Ivory joint and ferrule

$TAKE HOR$E

$TAKE HOR$E

champagne - campaign
Silver Member
I have heard over the year's that ivory joint's and ferrule's have more "squirt" than most other's. I have had lot's of cue's and have had all make's of ferrule's and joint's and imo I have not noticed a huge difference in any of them (excepte maybe for the steel to soft joint). Some say that ivory will have a softer hit but then other's say it is harder than a phenolic joint for instance. If this is true then why would so many top cuemaker's in history use it. I know everyone has different opinion's and preferance's when it come's to joint's and ferrule's and wondered what it was like from a cuemaker's standpoint.
 
The end mass of your shaft has a lot to do with squirt or deflection. Ivory ferrules can add a weight. Non capped and 5/16 tenon can reduce the squirt.
Ivory is not consistent in hardness and I think that's where the different opinions about hit come from.

I have to disagree with anybody that says Ivory joints affects the deflection. I'd like to hear the theories why if some think it does.

A nice hard piece of Ivory will have a harder hit then Phenolic.
 
Some say that ivory will have a softer hit but then other's say it is harder than a phenolic joint for instance. If this is true then why would so many top cuemaker's in history use it.

The old timers used it because it & bone are the only white materials in nature. The invention of plastic changed that...JER
 
Ivory

Graciocues said:
The end mass of your shaft has a lot to do with squirt or deflection. Ivory ferrules can add a weight. Non capped and 5/16 tenon can reduce the squirt.
Ivory is not consistent in hardness and I think that's where the different opinions about hit come from.

I have to disagree with anybody that says Ivory joints affects the deflection. I'd like to hear the theories why if some think it does.

A nice hard piece of Ivory will have a harder hit then Phenolic.
Click to expand...

Hi,

I agree with everything Scott has posted. Ivory is much harder than phenolics. You can tell as soon as you cutter engages.

I just had a very talented player order his 2nd cue from me and he was very specific about having an ivory ferrule but he made it clear that he did not want it capped.

After reading Scott's post I understand why this guy wanted his ferrule this way. To reduce the end mass. I will make sure to make the tenon 5/16.

Thank you Scott for that description, it was definitely my "learned and defined" thought for the day.

Rick G
 
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Exactly!

BLACKHEARTCUES said:
Some say that ivory will have a softer hit but then other's say it is harder than a phenolic joint for instance. If this is true then why would so many top cuemaker's in history use it.

The old timers used it because it & bone are the only white materials in nature. The invention of plastic changed that...JER
Click to expand...

That's why I don't understand the fasination with Ivory. Natural materials never have the consistancy of man-made material. I tend to think it's more a status thing to be able to say "my cue has Ivory".
 
$TAKE HOR$E said:
I have heard over the year's that ivory joint's and ferrule's have more "squirt" than most other's. I have had lot's of cue's and have had all make's of ferrule's and joint's and imo I have not noticed a huge difference in any of them (excepte maybe for the steel to soft joint). Some say that ivory will have a softer hit but then other's say it is harder than a phenolic joint for instance. If this is true then why would so many top cuemaker's in history use it. I know everyone has different opinion's and preferance's when it come's to joint's and ferrule's and wondered what it was like from a cuemaker's standpoint.
Click to expand...
As a general rule anything that hardens up the hit will cause it to squirt more in my opinion. It is possible there may be exceptions to that rule. But the reason you hear Ivory hits softer is that it was being compared to a stainless joint. The reason you hear it hits harder is that it was being compared to plastics or phenolics.
Ivory provides a hit unique to itself. Some like it and others don't. Just like some like stainless joints and others don't. So the reason it is used is that some like it. Some like it just for it's beauty and others like it for the hit. A lot of straight pool players seemed to like Ivory ferrules as they have a flatter hit with less cue ball action.
As a cuemaker the reason I use Ivory in joints and ferrules is for the looks, how easy it machines, and because some customers like it. I prefer the hit of other materials over it myself, but I still offer it. And for inlay work it is one of my favorite materials.
 
There is an old timer at my pool hall that told me why they used ivory back in the day. He said it's because that was the only material that would flex with the wood in the varying climates, and because it's a natural material.

Me personally, ivory ferrules are all I will play with. In terms of deflection, there was an adjustment period for me, but in reality, deflection is all in your head. The human capacity for learning and performance surpasses the need for LD technology you see today. You have to be experienced enough to know and understand how to enjoy the hit of a genuine maple shaft with an ivory ferrule and still play a good game of pool with absolutely no worries about deflection.....

There is something wonderful about ivory, being a natural material, and it looks great. To me, it's one of those things that can't be explained. If I were to put one word out there, I would say Ivory is, "J U I C Y"...... You can compare it to phenolic, but that to me is like comparing a fiberglass shaft to a maple shaft. There are properties ivory has that can't be compared just in terms of hit. Natural materials like wood and ivory have been used to show off an artist's skill since the beginning of time. Those who know about art will pay to have the nicer materials and among those materials, ivory ranks at the top.
 
Graciocues said:
The end mass of your shaft has a lot to do with squirt or deflection. Ivory ferrules can add a weight. Non capped and 5/16 tenon can reduce the squirt.
Ivory is not consistent in hardness and I think that's where the different opinions about hit come from.

I have to disagree with anybody that says Ivory joints affects the deflection. I'd like to hear the theories why if some think it does.

A nice hard piece of Ivory will have a harder hit then Phenolic.
Click to expand...

Although unrelated I tried to look at your website and it said it had expired on 9/2/2010
 
Bill the Cat said:
That's why I don't understand the fasination with Ivory. Natural materials never have the consistancy of man-made material. I tend to think it's more a status thing to be able to say "my cue has Ivory".
Click to expand...

The Phenolic's we use are not consistent in hardness. Not sure if everybody has noticed it but when cutting you can feel the difference. I received a double black tube that didn't cut as clean so I did some tone testing and it was nothing like the previous batch I was using. I tone check Phenolic and use the hard batches for joints.

There is nothing man made that looks as pretty as Ivory and plays equal. Elfryn is the closest.
 
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scdiveteam said:
Hi,

I agree with everything Scott has posted. Ivory is much harder than phenolics. You can tell as soon as you cutter engages.

I just had a very talented player order his 2nd cue from me and he was very specific about having an ivory ferrule but he made it clear that he did not want it capped.

After reading Scott's post I understand why this guy wanted his ferrule this way. To reduce the end mass. I will make sure to make the tenon 5/16.

Thank you Scott for that description, it was definitely my "learned and defined" thought for the day.

Rick G
Click to expand...

I have some Fossil Walrus Ivory that is a little lighter then Elephant. It has more color and if your customer doesn't mind the subtle differences in color I have some extra.
 
Graciocues said:
Low deflection is not always better. Low deflection shafts tend to miss cue more.
Click to expand...

Please explain how ld shafts can possibly tend to misscue more and the relation to misscueing and deflection. Science not opinion, please.

Bob Danielson
bdcuesandcomix.com
 
$TAKE HOR$E said:
I have heard over the year's that ivory joint's and ferrule's have more "squirt" than most other's. I have had lot's of cue's and have had all make's of ferrule's and joint's and imo I have not noticed a huge difference in any of them (excepte maybe for the steel to soft joint). Some say that ivory will have a softer hit but then other's say it is harder than a phenolic joint for instance. If this is true then why would so many top cuemaker's in history use it. I know everyone has different opinion's and preferance's when it come's to joint's and ferrule's and wondered what it was like from a cuemaker's standpoint.
Click to expand...

Not a real cue maker, more of a cue maker hobbyist, but IMO, it has something to do with profit margin of Ivory.
 
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