Pool's Most Fabulous Game

[Paul Schofield]

Notice that none of the above has anything to do with how the game is played. To me that's a secondary consideration.

Jay-I certainly would like to know your thoughts are on this matter. I believe that if the game was right, all the efforts to promote would be easier and more fruitful. The very fact that after all these years, we still do not have a universal game is evidence of some long standing underlying fault that has plagued pool and will continue to do so. Where pool's shortcomings are concerned, I point my finger squarely at the game itself.

Just imagine: Where would other sports be if the method of play floundered like pool has? Where would pool be if the entirety of the pool playing world decided on one favorite method of play.

I think it is our job, the people in the business, to continue to persue the "Holy Grail". The playing public will let us know when it has been found. We don't get to decide that.

I know that you strongly believe that our sport is fine the way it is. I think we should be looking to do better. Our beloved game could be even more successful than it already is.

Hats off to Varner and Archer for their effors.

 

[Tom In Cincy]

The BIGGEST single reason pool is not included in the mainstream of Professional sports in the USA is this.

Pool cannot compete with other Professional sports.

In 1910, one hundred years ago, pool could not compete with the attendance figures of Major league base ball. 5 Million people attended DAY games in reported figures from the ball parks of the time.

In the 30s and again in the late 50s.. the emergence of the NFL, PGA and NBA offered more to potential sponsors than pool could ever dream of.

In a single week of each of those 3 sports alone. More spectators attended live events than pool did in a collection of and 10 years of the pool tournaments.

How does pool compete with that?

Now to the huge void in pool today. Where a change in today's popular game might increase pool's allure by the younger players.

The APA accounts for 250,000 players playing a week. There are another leagues account for approximately another 250,000 players.

Unfortunately these league members favor BARS and not Pool Rooms on average. The last figures I read from Pool and Billiard Magazine, were there were less than 3400 pool rooms in the USA. There are more than 3000 pool rooms in Korea and there are at least 6 Billiard Academies.

What pool needs is to get more players into the pool rooms. More pool room leagues and more pool room tournaments.

You walk into a bowling alley and all you see is a wall full of league standings. You walk into a pool room and all you see is empty tables.

Pool needs a new game and new rules and a leader. Unfortunately we don't have any of the 3.

No conflict rules may be popular to some players, but IMO it is not what pool needs.

 

[Tom In Cincy]

One more little thing.. although pocket billiards is popular in a lot of other countries, they are fortunate not to have the NFL, MLB, PGA, NBA, NHL and NASCAR to compete with for TV commercial time or the fans attention.

In the Philippines, amateur basket ball is the most popular game and then comes pocket billiards.

Pool would probably be more popular in Europe if it weren't for the European Basket ball leagues and of course Soccer.

And there is a lot more interest because of the availability of a wager on the outcome of a televised match. Gambling is readily more available to the viewers in Europe.

 

[Paul Schofield]

The BIGGEST single reason pool is not included in the mainstream of Professional sports in the USA is this.

Pool cannot compete with other Professional sports.

In 1910, one hundred years ago, pool could not compete with the attendance figures of Major league base ball. 5 Million people attended DAY games in reported figures from the ball parks of the time.

In the 30s and again in the late 50s.. the emergence of the NFL, PGA and NBA offered more to potential sponsors than pool could ever dream of.

In a single week of each of those 3 sports alone. More spectators attended live events than pool did in a collection of and 10 years of the pool tournaments.

How does pool compete with that?

Now to the huge void in pool today. Where a change in today's popular game might increase pool's allure by the younger players.

The APA accounts for 250,000 players playing a week. There are another leagues account for approximately another 250,000 players.

Unfortunately these league members favor BARS and not Pool Rooms on average. The last figures I read from Pool and Billiard Magazine, were there were less than 3400 pool rooms in the USA. There are more than 3000 pool rooms in Korea and there are at least 6 Billiard Academies.

What pool needs is to get more players into the pool rooms. More pool room leagues and more pool room tournaments.

You walk into a bowling alley and all you see is a wall full of league standings. You walk into a pool room and all you see is empty tables.

Pool needs a new game and new rules and a leader. Unfortunately we don't have any of the 3.

No conflict rules may be popular to some players, but IMO it is not what pool needs.

Tom...Some well thought out comments. I view all of your valid points as symptoms to a problem that you identify "Pool needs a new game and new rules" We agree here.

 

[Black-Balled]

... Fire it up!

Now THAT is something I can get behind!!

 

[duckie]

So, you get new games and new rules, who's gonna play em?

If there is not interest now in playing the current games, I doublt if any new games/rules will do much.

Pool needs more POSITIVE exposure. Pool needs more kids, more family's to play than anything.

In Texas, it was very, very , very hard to find a place i would consider taking my kids. Most, not all, "pool" rooms were bars that had pool tables.

