English vs. english vs. side spin

[Cameron Smith]

I prefer just using left and right side spin, says exactly what you want to say, no confusion.

Especially when teaching newbies, running english can be a bit confusing.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Especially when teaching newbies, running english can be a bit confusing.

Yes, but they also need to know what other people may call it, even if you don't like to call it that way. The way I usually handle it is to say something like "On this shot you need running english, which in this case is left side spin."

 

[dr_dave]

Yes, but they also need to know what other people may call it, even if you don't like to call it that way. The way I usually handle it is to say something like "On this shot you need running english, which in this case is left side spin."

Don't you hate it when "english" is flagged as a spelling error by most software?

Regards,
Dave

PS: Don't forget to tell your students and readers to also not put too much "American" on the ball.

 

[Blackball75]

I was raised with side, topspin, and screw-back. Plus stun and drag shots.

I like left-hand side, right-hand side, running side, and check side.

 

[Roger Long]

Yes, but they also need to know what other people may call it, even if you don't like to call it that way. The way I usually handle it is to say something like "On this shot you need running english, which in this case is left side spin."

I've learned so much from reading your articles over the years Bob that I can't remember if this is another thing I've picked up from you. What you just said here is exactly the way I teach it to my students (and for the same reason). There is even one shot where I tell the student, "You can call this either running English or inside English, your choice, as long as you understand that the shot calls for high side spin in the direction you want the cue ball to travel around the table."

Ultimately, the important thing is that the correct information gets communicated, whether it be by one way, or another.

Roger

 

[JoeyA]

Don't you hate it when "english" is flagged as a spelling error by most software?

Regards,
Dave

PS: Don't forget to tell your students and readers to also not put too much "American" on the ball.

Just add "english" to your software dictionary and add Ignore Rule for the grammar error it pops up and from then on you shouldn't have to put up with your software correcting you.

 

[peteypooldude]

Dr Dave
I think I have discovered one of your pet peas LOL :smile::smile:

 

[dr_dave]

Don't you hate it when "english" is flagged as a spelling error by most software?

Regards,
Dave

PS: Don't forget to tell your students and readers to also not put too much "American" on the ball.

Just add "english" to your software dictionary and add Ignore Rule for the grammar error it pops up and from then on you shouldn't have to put up with your software correcting you.

Actually, I kind of like the red squiggly that appears under "english" in my software. I was sort of making a point that the software doesn't like it for a reason. Meriam-Webster (the bible of the American English language) does recommend "English" when referring to side spin, and that's what I plan to continue to use (right English, left English, running English, natural English, reverse English, outside English, inside English, top-right English, etc.). In other words, I think the software is right (correct), so I don't want to change it. Although, I must admit that "english" (there's that red squiggly again) seems to make more sense grammatically; however, the English language doesn't always follow (not topspin) logical rules (... and some people think pool rules are difficult to follow).

Regards,
Dave (the guy who doesn't like it when people use too much English or too much American).

 

[dr_dave]

Dr Dave
I think I have discovered one of your pet peas LOL :smile::smile:

Actually, Tom Ross and I had a huge debate about this (English vs. english) during our VEPS project. Because I was doing the video editing, I had the final say ... but Tom didn't like it very much. He has lots of pet peeves about grammar. He used lots of sailor English when he saw all of the English on the screen (just kidding).

Uuuhhhmmm ... peas!!!!

Regards,
Dave

 

[Cuebuddy]

Actually, Tom Ross and I had a huge debate about this (English vs. english) during our VEPS project. Because I was doing the video editing, I had the final say ... but Tom didn't like it very much. He has lots of pet peeves about grammar. He used lots of sailor English when he saw all of the English on the screen (just kidding).

Uuuhhhmmm ... peas!!!!

Regards,
Dave

Just so you dr_dave there is such a thing:smile:.

 

[dr_dave]

Just so you dr_dave there is such a thing:smile:.

That pea in front looks like it is into S&M.

 

[dr_dave]

There often seems to be debate about usage of the terms "English" vs. "english" vs. "side spin." Which phrase do you prefer?

It looks like "English" has gained a little in the poll, but "english" still got many more votes. Honestly, that surprises me since "English" has been the accepted standard for so long, and it is what is recommended by Meriam-Webster.

