coach

coolcue

coolcue

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How do you get an over zealous coach to back down (off) because he is annoying some of the team players who are doing well on their own and being interrupted just throws their game off. The captain says nothing.

I don't want to create problems here, just harmony. He means well but does not realize he is being over bearing. His approach is "I want you to" instead of a conference with the player as to the best course of action. :rolleyes::(
 
How about just asking him to stand down and wait till after the match to coach the player? As a good coach, he should know what players can take feedback during a match and those who cannot. Also the Captain should pull his head out of the sand and see his players getting rattled.
 
I play in a league around here. If I had that problem, I would let him know it bothered me. If it continued, I would pack my cues up and walk away right in the middle of the game.

I play pool for fun. If I am EVER not having fun, I am done. Doesn't matter if it is practice, league, or gambling.
 
I'd tell him to shut his freaking pie hole before I played chopsticks on his his teeth with the butt of my cue.
 
Straight up face to face is the best approach. I had a coach like that when I first started playing leagues. I let it go for a couple weeks, but I finally had to say something. He said he didn't realize he was that overbearing. He improved as a coach and I learned a valuable lesson as I went on to be a captain/coach of my own teams.

Good luck!
 
coolcue said:
How do you get an over zealous coach to back down (off) because he is annoying some of the team players who are doing well on their own and being interrupted just throws their game off. The captain says nothing.

I don't want to create problems here, just harmony. He means well but does not realize he is being over bearing. His approach is "I want you to" instead of a conference with the player as to the best course of action. :rolleyes::(
Click to expand...

Many years ago one of the girls on my team called me the timeout Nazi. It made me realize that I needed to stand down and let them think. If they need me they will ask for my help. Nowadays I take that approach and one I borrowed from Mark Coats. To lighten the mood I will sometimes ask them if they saw such and such on TV (anything humorous) then I ask them what they are thinking. It helps me see what they are comfortable with...then if my idea might be better I ask them what they think of it. If they like it they shoot it if not they stick with their original plan. Either way it is their choice not mine.
 
I was coaching my son and he asked for a time out for help getting to his 3rd ball. So I told him on the first shot to roll the cue ball about 8 inches and play a stop shot on the 2nd. He said "I don't know if I can control the follow that well" (he knows his limits) But for fun, I yelled "BUT YOU ARE A POOL PLAYER MAN, ADJUST TO THE SITUATION". Everyone there thought I was really yelling at him at the same time we were laughing our asses off. That relaxed him and he ran out.

Another funny timeout moment, call a timeout on your heavy hitter during the lag. That goes over real well :)
 
Make a rule amongst the whole team that no time outs or coaching is allowed unless a player ask for it,if not the truth is the best way and in this case necessary
Peteypooldude
 
Time outs and coaching..... Things that have never been a part of my league experience.

It's just not allowed.

I think it's good to remember the guy thinks he's helping. I think an agreement amongst the team should be put in place that coaching is player initiated.

Part of learning is problem solving, just doing what you're told to do is just going to make a begginer reliant on others for information he should be figuring out himself.
 
Our league allows one time out per game, called by the shooter, and you get one team mate to offer you advice. I had a guy on my team call time out when he was on the 8 ball. He was just about on the 50 yard line, but a pretty easy shot in the side. He asked for my help. I didn't even get out of the chair and said "Cut it in the side you pu$$y". He hasn't asked for me again:D.

I am against the whole timeout rule.
 
supergreenman said:
Time outs and coaching..... Things that have never been a part of my league experience.

It's just not allowed.

I think it's good to remember the guy thinks he's helping. I think an agreement amongst the team should be put in place that coaching is player initiated.
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Hi SGM:

Here's the rub with having only player initiated TO's:

Winning isn't everything, however, sometimes it's real important.

Hypothetical: Your team is in a match that will decide if you make playoffs or you're in a playoff match that if you lose you go home. Your SL3 is hill-hill and is getting ready to make a terrible shot choice that will likely result in a loss. I think that as captain you owe it to the player and, especially, the team, to ask "Do you want to talk about it?"