Pool needs to to offered as a after school activity and at some levels as a elective like bowling. There needs to be school/city pool teams like there are for the other sports.

Get the kids into pool is the only thing that gonna work long term.

Oh, yeah, be careful on what game you think is the primo game, cause there may just be a few that think one pockets sucks, but just are saying anything.

Plus, saying that one pocket pool most fabulous game is part of the problem with pool. There is no one game that is the best. What makes a type of game the best is the personal prefrence.

 

[duckie]

So, you get new games and new rules, who's gonna play em?

If there is not interest now in playing the current games, I doublt if any new games/rules will do much.

Pool needs more POSITIVE exposure. Pool needs more kids, more family's to play than anything.

In Texas, it was very, very , very hard to find a place i would consider taking my kids. Most, not all, "pool" rooms were bars that had pool tables.

Pool needs to to offered as a after school activity and at some levels as a elective like bowling. There needs to be school/city pool teams like there are for the other sports.

Get the kids into pool is the only thing that gonna work long term.

Oh, yeah, be careful on what game you think is the primo game, cause there may just be a few that think one pockets sucks, but just are saying anything.

Plus, saying that one pocket pool most fabulous game is part of the problem with pool. There is no one game that is the best. What makes a type of game the best is the personal prefrence.

Cause 14.1 is the primo game for people that like to make shots and not play safes all day long.

 

[Poolfiend]

This is pretty off topic but the reason I love one-pocket is the need for the ability to shift gears and assess your current ability.

In 9 ball once you get in stroke it is easy to assess your ability and determine your chances of making a shot versus the safe option. In onepocket you really have to switch from a defensive mind set once the balls open up in order to make you opponent pay for their mistake. This is the most challenging part of the game for me.

Shots I would consider myself 80-90% at making if I had been playing 9 ball for an hour are reduced to 40% if I've been playing defensive one pocket.

Just my two cents on the game.

 

[3andstop]

I understand your points, and I've often wondered what it would be like, in a straight pool game, should player "A" step up to the table after the opening break and run the game out in one inning, that the game's rules demanded player "B" now has the opportunity to match this feat by having player "A" execute an opening break and allow player "B" his or her chance at a one inning run out before a winner is announce.

My game preferences are straight pool and one pocket running nearly dead even. Depending on my mood on a given day, the nod could go to one pocket, for just the reason you mention.

A distant second (I suppose, if I had to continue to choose) would have to be 8 ball, and again very much distant to even 8 ball would be 9 and 10 ball, two games I actually dislike.

 

[Paul Schofield]

Oh, yeah, be careful on what game you think is the primo game, cause there may just be a few that think one pockets sucks, but just are saying anything.

Plus, saying that one pocket pool most fabulous game is part of the problem with pool. There is no one game that is the best. What makes a type of game the best is the personal prefrence.

We are in agreement and you are making my point for me. What would make the best game would be if over time, a game developed whereby a vast majority of the pool playing community found it to be the best game. Golf and bowling have one game that everyone likes. We need the same. No committes, tournament directors, or organizations decide what that game is going to be. People that play pool decide.

 

[3andstop]

No committes, tournament directors, or organizations decide what that game is going to be. People that play pool decide.

Not that I believe pool can ever be as one dimensional as you envision, but, regardless, how does anyone know what the people like if there isn't some type of organized hierarchy to compile the information?

 

[scrappy]

oops tried to delete...

 

[scrappy]

Thank you Paul. What I think we are losing is the modern day poolroom. Many factors are involved, including a severe recession and a major real estate slump. Although low rents could spark some renewed interest in opening a room. Regardless, pool remains one of the most popular sports in America and the world. In this country, pool continues to be played in tens of thousands of bars and bar leagues EVERYWHERE! It is THE game of choice in most bars and taverns. Latest pools indicate over 35 million players in the USA per year, with fully 25% of them stating it is their favorite hobby. That's over ten million regular players! How many homes do you think have pool tables in them? I would suggest a lot more than have pong pong tables, maybe double or triple the number.

The numbers are higher in Asia and growing by leaps and bounds in China. So the sport of pool is not going away anytime soon. I will disagree with you on one point. I think a true professional tour with major prize money would attract more young people to the sport. If a young kid sees someone winning a million dollars on TV playing pool (or even 100K), he may want to pick up a cue and learn the game. It works for golf and tennis pretty well. Another neglected area (shame on the BCA for their lack of leadership in this area), has been the introduction of pool as a high school sport. It's a natural! Very little cost for equipment (no uniforms required!), small area needed (no large playing fields) and kids naturally take to pool. In the few areas this has been tried (Sacramento, Dallas, Pennsylvania) it has gone over well.