... but life is full of surprises.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Tom Ross]

Whenever the language offers a distinction we should consider it carefully and then work to preserve it in those cases where the word itself provides clarification. Imagine a tournament story about Allison Fisher and her compatriots where they are referred to collectively as English. Then, if in the description of a certain shot, we read that it was played with maximum english, no confusion at all. I suspect that it turns up in print with an upper-case "E" so often merely because spell checkers change it automatically and apparently some editors believe that Bill Gates is also an English grammar expert.

There are many cases of proper nouns becoming common nouns. I would gladly drink scotch from china but probably wouldn't hurry to drink scotch from China.

Or as an alternative I might find a properly situated bar in Brooklyn from where I could gaze at the Manhattan skyline while sipping manhattans.

I would never write body English unless the person were using sign language.

 

[Roger Long]

Right arm, Tom! Welcome to the boreds!

Roger

 

[Roger Long]

Right arm, Tom! Welcome to the boreds!

Roger

Oops, I meant to say over-boreds. :withstupid:

Roger

 

[dr_dave]

Whenever the language offers a distinction we should consider it carefully and then work to preserve it in those cases where the word itself provides clarification. Imagine a tournament story about Allison Fisher and her compatriots where they are referred to collectively as English. Then, if in the description of a certain shot, we read that it was played with maximum english, no confusion at all. I suspect that it turns up in print with an upper-case "E" so often merely because spell checkers change it automatically and apparently some editors believe that Bill Gates is also an English grammar expert.

There are many cases of proper nouns becoming common nouns. I would gladly drink scotch from china but probably wouldn't hurry to drink scotch from China.

Or as an alternative I might find a properly situated bar in Brooklyn from where I could gaze at the Manhattan skyline while sipping manhattans.

I would never write body English unless the person were using sign language.

How dare you show up here to fight our little "battle?"

Just kidding. I'm glad you decided to share your eloquent opinion. :thumbup:

However, I should warn you that AZB isn't always a friendly place; although, it usually is. The one undeniable truth is that it is amazingly easy to spend far too much time here.

I will probably continue to not use too much English or too much American (I guess that should be "american"); although, I think I'm close to being convinced that maybe "english" isn't so bad, even though Meriam-Websters and all of my software checkers don't like it.

I wonder if Bill Gates likes drinking Scotch from China?

Regards,
Dave

 

[Tom Ross]

How dare you show up here to fight our little "battle?"

Just kidding. I'm glad you decided to share your eloquent opinion. :thumbup:

However, I should warn you that AZB isn't always a friendly place; although, it usually is. The one undeniable truth is that it is amazingly easy to spend far too much time here.

I will probably continue to not use too much English or too much American (I guess that should be "american"); although, I think I'm close to being convinced that maybe "english" isn't so bad, even though Meriam-Websters and all of my software checkers don't like it.

I wonder if Bill Gates likes drinking Scotch from China?

Regards,
Dave

That's one thing that Mr. Gates will never have to do.

 

[RunoutKing]

I like to keep it simple. Anytime I hit the cue ball anywhere other than center ball, I call it English. "E" or "e" doesn't really matter to me, I just call it english.

 

[pt109]

english

Tom Ross makes a compelling case for lower case 'english'.
And i don't expect main stream dictionaries to recognize all jargon.
In general billiard discussions i prefer the term 'english'-it's poetic.

But i'm surprised that Hu's mention of the clock system didn't get more
response.It's much more precise and has served carom players and fighter
pilots well.Telling someone to hit the cueball at 4:30 is much better than
saying 'low right'.

However,specifying how FAR from center is destined to remain vague.
I use terms like 'hair off center','half tip' or 'go to the miscue zone'.
As you move from center ball ,a different part of the tip becomes the
contact point.The diameter and the shape of the tip become factors.
Also the flexibilty of the shaft and the player's stroke can determine
how much spin you get.
When i hit 6:00,whitey comes back but not as far as when Nevel hits it.

 

[9bizzle]

My proper grammar is no doubt a bit rusty, but I believe that lower-case english is correct. We speak English, a noun, yet we apply english, an action or verb.

Or in my case, we overcut and drive the ball into the rail.

(Re-reading this, I am convinced that I am the last person who should be commenting on grammar. )

I agree with the upper/lower case distinction between our use of the word, but I don't believe english used on a cue ball is a verb. You apply english to a ball...you don't english a ball.