everyone knows I'm biased and I have to show some love for my friend so I'll throw another stat out there quick. Larry Nevel and John Brumback are tied for the most top 10 finishes in the Derby City Classic Banks event. That's pretty strong if you ask me. Of course Danny Deliberto said during the Nevel vs Reyes semi's match this year that Larry was the surprise to be there so what the **** do I know? LOL.

 

[jay helfert]

Okay so today..April 2010 who's the best all around player...3 days of practice, playing all 5 games I think Shannon would take it off against pretty much anybody. Especially anyone in the USA.

That's what I said back in post #6!

 

[tattoo]

banks 9ball one pocket....might not be the greatest but can get there at any of these games.....jermey jones...

 

[suprnva]

nevel is talented for sure but sometimes i think people mistake strength for talent.
larry is definitely one of the strongest physically on tour.
he can do stroke shots no one else can do ,thats not being more talented ,thats being stronger.

if he was the most talented he would have many titles but talent in pool is things like poise under pressure,shotmaking and cueball control.
dont get me wrong larry has all those talents for sure.

i guess it would be like saying bubba watson pro golfer is the most talented golfer on tour because he hits it the farthest,theres more to golf than hitting it far.

anyway im bringing this up because ive heard many times larry is the most talented poolplayer and frankly hes just the strongest ,big difference.

by the way when i ran 403 larry was overheard saying thats easy to do any pro could do it if they wanted.

i noticed in the last few 14.1 challeges i dont think larrys broken 50.


trust me running 400 takes more talent then doing stroke shots that have nothing to do with pool except they take strength.

in closing i think larry plays awesome and is extremely great player ,its just that strength and pool greatness are completely different things.

John, do you want to play Larry some? You're both going to be in Vegas (as will I) and I'm sure there will be plenty of people there to back you. Or are you just gonna make up some lame ass excuse to not play him again?

Oh, and 14.1 is a practice game. Get over it! Larry has run over 100 many times and over 200 a few too. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it can't happen. No, it's no 400 or 403, but I agree that if any top player really wanted to do it, they could. You're just the one that thinks it's a real game and actually focuses on it long enough to make those runs.

 

[Roger Long]

nevel is talented for sure but sometimes i think people mistake strength for talent.
larry is definitely one of the strongest physically on tour.
he can do stroke shots no one else can do ,thats not being more talented ,thats being stronger.

if he was the most talented he would have many titles but talent in pool is things like poise under pressure,shotmaking and cueball control.
dont get me wrong larry has all those talents for sure.

i guess it would be like saying bubba watson pro golfer is the most talented golfer on tour because he hits it the farthest,theres more to golf than hitting it far.

anyway im bringing this up because ive heard many times larry is the most talented poolplayer and frankly hes just the strongest ,big difference.

by the way when i ran 403 larry was overheard saying thats easy to do any pro could do it if they wanted.

i noticed in the last few 14.1 challeges i dont think larrys broken 50.


trust me running 400 takes more talent then doing stroke shots that have nothing to do with pool except they take strength.

in closing i think larry plays awesome and is extremely great player ,its just that strength and pool greatness are completely different things.

Now if we're going to throw stroke strength into the mix, only one name comes to mind: Mike Massey. :thumbup:

Can anybody tell I'm a Mike Massey fan?

Roger

 

[suprnva]

Now if we're going to throw stroke strength into the mix, only one name comes to mind: Mike Massey. :thumbup:

Can anybody tell I'm a Mike Massey fan?

Roger

Massey has an amazing stroke, but I think the most amazing thing he does is when he spins the balls with his hand. Of course with hands the size of Texas it's probably pretty easy to do. lol.

 

[mikeyfrost]

That's what I said back in post #6!

Jay you are as smart as everyone says you are. I talk to Paul Baker all the time at the pool hall and he always says you had a ton of style and real flashy!

John, do you want to play Larry some? You're both going to be in Vegas (as will I) and I'm sure there will be plenty of people there to back you. Or are you just gonna make up some lame ass excuse to not play him again?

Oh, and 14.1 is a practice game. Get over it! Larry has run over 100 many times and over 200 a few too. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it can't happen. No, it's no 400 or 403, but I agree that if any top player really wanted to do it, they could. You're just the one that thinks it's a real game and actually focuses on it long enough to make those runs.

Ummm bring an extra few barrells in case things don't go your way if they play...just sayin'!

 

[suprnva]

Ummm bring an extra few barrells in case things don't go your way if they play...just sayin'!

Larry has a backer for all his action so anything in the middle is between them. I have a family to support so I can't bet a lot, but obviously I'll bet what I can afford on the side. I guarantee the majority of people feel that John is the favorite and I don't blame them. John has a couple big titles to his name and Larry doesn't. But the last time they gambled Larry came out on top and since then John always has had an excuse to not play. That has to say something. Maybe it's just me though.

