My Take On Aiming Systems

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
Almost everyone I’ve seen on video demonstrating cte and other aiming systems are either pro players or good players that look (to me) that they are moving the tip of the cue at the last minute. I would like to see some of these systems shot with a robot shooting the same shot slow, medium, and hard on a slow, and fast table. Most of the shots I’ve seen are shots any good C player can make a high percentage of the time. Show me long cut shots…10 in a row unedited. Show me a well known weak C player LIVE after he/she gets a day or so of the aiming system training and then shoots like a “B” player.

Any of these aiming systems are just to give you a contact point to aim at. The problem with most is they can’t hit the contact point half the time. Even after hitting the contact point it’s still feel on the speed and spin (if any) and there is NO system for that, just like you can’t buy a stroke. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
Almost everyone I’ve seen on video demonstrating cte and other aiming systems are either pro players or good players that look (to me) that they are moving the tip of the cue at the last minute. I would like to see some of these systems shot with a robot shooting the same shot slow, medium, and hard on a slow, and fast table. Most of the shots I’ve seen are shots any good C player can make a high percentage of the time. Show me long cut shots…10 in a row unedited. Show me a well known weak C player LIVE after he/she gets a day or so of the aiming system training and then shoots like a “B” player.

Any of these aiming systems are just to give you a contact point to aim at. The problem with most is they can’t hit the contact point half the time. Even after hitting the contact point it’s still feel on the speed and spin (if any) and there is NO system for that, just like you can’t buy a stroke. Johnnyt
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Aiming systems are aiming systems. We all use one, whether we want to admit it or not.

There are more poor C players and under than there are good C+,B & A players.

I think different aiming systems can help different players. We're not all built alike, nor do we all have the same training methods. An aiming system is a good thing, not a bad thing. An aiming system is not the only thing you need to pocket balls which you already duly noted. When you get to the feel stage, some call it the minute adjustment stage. OK, that's what I call it.

Every aiming system I have ever used has some merit, even if it's only learning it for the sake of learning but I think most aiming systems may offer something needed for a specific player at a particular point in their development.

I've just started with a hip problem and it affects everything. Never had one before but it hurts. :mad::grin:
 
I do not care if you are a A, B, C, or D Player. IMHO EVERYONE uses a System to Aim, or Figure out the Shot. JMHO!
 
Here we go again, hang on folks its going too be a bumpy ride.
 
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JoeyA said:
Aiming systems are aiming systems. We all use one, whether we want to admit it or not.
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Agreed.

JoeyA said:
An aiming system is a good thing, not a bad thing. An aiming system is not the only thing you need to pocket balls which you already duly noted. When you get to the feel stage, some call it the minute adjustment stage. OK, that's what I call it.
Click to expand...
Well stated. "Aiming systems" have many potential benefits for many people.

Regards,
Dave
 
Because it doesn't matter if you know where to aim, if you can't line your cue up to that line of aim the ball isn't going in the pocket.
 
I wonder what the past great billiard players said when the diamond system was first brought out of the gate? No one has to use an aiming system, but if you do it is not cheating and it is your choice. Some like them and some do not. That is all there is.
 
Has anyone ever talked about pocket speed? Of course English is a hugh part of pocketing balls or not. There are so many things to consider before you pull the trigger. I have a friend that plays golf got pretty good,then he started taking lessons got even better. Then he started buying tapes an books sound familiar. It toke a few weeks an he lost his game. Too much going on in the head. So he got back to a few lessons an bingo got back. Just trying to say keep it simple. :smile:
 
How we aim is perspective from one player to the next. Some of us come by our aiming systems naturally; some study to learn to aim in a way that might help them. If they're studying the system that ultimately works best for them, they will do better, when finished. If not, they may or may not do better, depending on how well they were able to understand what they were studying and whether they continue to apply their new knowledge.
 
I'm pretty sure I agree

Johnnyt said:
Almost everyone I’ve seen on video demonstrating cte and other aiming systems are either pro players or good players that look (to me) that they are moving the tip of the cue at the last minute. I would like to see some of these systems shot with a robot shooting the same shot slow, medium, and hard on a slow, and fast table. Most of the shots I’ve seen are shots any good C player can make a high percentage of the time. Show me long cut shots…10 in a row unedited. Show me a well known weak C player LIVE after he/she gets a day or so of the aiming system training and then shoots like a “B” player.