How a coach handles their times out with their players is of paramount importance. As Newstroke said, inject a little humor or whatever it takes to relax your player. Definitely ask what they had in mind because it's important to know what they were thinking, then offer your take on it, following with what you think is the better alternative - and why. Let this be a teaching moment that in no way comes across like a challenge of their judgement or intellect. Let the player and the team benefit from your experience and knowledge of risk/reward/percentages pool. In my experience, a TO can be one of the most gratifying aspects of team play.

Best,
Brian kc
 
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I have never played in a league where a coach was allowed. All of the league's I have played in any "coaching" was a foul and the opponent was awarded ball in hand.

I totally disagree with coaching. The only time I agree with it is when you are playing a doubles match.

I really think you should leave coaching until after the game.
I remember that it really sucked when I first started to be told every time after the game that I should have done it this way or that way.
More than likely, those who gave me that advice were right.

However, I learn more from my failures that my sucssess. Needless to say I have failed way more than succeeded :grin:

Really, we are just talking about advice from a team member.
Now I just sit back and watch the game and have fun. If I saw someone’s game and thought they should do something different, I would wait probably a couple of minutes after that game to bring up the discussion.
That is unless they brought it up before that.
The ultimate goal is to learn from playing and even watching.
 
Thank you all for your input. I will try to get a balance going that he may not be happy with. If so, shame on him.:thumbup:
 
peteypooldude said:
Make a rule amongst the whole team that no time outs or coaching is allowed unless a player ask for it,if not the truth is the best way and in this case necessary
Peteypooldude
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That doesn't usually work either because they will call the timeout in an impossible situation when the coach can't help them. The time to call a time-out is before they get in that impossible situation, which the coach can see but the player usually cannot.
 
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First and foremost.....a coach must be respected by those he intends to help. If the players view him as a hinderance to play rather than a helpfull presence, then all his words are for naught. If he does not recognize these simple facts then I suspect he is coaching for the sake of his own ego and not for the improvement of his teamates play. We all have met the "know it all" railbirds who armchair quarterback every shot made. Sounds to me like this fellow may be one of those.....Dan
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
Hi SGM:

Here's the rub with having only player initiated TO's:

Winning isn't everything, however, sometimes it's real important.

Hypothetical: Your team is in a match that will decide if you make playoffs or you're in a playoff match that if you lose you go home. Your SL3 is hill-hill and is getting ready to make a terrible shot choice that will likely result in a loss. I think that as captain you owe it to the player and, especially, the team, to ask "Do you want to talk about it?"

How a coach handles their times out with their players is of paramount importance. As Newstroke said, inject a little humor or whatever it takes to relax your player. Definitely ask what they had in mind because it's important to know what they were thinking, then offer your take on it, following with what you think is the better alternative - and why. Let this be a teaching moment that in no way comes across like a challenge of their judgement or intellect. Let the player and the team benefit from your experience and knowledge of risk/reward/percentages pool. In my experience, a TO can be one of the most gratifying aspects of team play.

Best,
Brian kc
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This is spot on. Playing in the APA, if your any good you have a few not so good players so you can play and still stay under the 23 rule. I have had multiple low ranking players get upset when I have called a time out to stop them from making a horrible decision that could cost them the game/match. I tell everyone of my players that they are to play to their fullest and I am there to help when called upon but there might be a time during a match I see something that will help the odds of our team winning and I will call a timeout to help. If thats not ok with you, then I feel like your putting yourself before the team and thats not ok. If they continue to have issues with that thinking I am ok with them joining another team if needed. I never call time outs on any player 5 or above, I let them ask. A lower skill player is that way partly due to poor decisions and for the sake of team success there are times they need help even when they do not realize it.

My way of time outs do vary person to person but always start with "what is your plan here?" I listen to them and give my input. Then I tried to give an alternate approach and ask them which idea they like more. Then we try and make sure the approach they choose is executed.

There are way too many people who get upset over time outs IMO. Good lord, a higher skill player sees something that might help you win a rack. why not listen to what they have to say. Nothing says you have to take the advice. "You disrupting my pace". Are you kidding me, your a 3 who can not run 3 balls in a row, you dont have a pace. Plus it is obvious your at a spot that needs some extra thought so hurrying through might not be the best option.

