So get this. (APA League Operator Rant)

XxMerlinxX

Pleased As Punch
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This is going to be a bit of a read, sorry.

At the beginning of this last session, I decided that I would start playing in leagues, and joined BCA and APA. I hopped onto a great APA team and thought we would do well, even going so far as to say that we might make it to Vegas. I mentioned this to some other guys that play in the same room as me and they said, "Don't count on it, the same guys go to Vegas every other year." I kind of brushed it off, thinking that if we won fair and square, there wasn't any way that we'd get screwed out of going.

Well here we are at the end of the session and guess what's happening? This league started off as an in-house league that operated solely out of one room. The reason for that being that it's a great room, with some really quality Kim Steele 9' tables with Simonis cloth. About 3/4 of the way through the session, the league operator's friend starts up some hole in the wall joint out on the highway with a few valleys, so suddenly we're having to play over there as well. I've got nothing against bar boxes really, it's a lot different than a 9' table, but I can adjust. The thing is, these tables are just pure crap. Dead rails abound, the heaviest slow rolling felt I've ever played on, etc. etc. Not only that, but the place is the size of a matchbox and has no ventilation, so my eyes actually start to hurt and water a bit after being in there for a while. If we want to practice on the tables before hand, we have to pay for the tables, unlike everywhere else I've ever played where the tables are open to APA members for the night.

So now we have to play in some crap bar a few nights out of the week. Ok fine, whatever, we'll just make do. Heading into the last two games and suddenly everybody's SL starts going up without us actually having made any really big improvements. We're told that's just how the system works. Ok, that's fine too, we'll just try harder. One team has to forfeit to us and for some reason the LO says we only get half the points that we're supposed to for the forfeit. I still haven't heard the reason for that call. We've ended up on top despite all of this, but going into the "playoffs" and we can no longer play at our home room. The LO said that there is a rule stating that the "playoffs" have to be held on 7' tables. Where, in any of the rules does, it say that??? I called the LO and he said that the room owner no longer wanted any APA play going on there. This is BS, I was sitting next to the room owner when I called the LO, so I knew that this wasn't true. I asked the LO what if I straightened things out with the room owner, could we get things moved back to the original location? He said no. :confused:

I've been told that we'll have to stay active for another session to be eligible to go to Vegas, but something tells me that we'll never actually get that chance. Even if we do win tomorrow, I'm not sure that I want to deal with the headaches of this LO, regardless of who goes where. Oh, and get this, the BCA league that I joined wasn't actually sanctioned, so nobody really got anything and never had a chance of advancing in that league. :mad: Apparently a new BCA sanctioned league is going to be started, and I might join in on that, but all of this leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

If you made it through all of that, thanks, lol. :thumbup:
 
kinda like here in kansas city

thats why i quit apa....here in kansas city .....we have, and im not trying to insult them, women who cant play shape or draw their cue ball...but they are 5's and 6's.... oh one person im talking about is my wife.....shes a shot maker,,,,can make a shot from anywhere......but to draw her ball or go three rails to get shape or go two rail to bust up tied up balls...no she cant do that...
 
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Merlin,

Your LO sounds as though he's ALMOST as big a d*ckhead as the one in my area. Sad.

A LO can make all the difference as to how fun a league can be. It's a shame that one single man/woman can have that much power as to affect the enjoyment of one's pastime.

Maniac
 
You will find faults with the BCA also. Their handicap system is even worse and does not give a true indication of ability.

Ex. All of the players in the division could be rated as 3 or 4 in APA. Eventually someone will win the game and make 8 balls for 10 points and the loser will probably have made 6 or 7 balls. This continues for the whole session. Everyone is ranked as a 8 or 7 and some 9.

Another division has all 6 and 7's and some masters playing. A lot of runout players. One player does a B and R. He has 10 points and the other player may have 0 or 1 if one of the balls were made on a break. Chances are when one player wins the other very seldom get more than 3 balls. Their average is 6 or 7 due to the system. Now the weaker division plays the stronger and the weaker has to give them points. This has happened in our area so don't say it won't. Why is there a weak and strong division? Because that is the way that the LO set it up. If he sees a team is too strong or too weak he moves it.
 
