We are in the same exact model as well.
Oversight of BCAPL international teams?
- Thread starter Steve Lipsky
- Start date
We are in the same exact model as well.
I posted this before the tournament in the BCAPL Tournament sub forum...
Eligibility
E1 Tournament Eligibility
1. All players must be able to show picture ID and a valid U.S. Social Security Number or a Canadian Social Insurance number.
So this means that no teams or players from England, Spain, Portugal, etc. will be able to play this year. Interesting.
The response I received from the head BCAPL referee was that the rules are simply an outline and can be changed/amended as needed.
Mark Griffin does a great job with the BCAPL but I think that he puts more responsibility on some people then they need to have with this freedom. From rules that are written to this one above that are in direct contradiction to what actually occurs in the tournament to the example I gave of myself playing the same player twice in a field of 1300 players. When I inquired with the person running the tournament how this could happen, the answer I received was that it was easier to do it this way. I walked away before I said something that someone might regret. (BTW, I did not see Bull with the Bad Boys team this year- is he still involved?)
Eligibility
E1 Tournament Eligibility
1. All players must be able to show picture ID and a valid U.S. Social Security Number or a Canadian Social Insurance number.
So this means that no teams or players from England, Spain, Portugal, etc. will be able to play this year. Interesting.
The response I received from the head BCAPL referee was that the rules are simply an outline and can be changed/amended as needed.
Mark Griffin does a great job with the BCAPL but I think that he puts more responsibility on some people then they need to have with this freedom. From rules that are written to this one above that are in direct contradiction to what actually occurs in the tournament to the example I gave of myself playing the same player twice in a field of 1300 players. When I inquired with the person running the tournament how this could happen, the answer I received was that it was easier to do it this way. I walked away before I said something that someone might regret. (BTW, I did not see Bull with the Bad Boys team this year- is he still involved?)
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Foreign Concept
Perhaps I can shed a little light on the subject. Tony, compare the city league of say,Lisbon to the Portugese town of Beja. Technically,under the Portugese National Federation,they are under the same league. However,each of these city leagues is independently eligible to qualify to send people to Vegas. It is when a National Federation assembles a team from the combined national league system,what we American's call "cherry picking" players,that you have a problem meeting the criteria for the original intent of the guidelines for qualification. As an example,it would be like the German League System selecting the best players from Stuttgart,Munich,Hamburg,and Berlin to form a team to play as if they had played all year as one team. They cannot be considered a true team,as they didn't play together during the season. This is how Portugal's "Open Tournament" is a violation of the intent of the structure that leagues in the United States and Canada have operated under for over 30 years.The reason for such guidelines is to promote a fair competition between local leagues versus local leagues in a national event. It would be a small tournament if only the best player teams from each state and province would be allowed to send the 5 best players. This is exactly what transpired in the case of the team from Great Britain which consists of some pretty good players,however,it is doubtful you could find a league scoresheet to verify that 3 of them played league together for a session. I am not attempting to negate any accomplishment by the players,I am only dealing with the qualificaion process in the intent of the BCAPL Tournament.
Tony,I want you to know I am not some opinionated jerk,but a person who was actively involved with the BCA League System when Portugal,Spain,and Great Britain were being considered for admittance to the league system. I am also well versed in the European Pocket Billiard Federation,German National Pool League System,and the WPA/WCBS.
Perhaps I can shed a little light on the subject. Tony, compare the city league of say,Lisbon to the Portugese town of Beja. Technically,under the Portugese National Federation,they are under the same league. However,each of these city leagues is independently eligible to qualify to send people to Vegas. It is when a National Federation assembles a team from the combined national league system,what we American's call "cherry picking" players,that you have a problem meeting the criteria for the original intent of the guidelines for qualification. As an example,it would be like the German League System selecting the best players from Stuttgart,Munich,Hamburg,and Berlin to form a team to play as if they had played all year as one team. They cannot be considered a true team,as they didn't play together during the season. This is how Portugal's "Open Tournament" is a violation of the intent of the structure that leagues in the United States and Canada have operated under for over 30 years.The reason for such guidelines is to promote a fair competition between local leagues versus local leagues in a national event. It would be a small tournament if only the best player teams from each state and province would be allowed to send the 5 best players. This is exactly what transpired in the case of the team from Great Britain which consists of some pretty good players,however,it is doubtful you could find a league scoresheet to verify that 3 of them played league together for a session. I am not attempting to negate any accomplishment by the players,I am only dealing with the qualificaion process in the intent of the BCAPL Tournament.
Tony,I want you to know I am not some opinionated jerk,but a person who was actively involved with the BCA League System when Portugal,Spain,and Great Britain were being considered for admittance to the league system. I am also well versed in the European Pocket Billiard Federation,German National Pool League System,and the WPA/WCBS.
Is Mike F a team master,the kids missed quite a few in the finals but Wis played thier worst match of the day,they left alot of tables they were winning earlier,in the last 3 games when score was tied at 10 or so both guys overran easy shape on black and last guy played for a hard bank when he could have opted for a cut,i think fatigue was an issue
Good point here but those score sheets do exist and all the information was provided to the BCA before admittance to the Open.
Hey watchez, did you check Baby Kong's ID? Did it say Baby Kong on it? I think that's who you played twice, correct?
When it comes to the playing the same person twice, I kinda get where it comes from. Seeing as how the open division starts off with so many brackets, you might play the same person on the winners side and the one-loss side until you've reached the finals bracket. It seems odd since most tournaments only have 1 bracket, but if they did that in Vegas you'd need an extension ladder to see the top half of the bracket. lol. I hope that makes sense.