Any of these aiming systems are just to give you a contact point to aim at. The problem with most is they can’t hit the contact point half the time. Even after hitting the contact point it’s still feel on the speed and spin (if any) and there is NO system for that, just like you can’t buy a stroke. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

Johnny,

I think what you and I are seeing is that the players demonstrating these systems don't need them for the shots. If they walk straight up to the shot they will take aim and pocket the ball. If they come from an angle, shake it to the right, shake it to the left, shake it all around, pivot right, pivot left, ultimately they are going to pivot to the spot they knew was the right place to be to begin with and fire the ball in the hole. I can't tell if any of the method had any real purpose or not.

I used to use the magic digit aiming system to annoy friends that were lording it over their girlfriends a bit too much on the pool table. I'd put my finger where the middle of the cue ball needed to hit and tell the girls to do their best to hit my finger with the cue ball totally ignoring the balls and pockets. The "system" worked amazingly well. To really believe in one of these constructed systems from fixed aim or alignment points I think it needs to work like the magic digit system, that is even for people that don't know how to do anything but stroke a stick.

Hu
 
If you don't have a repeatable straight stroke, and cannot consistently deliver the cue ball accurately, aiming systems will mean very little. If I can't hit the mark (no matter what system I am are using to determine the "mark"), my ability to pocket balls will not increase dramatically.
Getting into an aiming system before getting the ability to accurately deliver the cue ball is like putting the cart before the horse IMHO. Usually if I miss a shot it is because I didn't deliver the cue ball to my target accurately, not due to my ability to aim correctly.
The best help I ever recieved was getting the glitches out of my stroke, which greatly improved my ability to accurately deliver the cue ball to the target.
 
onepocketron said:
If you don't have a repeatable straight stroke, and cannot consistently deliver the cue ball accurately, aiming systems will mean very little. If I can't hit the mark (no matter what system I am are using to determine the "mark"), my ability to pocket balls will not increase dramatically.
Getting into an aiming system before getting the ability to accurately deliver the cue ball is like putting the cart before the horse IMHO. Usually if I miss a shot it is because I didn't deliver the cue ball to my target accurately, not due to my ability to aim correctly.
The best help I ever recieved was getting the glitches out of my stroke, which greatly improved my ability to accurately deliver the cue ball to the target.
Click to expand...

I agree and couldn't have said it better. Johnnyt
 
JoeyA said:
Aiming systems are aiming systems. We all use one, whether we want to admit it or not.

There are more poor C players and under than there are good C+,B & A players.

I think different aiming systems can help different players. We're not all built alike, nor do we all have the same training methods. An aiming system is a good thing, not a bad thing. An aiming system is not the only thing you need to pocket balls which you already duly noted. When you get to the feel stage, some call it the minute adjustment stage. OK, that's what I call it.

Every aiming system I have ever used has some merit, even if it's only learning it for the sake of learning but I think most aiming systems may offer something needed for a specific player at a particular point in their development.

I've just started with a hip problem and it affects everything. Never had one before but it hurts. :mad::grin:
Click to expand...


Well, you're right about one thing, an aiming system could help some players. The ones who can't walk and chew bubblegum at the same time.
 
Johnnyt said:
Almost everyone I’ve seen on video demonstrating cte and other aiming systems are either pro players or good players that look (to me) that they are moving the tip of the cue at the last minute. I would like to see some of these systems shot with a robot shooting the same shot slow, medium, and hard on a slow, and fast table. Most of the shots I’ve seen are shots any good C player can make a high percentage of the time. Show me long cut shots…10 in a row unedited. Show me a well known weak C player LIVE after he/she gets a day or so of the aiming system training and then shoots like a “B” player.

Any of these aiming systems are just to give you a contact point to aim at. The problem with most is they can’t hit the contact point half the time. Even after hitting the contact point it’s still feel on the speed and spin (if any) and there is NO system for that, just like you can’t buy a stroke. Johnnyt
Click to expand...


