14.1 league handicap systems

mnhighrunlist

AzB Silver Member
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I am curious about what various 14.1 leagues are using for handicap system? At Shooters Billiards in Burnsvile, MN we have been using a system based on Bob Jewett's article from Billiards Digest June 2003 for past couple of years. Works well for us.

I have heard of averaging systems etc, what works for other leagues?

-Dennis
 
I am curious about what various 14.1 leagues are using for handicap system? At Shooters Billiards in Burnsvile, MN we have been using a system based on Bob Jewett's article from Billiards Digest June 2003 for past couple of years. Works well for us.

I have heard of averaging systems etc, what works for other leagues?

-Dennis

Can you share the article, as we are about to start our 3rd league season ?

Thanks
-Steve
 
Thanks for the replies.

This all seems very complex, i will have to read it a few times to see if i can get a grip on it !

Thanks
-Steve
 
... This all seems very complex ...
Stated simply:

Every player has a rating. Higher players have higher ratings. Matches are determined by the difference in player ratings from the handicap charts. After each match, the ratings are adjusted: if you win, your rating goes up, if you lose, your rating goes down.

There are lots of details, such as how the charts are constructed, but it's not really important to understand those details.
 
Here are handicapping tables related to the article.

Hello Bob,

We 14.1 Players, at The Jointed Cue, are seriously considering holding a regular
monthly 14.1 Tournament and need to know How to Handicap the Players
.
The Link you provided doesn't seem to work any longer.

Any Help is appreciated, Howard
 
To the original poster, I play in a handicapped league in Denver and it seems to work well. I may add that I am fairly new to the game and league so it's possible that others may not like this system but it seems rather straight forward to me. I read some of the posts in the old threads posted and it looks like most handicaps are like golf where if your a better player you get a lower handicap but in our league it's the opposite.

For instance, our highest ranking player(we'll say bob) in the league has a handicap of 120 and lowest(we'll say tom), has a handicap of 30. It's really simple, Bob has to make 120 balls before Tom makes 30......We play once a week and play the same person two matches each night. If each person wins 1 (they split), there handicap stays the same. Lets say Bob wins both, the following week Bob's handicap would go up 5 balls to 125 and Tom's would go down to 25. So they are adjusted every week.

We pay $15 for dues/green fees every week and have like a 20 week schedule with make up matches built in but can still make them up any time and they just have to be made up by the last week. It's a round robin format. I believe 3 spots are paid out and then some of the dues also go towards a high run pot.

The only two flaws with the handicap that I can see is getting an initial handicap set with new people(like myself) and then timing on when you play a certain person.

The first 2 weeks is to get a handicap established. The first week doesn't end up counting in actual standings but 2nd week does. For the 3rd week on you play everyone once.

So back to the flaws. Since I was new to the system I think my handicap was initially set too low even though myself and others thought it was about right. I ended up going on a winning streak so now my handicap has gone up 20 and I've split the last 3 weeks. So in a way, whomever I played in week 3 had a hard draw because my handicap hadn't really leveled out yet.......

Also, from what I understand about 11/14 of the people in the league have been in it for years and even with them, I've seen really big swings with their handicaps. We have 3 weeks left and there are multiple people who have a handicap of 20 higher/lower than their original handicap so when you play someone could determine a multiple ball swing....Another thing I should add is that there isn't any hundred ball runners in the league but I guess a couple years ago Marc Vidal played and they couldn't get the handicap high enough, so with elite straight pool players finding an appropriate handicap with this system could be difficult.

All in all, it seems like a really good league and the handicap system is very straight forward. It's mostly older players compared to myself and I haven't seen one argument. Even though I've only been playing the game for a short time I really enjoy it. It's extremely challenging and all aspects of my game have improved since I started playing it a couple years ago. It's a shame straight pool's hey days are gone and it's not mainstream in most places.
 
Stated simply:

Every player has a rating. Higher players have higher ratings. Matches are determined by the difference in player ratings from the handicap charts. After each match, the ratings are adjusted: if you win, your rating goes up, if you lose, your rating goes down.

There are lots of details, such as how the charts are constructed, but it's not really important to understand those details.

It's pretty straightforward once you get started. Here are a few comments and a few simply modifications to Bob's format.

Starting ratings: You can always start everybody at 500 and go from there. Or you can make guesses at initial ratings. For a little consistency on what the ratings mean, the following may be helpful

300 will have a high run after a half dozen matches to 100 of 6 to 8 balls.

400 -- After a half dozen matches to 100 will have a high run between 10 and 14. This person can run some open balls, but it is unusual for this player to successfully navigate the transition between racks.

500 -- will have a high run after a half dozen matches to 100 of 18-25. This person will navigate a rack transition several times but probably not twice in the same run

600 --will have a high run after a half dozen matches to 100 of 28 to 40 or so, i.e., will transition two racks a few times

700 -- will likely exceed 50 in those half dozen matches --has run 100 several times...

800 -- strong pro-level player

Format suggestion

Bob's charts attempt to get a fair handicapped match. For example the charts might say Bob goes to 120 and Mike goes to 80, and the two players are equally likely to win.

Our players have enjoyed a slight modification to this handicapped format. All matches are a straight-up contest to 120 (or whatever), and the winner gets a "point." A second point is awarded to the player that exceeds his or her expectation. Here Mike is expected to get to 80 when Bob gets to 120. So Bob exceeds his expectation if he holds Mike below 80, and Mike exceeds his expectation if he reaches 80. So if
Bob wins the match 120-88, each player gets a point, i.e., they split. If Bob beats Mike 120 - 48, he gets two points. And if Mike beats Bob 120-117, Mike gets two points.