Every dime they can get!

In the APA division I'm in our spring session wasn't even over yet (playoffs for Vegas qualifier) and the L.O. allready started the summer session. And you have too pay for the playoffs. I love too shoot pool in the league but it's like blackmail the way they make you have too shoot the summer session if your going too Vegas. Your APA card is good untill the end of the fall session,doesn't seem fair. Who wants to be obligated to sit In a bar for 4 hours In the summer?
 
You will find faults with the BCA also. Their handicap system is even worse and does not give a true indication of ability.

Ex. All of the players in the division could be rated as 3 or 4 in APA. Eventually someone will win the game and make 8 balls for 10 points and the loser will probably have made 6 or 7 balls. This continues for the whole session. Everyone is ranked as a 8 or 7 and some 9.

Another division has all 6 and 7's and some masters playing. A lot of runout players. One player does a B and R. He has 10 points and the other player may have 0 or 1 if one of the balls were made on a break. Chances are when one player wins the other very seldom get more than 3 balls. Their average is 6 or 7 due to the system. Now the weaker division plays the stronger and the weaker has to give them points. This has happened in our area so don't say it won't. Why is there a weak and strong division? Because that is the way that the LO set it up. If he sees a team is too strong or too weak he moves it.



The BCAPL doesn't have a handicap system as of yet. That must be a local handicap system?....SPF=randyg
 
Have realistic expectations

I have been involved in BCA, APA, USPPA, and several other leagues and i have learned not to expect very much, especially for the handicapped leagues. Any time there is a handicapping system there is room for mistakes and deceit to happen, not always on purpose either. Try to have fun and enjoy the weekly stuff and if by some stroke of luck you get to a higher level tournament, BONUS..

GOOD LUCK TO YOU--maybe start an in-house league at the room where you like to play, but in my experience that presents problems also, because there is not enough players involved to get an accurate rating (the same guys tend to beat up on the same people week after week and they go up for winning % while the other player never moves or goes down.)JUST MY OPINION--HAVE FUN MAYBE GET INTO A LEAGUE WITH NO HANDICAPPING???
 
My questions and some suggestions!!!

Does your room owner pay your weekly dues?
If he does, he should call the LO and demand that your team play playoffs in his house - he has supported you and the LO's league through his contributions, so he should have the ability to have the playoffs there to support his business. If not, then the best team should be able to designate which bar with 7' tables they want to play at - they have earned that right through being best in the division.

If this does not work, then you and the room owner together can call the APA national office, and ask why this is happening - change of venue and rules on table size? The APA National Office may also be able to look into the handicapping discrepancies and how the league is being run by the LO. Maybe the LO is not turning in his paperwork and payments to the APA National Office on time, or maybe he is behind on his work?

Exhaust all of the proper channels before you throw in the towel.

It might be the LO's franchise, but it still has to adhere to NATIONAL RULES of the parent company. Unless local by-laws have been passed, and you can ask your LO for those also - that is where he would need to have his crazy laws about table size and venue changes listed.

Also, do all this and report back here on AZB about what was done, if anything.
The APA only works if all people follow the rules with the best intentions, so do what you can to see if this is actually happening.
I have had nothing but success from contacting the National Office on questions and issues about my local APA franchise.
Sounds like you have a LO that doesn't want to follow the rules, but likes to have all the revenue.
Light a fire underneath him through using the APA National Office, which is your right as a paying member to use.

Hope this helps.

Michael
 
I've said it once and I'll say it again...

The APA is the worst league in the country and is terrible for the game of pool...

That is all I have to say about that....:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
That sounded all too familiar. Iv'e seen the SL go up before money cup and vegas.
As far as shifty LO's......I played in a local bar league and we and beat the LO's team for the title but when we got our trophies (which his company made and profited from) they were tiny paperweights compared to the 4 tiered statues he gave his own team. Oh well...at least we kicked his A$$.:thumbup:
 
Merlin,

Your LO sounds as though he's ALMOST as big a d*ckhead as the one in my area. Sad.