I would like to see a video of one of these guys -- that are on every CTE thread claiming how great and exact and perfect and wonderful it is (you knows who you is) -- shoot off 30 or 40 shots reasonably difficult shots without a miss. I mean, if CTE is soooo great and exact and perfect and wonderful and all, you shouldn't miss, right?

Lou Figueroa
then I'd like to see them
shoot all the same shots
with position :-)
 
Post up a diagram.
Im willing to try,i think i can maybe make 30,40 maybe 100 in a roll.
Who knows!


(I would like to see a video of one of these guys -- that are on every CTE thread claiming how great and exact and perfect and wonderful it is (you knows who you is) -- shoot off 30 or 40 shots reasonably difficult shots without a miss. I mean, if CTE is soooo great and exact and perfect and wonderful and all, you shouldn't miss, right?)

Lou Figueroa
then I'd like to see them
shoot all the same shots
with position :-)
 
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Would love to watch Lou post a video of himself shooting colins shot test. Let's all sweat that some time since there have been scores of videos of CTE players posted in the past.

In FACT, the only people who ever post videos of anything are the CTE guys. It's guys like PJ, Lou, and the like who sit in the shadows and cluck about this and that.

Dave
...has never seen Lou post any videos ever, yet Lou's calling for videos of others.

Here ya go Lou:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8312487248327533414&hl=en#

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=122451
Let's see yours. I'm sure we won't.
 
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one before the other or together?

onepocketron said:
If you don't have a repeatable straight stroke, and cannot consistently deliver the cue ball accurately, aiming systems will mean very little. If I can't hit the mark (no matter what system I am are using to determine the "mark"), my ability to pocket balls will not increase dramatically.
Getting into an aiming system before getting the ability to accurately deliver the cue ball is like putting the cart before the horse IMHO. Usually if I miss a shot it is because I didn't deliver the cue ball to my target accurately, not due to my ability to aim correctly.
The best help I ever recieved was getting the glitches out of my stroke, which greatly improved my ability to accurately deliver the cue ball to the target.
Click to expand...

How do you evaluate and develop a stroke without an aiming system? A precise and repeatable aiming system would be of far more value to a beginner than an advanced player.

This is much like the argument that a beginner doesn't need equipment that plays the equal to the very best. Again the opposite is true. Less than quality equipment makes anything many times harder to learn.

When I was struggling to learn to read windflags, tune loads, set up and handle a rifle on the bench, I had a flawed aiming system. I struggled for months buried deep in the pack. I thought I had a scope issue but if I did it was a tiny one, about 1/10" at 100 yards. The flawed system didn't make me always shoot bigger groups, however it increased aggregate sizes and made it impossible to tell if my loads were tuned perfectly or if I was reading windflags at the level I needed to. I finally put out the thousand dollars to purchase another scope and by swapping scopes back and forth with no other changes proved the first one bad. I largely wasted about six months for lack of a reliable aiming system.

We all use an aiming system as soon as we realize that we have to compensate for both balls being round when we aim. Be it ghost ball, contact points, overlap, whatever, we all use something. If there was a system that let a beginner move from sharply defined starting alignment or aim points through a precise set of steps to an aim or alignment that consistently pocketed balls it would shorten the learning curve tremendously. This is of course the claim that many make for one aiming system or another.

If advanced aiming systems work as well as claimed, I suggest a beginner learning inferior systems is wasting their time. Spend ten minutes or less explaining ghost ball and contact points for background information and teach them the system they will use for the duration of their pool career. Referencing benchrest again, no reason for a person to learn to shoot with iron sights in able to shoot benchrest with a 36x to 45x scope.

The sooner a person can aim well the sooner they can accurately evaluate their equipment and their own mechanics. If a super reliable and repeatable aiming system exists, I think it should be taught to a beginner ASAP. If the aiming system only gets you close enough that ghost ball, contact points, overlap, or educated eyeball can take over, well then you have to have these things first or they can't provide the "fudge factor" it seems advanced systems need.

Hu
 
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