Rating updates: We recommend a slight modification here as well. Rather than a blanket update of 3 points (or 2 or 1) for winning the handicapped match, we suggest a rating update of 1 rating point for each 5 balls away from the expectation.

So in the above, Bob was supposed to win 120 to 80, so he was supposed to be up by 40 balls at the end. In the three scenarios, the rating changes would be as follows

120 to 88 (Bob wins by 32 balls instead of 40 [difference from expectation is -8]. Bob goes down a point, Mike up a point)

120 to 48 (Bob wins by 72 balls instead of 40. [difference from expectation is +32] Bob goes up 6 points, mike down 6 points)

117 to 120 (Bob "wins' by -3 instead of 40. [difference from expectation is -43] Bob goes down 8 points, Mike up 8 points)
 
It's pretty straightforward once you get started. Here are a few comments and a few simply modifications to Bob's format.

Starting ratings: You can always start everybody at 500 and go from there. Or you can make guesses at initial ratings. For a little consistency on what the ratings mean, the following may be helpful

300 will have a high run after a half dozen matches to 100 of 6 to 8 balls.

400 -- After a half dozen matches to 100 will have a high run between 10 and 14. This person can run some open balls, but it is unusual for this player to successfully navigate the transition between racks.

500 -- will have a high run after a half dozen matches to 100 of 18-25. This person will navigate a rack transition several times but probably not twice in the same run

600 --will have a high run after a half dozen matches to 100 of 28 to 40 or so, i.e., will transition two racks a few times

700 -- will likely exceed 50 in those half dozen matches --has run 100 several times...

800 -- strong pro-level player

Format suggestion

Bob's charts attempt to get a fair handicapped match. For example the charts might say Bob goes to 120 and Mike goes to 80, and the two players are equally likely to win.

Our players have enjoyed a slight modification to this handicapped format. All matches are a straight-up contest to 120 (or whatever), and the winner gets a "point." A second point is awarded to the player that exceeds his or her expectation. Here Mike is expected to get to 80 when Bob gets to 120. So Bob exceeds his expectation if he holds Mike below 80, and Mike exceeds his expectation if he reaches 80. So if
Bob wins the match 120-88, each player gets a point, i.e., they split. If Bob beats Mike 120 - 48, he gets two points. And if Mike beats Bob 120-117, Mike gets two points.

Rating updates: We recommend a slight modification here as well. Rather than a blanket update of 3 points (or 2 or 1) for winning the handicapped match, we suggest a rating update of 1 rating point for each 5 balls away from the expectation.

So in the above, Bob was supposed to win 120 to 80, so he was supposed to be up by 40 balls at the end. In the three scenarios, the rating changes would be as follows

120 to 88 (Bob wins by 32 balls instead of 40 [difference from expectation is -8]. Bob goes down a point, Mike up a point)

120 to 48 (Bob wins by 72 balls instead of 40. [difference from expectation is +32] Bob goes up 6 points, mike down 6 points)

117 to 120 (Bob "wins' by -3 instead of 40. [difference from expectation is -43] Bob goes down 8 points, Mike up 8 points)


Hey Mike, this is Marcus Lynch from Williston. I like the way your handicap system works. If I remember correctly, my rating is a 540 on your system for the one 8ball tourney I played but I have a high run of 38 in the local league I play in here and have another 35 and multiple 20 ball runs. So if I understand this correctly, my straight pool handicap would be around 600 in your format? This seems a little high but maybe my original rating of 540 is a little low? The X factor here could be that I only played in the one tourney so the rating didn't get a chance to level out? I only bring this up because I'm just curious if there is a good way to get someone an accurate starting handicap? I hope all is well out in the frozen tundra of Fargo
 
Hey Mike, this is Marcus Lynch from Williston. I like the way your handicap system works. If I remember correctly, my rating is a 540 on your system for the one 8ball tourney I played but I have a high run of 38 in the local league I play in here and have another 35 and multiple 20 ball runs. So if I understand this correctly, my straight pool handicap would be around 600 in your format? This seems a little high but maybe my original rating of 540 is a little low? The X factor here could be that I only played in the one tourney so the rating didn't get a chance to level out? I only bring this up because I'm just curious if there is a good way to get someone an accurate starting handicap? I hope all is well out in the frozen tundra of Fargo

Hi Marcus. If you have 3 weeks left, and you play two matches per night, then you've played 34 matches or so. I would say you're similar to me. My rating is a little under 600. I have a lifetime high run of 70 balls with the next two in the 50s. I can imagine similar stats as you in a single season.
 
Hi Marcus. If you have 3 weeks left, and you play two matches per night, then you've played 34 matches or so. I would say you're similar to me. My rating is a little under 600. I have a lifetime high run of 70 balls with the next two in the 50s. I can imagine similar stats as you in a single season.

Ok, that sounds about right then. I think I'm capable of a 60-70 but it may take me a couple more years of getting the patterns right to get there.....I've been playing this game off and on by myself for a couple years and this is the first time I've ever played not only against another person but on 9 ft diamonds with 4 1/2" pockets or slimmer. First goal is to make it to 50 and then I'll go from there.....
 
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