A LO can make all the difference as to how fun a league can be. It's a shame that one single man/woman can have that much power as to affect the enjoyment of one's pastime.

Maniac

i think its part of the application to be a LO. the one around here is even worse!!!!
 
Our LO is a pretty nice guy from what I can tell so far. I guess we are lucky. Aside from the Playoffs having to be held on 7 footers, I was able to find most of the rules on our Leagues website to address the OP's problems. Our rules state $40 must be collected every night even during the playoffs. The players pay for all table time. No free table time. Teams are awarded a point for each match won, plus 2 bonus points for filling our the proper paper work. That is a total of 7 points for 8-Ball if they win 5-0. If a team forfeits, they are awarded 4 points plus 2 bonus points for full proper paperwork during the first half of the season. 2nd half of the season you are awarded 3 points plus 2 bonus. So its not really half, but not as much as if you blanked a team 5-0. THe 9-Ball points are similar, just in the 9-Ball points format.

As far as SL rankings, so far we haven't noticed any odd ranking movement.

Our summer session also just started last week, yet we have our City Championship taking place next weekend. Some of the members on our old team that qualified are no longer on the team or playing elsewhere, but the calendar was set before the season so I guess we can't complain. It's just seems a little odd that there is no break between sessions. It is literally the week after the Division playoffs.

Anyway, 90% of the teams in our league are just in it for fun, so its generally a good fun match and fun night. Nobody really takes it too seriously. Our host bar has the crappiest tables, but it is the same for everyone. I don't drink so I don't play or practice on the bar tables expect for league night. I rather practice in a real pool hall anyway.
 
In my brief experience with the APA it seemed to be a league designed mostly for low to mid level players, mainly just for fun.

If you aren't having fun in a format like that you might want to think about finding something else to do.
 
north kansas city

thats why i quit apa....here in kansas city .....we have, and im not trying to insult them, women who cant play shape or draw their cue ball...but they are 5's and 6's....

Poolfire,
Not sure where you were playing at, but I play in the league up in the northland. Our LO(Greg) is a great guy who is really trying to do good things. We play at Side Pockets on Englewood, and I know he has a few traveling league nights, also. If you want to give it another try, come on up some night, I'm sure he could find a team for you. If not, pm me and maybe we could play sometime.
 
Check out this link

http://www.pool-table-rules.com/pool-resources/PDF/LM4.pdf

The handicap system is explained around pages A6 and A7. Don't think this is local as I don't live in NV.

A local league can play under any rules and format it desires so long as the required number of players and teams are formed and all the required fees and reports are submitted. On page 7 of that manual in your link, the handicapping system is explained as a "model" for a League to use if it desires to play with a handicapping system.

"12. If the league appears to be less than balanced in terms of the distribution of talented players, consider handicapping the
league. You may consider distributing Masters evenly throughout the league to serve as coaches and mentors to other league
players. There is a handicapping model contained in Appendix A of this Operators Manual."
 
APA League Operator are as I understand it FRANCHISES, and are making money hand over fist. Recently I spoke with another league operator in the Valley of the Sun. I questioned how the APA Operator could spend so much monthly on advertising, it appeared to me like $400.00-$500.00/month in the local Pool Rags. The answer I got was the APA contributes to the advertising fund, as so much of the weekly fees go to the APA, or Franchisee. The guy I spoke with also said the APA pays back to the players the smallest percentage of all the leagues in the Valley
 
Straight from the Boss's mouth...Thank you
randyg

No problem Randy. Even though it seems as if sometimes this forum gets into nothing but slamming I am sure most use it to learn something or help others and you have helped many of us.
 
The LO said that there is a rule stating that the "playoffs" have to be held on 7' tables. Where, in any of the rules does, it say that???

It doesn't...that is complete BS.
What if this new bar never came about? What 7 footer were you going to play on? He's making up the rules as he goes.

What would have happened if this new bar had 9 footers also?
 
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