 

[DangerousDave]

Oh, and 14.1 is a practice game. Get over it! Larry has run over 100 many times and over 200 a few too. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it can't happen. No, it's no 400 or 403, but I agree that if any top player really wanted to do it, they could. You're just the one that thinks it's a real game and actually focuses on it long enough to make those runs.

Players like Sigel and Mizerak played 14.1 all their lives and didn't run 400. To say any top player could do it if they wanted to is not just demonstrably false, but pretty disrespectful to John.

 

[suprnva]

Players like Sigel and Mizerak played 14.1 all their lives and didn't run 400. To say any top player could do it if they wanted to is not just demonstrably false, but pretty disrespectful to John.

I could be wrong. Maybe John is the only person that can do it. Whatever though, it's still a practice game in my opinion.

And John will never have my respect as I'm sure I'll never have his. That's just the way it is.

 

[cuetechasaurus]

I don't see how anyone can not say it's John Schmidt. He might be the best 14.1 player in the world, or at least he is even with the Europeans. He is a US Open 9-ball champion. He is a top notch one pocket player, with several titles in that discipline. The only game I'm leaving out is banks, which I'm sure he plays quite well.

 

[suprnva]

John,

Just got off the phone with Larry. A game can be made. You obviously believe you're a lock to win so you should get some of the free money while it's available.

-Patrick

Oh, and to everyone that's going to say this should be a PM, and looks like a PM, I already know that but I just want to make sure that it's out in the open that Larry will play John in Vegas so that if it doesn't happen people know which side said no.

 

[suprnva]

Oh, and to keep the thread on track a little, and so it doesn't look like I'm just here to talk shit to John...

If I had to make a team of 3 Americans for some sort of all-around format team event (because something like that happens everyday, lol) it would be Larry Nevel, Shannon Daulton and Gabe Owen. I think those 3 would be able to give any other 3 Americans a real tough game.

 

[Realizm]

Nick Varner was the man to beat He never gave up a true grinder .
I learned a lot from watching Nick.
Dennis Hatch is a grinder when it comes to 9ball ..

 

[real bartram]

We were including Straight Pool in this mix. Who do you think the favorite was there? Too bad you didn't see Sigel play 20 years ago. You might think differently. Shannon didn't have to like it playing One Pocket, and he wasn't even that big a favorite at Banks.

It is close as to who was best between these two as an All Around player, but IMO Sigel gets the nod based on his 14.1 and 9-Ball superiority.

im sorry to 14.1 fans i dont put this in the mix.
i dont know 5 people who play it .
you say shannon not that big of a fav playing one pocket have you bumped your head jay?

 

[1on1pooltournys]

I'd like to bet...

I would bet that if you asked top pros like...Archer, Shannon, Earl, Crane, Sigel, Lebron, and several others this question...the majority would have one answer...


The Kentucky Colonel..!!

I am sure some may not concur..but I bet that more than 80% of old school players that played in his time will agree he was the best all around American player.

Also, I think he would beat Schmidt playing 14.1 in his prime and One pocket for sure...

 

[jay helfert]

Jay you are as smart as everyone says you are. I talk to Paul Baker all the time at the pool hall and he always says you had a ton of style and real flashy!


That's nice of Paul. I learned a lot from him, whether he realizes it or not. You can tell him I said so. Paul was always one very smart cookie!

 

[jay helfert]

I could be wrong. Maybe John is the only person that can do it. Whatever though, it's still a practice game in my opinion.

And John will never have my respect as I'm sure I'll never have his. That's just the way it is.

There is a reason why Straight Pool was the main tournament game for decades. To play well took a vast knowledge of pool skills, and only the very best players could win tournaments. It's no accident that Mosconi, Caras and Crane ruled for so many years. Joe Balsis, Luther Lassiter and Ray Martin weren't exactly slouches either. What I observed is that ALL the good Straight Pool players could play any game. This was not necessarily the case with 9-Ball and One Pocket specialists, great though they may be.

The best pool players of my generation were Mizerak, Sigel, Rempe, Hopkins and Varner, all champion Straight Pool players. These fellows also excelled at the other pool games as well. All of them!

 

[jay helfert]

I would bet that if you asked top pros like...Archer, Shannon, Earl, Crane, Sigel, Lebron, and several others this question...the majority would have one answer...


The Kentucky Colonel..!!

I am sure some may not concur..but I bet that more than 80% of old school players that played in his time will agree he was the best all around American player.

Also, I think he would beat Schmidt playing 14.1 in his prime and One pocket for sure...

I must be in the 20% that would pick Sigel then. I would suggest that Mike had a winning record against Nick in all games! Yes, I said ALL games!