Might want to keep an open mind and listen to the advice. Now if it is always bad advice then thats when things need to be said.
 
it's quite obvious that APA is a different animal than what I'm used to, I'm of the opinion that coaching should be done outside of league matches.

League matches should be for competition not teaching.

But if that's what APA allows, it's all good for them I guess. It just reaffirms my belief that APA is a beginners league.
 
I know there is a bunch of APA bashing on here but I like it. IMO it is a mix of beginners league and players league. You might not want to run up against some of the better APA players in our league. Those are the people I enjoy playing week in, week out.
 
Having been an APA captain for about 10 years, here's the issue as I see it:

You obviously have players of widely different skill levels on a team. Some can figure things out for themselves and some can't. Some players have the ability to identify a key situation, and some don't. Some players rely on "rhythm" and some don't. Based on that I follow these guidelines:

1) For the more experienced players on my team (there is a 5 soon to be 6, a 6, and myself a 7), I will usually *ask* if they want a timeout if it looks like a key moment.
2) I try to wait until they have decided on a shot before calling time out, because if it looks like they are going to do the right thing I'd rather not waste the time out.
3) For all players, if they are about to do something disastrous, I will step in and call the time out myself. They usually appreciate this after the fact.
4) For the lower skill levels, I try to let them make their own mistakes. They often feel the need to explain to me what they were trying to do. If they take this approach, I might offer them some alternatives they could have done, or if possible, compliment them on a good idea even if they executed poorly. If they just sit down quietly, I might approach them after they have relaxed from playing their match, and try and point out some things to think about in the situation where they went wrong.
5) I try to offer assistance on the sideline when possible (when the opponent is shooting). Often I will see a safety coming up, or I know the guy is gonna miss and can predict the outcome, or I know he is going to scratch. I might tell my teammate "if you get ball in hand start with the 5 ball", or "whatever you do, don't break out his 10 ball over there. Anything else should be ok". It appears to me that my teammates appreciate this guidance.
6) Build coaching relationships that are specific to each player. As a coach, you should hopefully be able to analyze the game and capabilities of each player that you coach. This will allow you to accurately forecast the likelihood of their success with various potential shots and safeties. Also, and just as important, develop a lingo that is meaningful for you both. For example, the way I describe speed is different for each player. What is "medium soft" for one player might need to be called "the softest you can hit it" for another player. In other words, don't use your *own* definitions of speed and other variable things like that. Use the *players'* definitions. This will help a lot with communication, which is the # 1 activity in coaching.
7) Discuss with the whole team before the season starts what their goals are. If the goal is to have fun, then each person's opinion on coaching must be carefully and consistently observed. If the goal is to win, then the coach (or most knowledgeable player) must be the final word for when coaching and time outs should take place. Remember, if you are a player that relies on being in some kind of flow or groove, you need to learn how to get past that if you want to play on a successful team. If you happen to be the best player on the team, then good for you. If not, you have to learn how to pause, take advice, and reset yourself. This I think is a very useful skill generally speaking, team or no team.

Hope this helps,

KMRUNOUT
 
Let each player decide:

If they want time outs called (other than to call their own)

More important - who can call the time out and who does the coaching (doesn't have to be the same person)

In the first example a player could request that only the captain call timeouts and the coach they want (not always the best player) should give the advice.

I have noticed that often a player 3 or more skill levels above a player can't coach down to their level.

A couple of sessions ago I played a team where the captain called 9 timeouts in five racks of 8-Ball. The player was a new to APA female SL 2. He asked her to do things way above her ability. Almost all of them turned out poorly. As a joke I asked our LO if she could change the bylaws to allow him, and only him, to call as many timeouts as he wanted :-)

Know your players. Don't tell a SL 3 to draw the cue ball back if they can't even do a stun shot. I have one lady player who hits every shot a little high and a little right. Deadly accurate but has no shape control. Best coaching is tell her to hit it hard or hit it soft. I adjust kick shot aim locations to compensate for her slight right english. I don't ask her to change the way she hits the cue ball. She is 67 years old and long ago adjusted her aim to the squirt and throw of her off center hit. Change it in the middle of a game? I don't think so.
 
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