The powers that be at the BCA got on this kick to put pool in the Olympics over twenty years ago. And where are they now? No where, that's where. If they had been working with interscholastic school sports programs for the last twenty years, we might have a few million more young players enjoying the game today. And more pool rooms too! Pretty short sighted of these manufacturers of billiard equipment and not so good for their bottom line either.

Notice that none of the above has anything to do with how the game is played. To me that's a secondary consideration.

Good post :thumbup:

 

[LC3]

I am going to add two more symptoms to the above list. 1) Golf and bowling make life long participants out of a large percentage of their players yet over and over, we lose ours. I have been in business 32 years and have watched this phenomenon played out over and over.

Have people told you that they were giving up pool specifically because of the lack of back-and-forth play? I'd think most people get hooked on pool well before they reach that level of play. By the time they reach that level, they've probably become accustomed to long runs being part of the game; making their own high runs is something to which they aspire. They'd also know that there are other pool games that might suit them better.

2) After 150 years, we don't even have a universal game or even a universal set of rules. Not only do we not have the table size defined, we don't even know what a pocket is supposed to be. Pool has no soul.

Does pool need a "universal" game? It has eight ball and nine ball, which are immensely popular with players and easily understood by the casual observer. 14.1, IP, and banks aren't as popular, but having these specialist or connoisseur games is a testament to the game's depth and history.

Lack of regulation doesn't equal lack of soul. Pool has plenty of soul, part of which is its diversity.

 

[Paul Schofield]

Have people told you that they were giving up pool specifically because of the lack of back-and-forth play?

Thanks for your input. That's not really how it works. People just quit. They do not give a reason. My experience is that people quit and do not even know why. They just lose interest for reasons that we in the business are left to figure out.

My points may be misunderstood. I am NOT saying that there should be regulation that moves any one game forward. What I am saying is that we need a phenomenon to happen where all players of all abilities become captivated by one favored game. No organization gets to decide that.

Respecfully, I stand by my comment "Pool has no soul." Soul and diversity are kind of opposite.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

1P is a fabulous game, but really only to those that are experienced pool players that understand the nuances of the game and appreciate the wide skill set required to play it well. It never has been attractive to the newcomer/beginner (which is what we are talking about here) because the value of each player being able to participate more is trumped by the fact that much of those turns at the table do not involve even trying to pocket a ball. That's not what beginners and new players are interested in. They want to pocket balls. I think even die-hard 1P aficionados would agree that it is not a game that would be attractive to beginning players.

I'm also not convinced that this issue of lopsided participation is really the problem with pool bringing in new players that will stay with the game. This really only occurs when the two players are of significantly different skill levels. But when new to the game I didn't come in to the pool hall to match up with the best player in the room because you are right, that was no fun for me. But that was not a problem - I simply matched up with players closer to my skill level. We both got plenty of turns at the table (per rack, lol) and had a blast.

I also don't agree with the need for a universal game. At least not in regard to what you are talking about Paul, the issue of bringing new players into the sport and not about increasing the mass appeal of the pro game. I think the fact that there are many different games to enjoy is one of the great appeals of pool. Heck, poker has done very well in recent years and there are practically an unlimited number of different poker games that people play. Walk into any card club in California and you will find tables dealing Omaha, 5 Draw, Hold Em, and 7 Stud at a minimum. And when played in home "dealer's choice" games, OMG where do I start with some of the wild variations of poker that are dealt in home games? People love the variety. Frankly, I think all the different games available in pool would generally be good for the room owner because when people get bored with one game rather than turning in the balls they may just start playing a different game and stay at the tables longer.

As far as the success of the pro game on TV, poker has settled on Hold Em and perhaps to a small extent it has helped promote a following for watching pro poker on TV but I think that is only a small part of it-the "hole card camera" has probably had more impact on poker's television success. And in any event pool has also pretty much always had a universal game on the professional level. For years it was straight pool and then 9 Ball for decades after that. It is only very recently that the pro game seems fractured between two games (9 Ball and 10 Ball).

I'm more of the school of thought that there are no easy answers to this question. I think the problem is somewhat inherent to pool by its very nature. And that is that it is a difficult game and can be frustrating to the beginner. So only people that A) Just fall in love with it in spite of their limited talents or B) show an immediate ability for the game, will stay with it and take it up as a regular activity. Really, if you take out the two bumps in popularity provided by The Hustler and COM, hasn't pool been just holding its own at best for at least the last 50+ years?

 

[duckie]

Thanks for your input. That's not really how it works. People just quit. They do not give a reason. My experience is that people quit and do not even know why. They just lose interest for reasons that we in the business are left to figure out.

My points may be misunderstood. I am NOT saying that there should be regulation that moves any one game forward. What I am saying is that we need a phenomenon to happen where all players of all abilities become captivated by one favored game. No organization gets to decide that.

Respectfully, I stand by my comment "Pool has no soul." Soul and diversity are kind of opposites.