As for the Portugal teams, it's flawed for sure. Obviously the singles events are a different story because it doesn't matter if everyone played in the same league if they are playing singles, but for the team event it matters. It would be like if here in Wisconsin we just had 1 huge league to cover the entire state and then picked the 5 best players from EVERYONE that played in Wisconsin and sent them to Vegas for the team division. Just like the guy from Texas said, I'd guarantee that Wisconsin would win every year.
When it comes to the playing the same person twice, I kinda get where it comes from. Seeing as how the open division starts off with so many brackets, you might play the same person on the winners side and the one-loss side until you've reached the finals bracket. It seems odd since most tournaments only have 1 bracket, but if they did that in Vegas you'd need an extension ladder to see the top half of the bracket. lol. I hope that makes sense.
As for the Portugal teams, it's flawed for sure. Obviously the singles events are a different story because it doesn't matter if everyone played in the same league if they are playing singles, but for the team event it matters. It would be like if here in Wisconsin we just had 1 huge league to cover the entire state and then picked the 5 best players from EVERYONE that played in Wisconsin and sent them to Vegas for the team division. Just like the guy from Texas said, I'd guarantee that Wisconsin would win every year.
Well...
The moneys paid during league time go to a money pool and then that money is used to buy the travel and paid expenses. The players it self are not getting paid. The same thing as getting to the end of your league season, you get 1st or 2nd place and you get paid from the league operator. Instead those players win the right to come to Vegas for the BCA, does that make them Pro's?
In the team event we did not do very good except the masters, but most of the players play on the same teams locally.
That's the issue, right there. If you take 3 players that were on a team in Lisbon and 2 that were on a team in Braga, it's "cherry picking". Here in Wisconsin we can't take 3 players from Madison and 2 from Green Bay and make a team. In Texas you can't take 3 from Dallas and 2 from Houston and make a team. Do you see the point we're trying to make yet?
I have spoken to the Spanish players - I was told that they play pool for a living. That their government pays for them to live so they can play pool and be a member of their club that trains them to play pool.
Suprnva - Yes the person I played twice was Baby Kong Bailey Jr. He is from Wisconsin. Nice guy. I joked with him and asked to see his driver's license. He said that the name Baby Kong was his legal registered name with the BCAPL. Not really sure why the BCAPL let him register as such but didn't really matter to me. Next year I am going to register as Watchez Sobel and see what happens.
Anyways, the sub tournament boards for each bracket are big enough that you shouldn't have to play the same person twice or if so then group two brackets together so it doesn't happen. Eventually you are going to have to get moved off your original bracket board and with the computer system they have, it shouldnt be too hard for people to follow to find their name.
He's from Wisconsin? I glanced over and saw him but I didn't recognize him. Look for Suprnva Smith on the brackets next year too. :thumbup:
I agree that they should combine two of the sub-brackets. Even if they do that though, you could play someone on the winners side and then play them again in the final match on the losers side before you get to the finals bracket. That's not as bad as playing them and then having to play them again a match or two later and still 3 or 4 matches from the finals board I suppose.
All you need is a good software program and a plotter and you should have no issues with people playing each other twice before a 4th place match. I've said this many times that the pre-lim bracket system is not only unfair but just plain lazy. So yes Watchez I feel like you got the shaft even if you don't.
Portugal's team still isn't very legit however I will say that I have been told there are teams out of Minnesota, Iowa, Texas, and Wisconsin that have players on them that don't live within 200 miles of each other. They just drive in and get the minimal amount of plays so they can be on a team together. With all due respect, I also feel like that's lame as hell. So not picking on just Portugal, I feel like it's simple, wherever you have proof of residence, you should have to play in the closest available league to you.
Just my $.02
Portugal's team still isn't very legit however I will say that I have been told there are teams out of Minnesota, Iowa, Texas, and Wisconsin that have players on them that don't live within 200 miles of each other. They just drive in and get the minimal amount of plays so they can be on a team together. With all due respect, I also feel like that's lame as hell. So not picking on just Portugal, I feel like it's simple, wherever you have proof of residence, you should have to play in the closest available league to you.
Just my $.02
Mike is not a team master(well, now he is
). There were quite a few missed shots in the finals. Fatigue and being nervous probably had something do to with it.Have a little more fun with it and go as "Watchez Keyser Söze". :thumbup:
obviously, we all know the clear difference between the way americans and europeans play. they are more focused and less into sharking, intimidation and putting moves. skill-wise they are really just decent, but just they come in humble, respectful and looking to play and enjoy themselves, and there's nothing wrong with that worth condemning. it makes playing easier and well...enjoyable
If you aren't being sarcastic (which I don't think you are) - you are nothing but farther from the truth. The year the English Master Team got second, Appleton also played Kirkwood for the singles title. Every ball Kirkwood missed, got hooked on or didn't make a ball on the break, they all shoulted like they were at a soccer match. The same went during the team event as well. Honestly, there was nothing classy about it. The Spanish and Portugal teams I have seen show even less class thru out the years and as stated love to coach each other in their own language so they can't be called for it.
You make some very valid points, however next year after vegas if you want to bring the portugese team to florida you can play team florida and we will see how much money you leave the states with. I think based on your post you are a real nit jerkoff
actually no need to play all of florida just come play team tampa
Man, you didn't go to Vegas or you watched some other matches.
Nobody coached nobody... What happened this year was that some people that were watching told them to call a ref since the guy did not speak english. Also a few guys that spoke spanish (mexican) understood it perfectly.
We were just noisy when we won, and everybody was noisy when they won... Portuguese, Americans, Mexicans, Spanish, etc... Not sure what your point is.
Actually some of us were commenting on some plays during the matches and the Portuguese players themselves told the spectators to shut up.
I know Bino and he is a super nice guy. As you can see is written English is also as bad as mine and I don't think he express himself correctly. I apologize for the guy if he offended anybody.