If people quit playing, then they weren't pool players to begin with. One either gets it or not. Its not the game thats the problem. Some find that its not as easy as it looks.

Having a game that all players are capivated by, ain't gonna happen. I don't want to get into the pros and cons of the games, cause they all have strengths and weakness. I'm not a big player of one pocket, but I do at times to improve my safety play. Same with 9 ball, I play it at times cause your shots selection is limited based on the rules of the game, so it kinda forces me to do shots I would not do, say in 14.1. One should have their favorite game, for sure, but not to play any of the other games is a mistake. Like life, you need variety to grow and improve.

Where do the young kids learn to play pool? Thats the future of pool. Not gambling, not one type of game that is the money game, not high dollars tourneys.

Nascar got where it is by going after the kids and the family to grow the sport.

Until pool gets into the school or cities after hour programs, pool will never grow. How do you get soul in a game? You don't, the soul comes from the people playing it not the game being played.

For diversity,wouldn't a father/mother and son/daughter be a cool tourney? How bout a top pro tourny where the men and women can play together. How bout seeing some young gun giving some older player grief.

Pool is one the the few sports that is a equal sport. By that I mean, being strong, big, tall,fast, smart, rich, poor and your age doesn't matter. Well, maybe age after a certain point.

BCA is doing a good thing with the junior program. Thats a good start. Do any of you know any of the young up and coming players. All I hear about are the current top players or whos gambling and not paying up.

Anyway, FWIW

 

[jay helfert]

If people quit playing, then they weren't pool players to begin with. One either gets it or not. Its not the game thats the problem. Some find that its not as easy as it looks.

Having a game that all players are capivated by, ain't gonna happen. I don't want to get into the pros and cons of the games, cause they all have strengths and weakness. I'm not a big player of one pocket, but I do at times to improve my safety play. Same with 9 ball, I play it at times cause your shots selection is limited based on the rules of the game, so it kinda forces me to do shots I would not do, say in 14.1. One should have their favorite game, for sure, but not to play any of the other games is a mistake. Like life, you need variety to grow and improve.

Where do the young kids learn to play pool? Thats the future of pool. Not gambling, not one type of game that is the money game, not high dollars tourneys.

Nascar got where it is by going after the kids and the family to grow the sport.

Until pool gets into the school or cities after hour programs, pool will never grow. How do you get soul in a game? You don't, the soul comes from the people playing it not the game being played.

For diversity,wouldn't a father/mother and son/daughter be a cool tourney? How bout a top pro tourny where the men and women can play together. How bout seeing some young gun giving some older player grief.

Pool is one the the few sports that is a equal sport. By that I mean, being strong, big, tall,fast, smart, rich, poor and your age doesn't matter. Well, maybe age after a certain point.

BCA is doing a good thing with the junior program. Thats a good start. Do any of you know any of the young up and coming players. All I hear about are the current top players or whos gambling and not paying up.

Anyway, FWIW

I agree. High School pool teams is the ticket. So far the BCA has dropped the ball on this one. Rising young stars include Brendan Crockett and Landon Shuffett.

 

[Mr. Bond]

I agree with pretty much everything that has been said about getting the kids involved. That is the key to a prosperous future. And I further contend that if a good sized portion of youth were fully committed to a particular game, the level of play would spike dramatically.

Furthermore, at a professional level, the industry needs one definatively "major" league or association to step up and run the show.
And that, my friend, is all about marketing, not the games themselves.

The games speak for themselves, no need to change much there. Its all about the promotion, the people and the prizes. Same as it ever was, which is pretty simple really: Put a big enough prize or title out there, and suddenly scores of champions will emerge from all corners of the earth.

The "ultimate prize", title or payout will ensure that "its worth it" to the people who spend so much money, time and effort on practicing and training.
In other words, they should be able to make a career out of it, instead of eeking out a living and squeezing in tournaments on the side.

 

[LC3]

Thanks for your input. That's not really how it works. People just quit. They do not give a reason. My experience is that people quit and do not even know why. They just lose interest for reasons that we in the business are left to figure out.

It was partially intended as a rhetorical question, because I imagine most people just stop showing up. I asked because you seemed to be implying that the loss of players is at least partly due to the lack of back-and-forth play. Unless people have expressed that to you, we have no idea.

My points may be misunderstood. I am NOT saying that there should be regulation that moves any one game forward. What I am saying is that we need a phenomenon to happen where all players of all abilities become captivated by one favored game. No organization gets to decide that.

Has it already evolved on a regional basis? I understand that some regions are heavy into banks, others 1P, etc. Swaying these regions toward a favored game would most probably require an organization.

Respecfully, I stand by my comment "Pool has no soul." Soul and diversity are kind of opposite.

Soul in this instance is subject to interpretation, so we should probably step away from that word.