Why CTE is silly

[GetMeThere]

Deleted--in fear of moderators on the warpath!

 

[peteypooldude]

Uhhhhh.....

I'm not throwing any stones Pete. I was merely singing along to Alice's Resturaunt, a favorite song of mine. Arlo Guthrie (who was born as the same month/day as me, oddly enough.)

If you've ever read ony of my posts here (admittedly a small sample) you'll find that I don't do much mud-slinging. And I don't usually agree with Lou, necessarily.

I just love the song. And that's plenty of common ground for me.

Was I contributing to the thread, nah. Was I trashing the thread or anyone involved, nah. Sorry to offend you, especially since I was only singing along... (I actually am hoping Stans DVD sheds major light on this subject. I don't have any way to contribute to the thread regarding the actual subject matter. I'm not skilled or experienced enough.)

"Walk right in, it's along the back. just a half a mile from the railroad track....." :grin:

And how many Thanksgiving songs are there, anyway? This one, and "Thirty-Point Buck". There. Over and out.

My bad.....Sorry
Petey

 

[justadub]

No really: do you write your own material?

Because, Dude, that is like some really funny stuff and you could like totally sell that the next time they do a roast on Comedy Central.

Lou Figueroa
CTE is goofy
-- happy now?

And people bashing CTE is goofy, too. :lmao:
Happier still? Or at all?
See, Lou and I can sing along together and not have to get all uptight.

"You can get anything you want...."

 

[peteypooldude]

No really: do you write your own material?

Because, Dude, that is like some really funny stuff and you could like totally sell that the next time they do a roast on Comedy Central.

Lou Figueroa
CTE is goofy
-- happy now?

So is Lou
Happy now? I am done Lou

 

[Mr. Wilson]

Lou, I'm here telling you to can it.

You went too far with the comments toward Stan.

Knock the crap off.


The same applies to several people in this thread.
Don't push it.

 

[GetMeThere]

I did that.

It measures at the front .535" and at the rear .535" - the same diameter so it is truly cylindrical.

Thanks for your input.

In my field of electro optical engineering, we are peer reviewed and must show imperical/demonstrable evidence of assumptions.

Just because the tube is cylindrical doesn't mean that the laser diode is MOUNTED STRAIGHT within it along the center axis.

No demonstration with a laser will demonstrate that parallel lines aren't parallel (well, unless you're taking about general relativity and gravity, I suppose ?? )

Parallel lines are equidistant throughout their length--if you're telling me that it's possible to be an engineer and not know that....then I ain't drivin' over no more bridges EVER AGAIN! I'd be afraid of THIS!

 

[lfigueroa]

So is Lou
Happy now? I am done Lou

Ecstatic.

But you could at least sing a chorus or two with justadub and me before you go

"You can make any shot you want with center to edge aiming..."

Lou Figueroa
bamm, bamm, bamm

 

[peteypooldude]

Ecstatic.

But you could at least sing a chorus or two with justadub and me before you go

"You can make any shot you want with center to edge aiming..."

Lou Figueroa
bamm, bamm, bamm

OK Lou
I will sing with you . chorus....I gotta skeeter on my ..... or Lou,knock him off knock him off. Gotta skeeter on my Lou knock him off
Hows that lol ?

 

[sfleinen]

I did that.

It measures at the front .535" and at the rear .535" - the same diameter so it is truly cylindrical.

Thanks for your input.

In my field of electro optical engineering, we are peer reviewed and must show imperical/demonstrable evidence of assumptions.

I hope that you are interested enough to try the excercize.

There are other posters here that are engineers that may be interested enough to try it as well.

If I'm correct, then it goes toward explaining why CTE works for some that use it for they are adjusting to the size of th OB appearing smaller when separated from the CB at distances.

Those that are successful at CTE may have incorporated "this decreasing shift" into their pre-pivot shift while looking at the smaller OB and are thus dereasing the included angle.

The smaller shift and resulting decreasing angle prevents the CB from sailing past the outside of the OB down table.

As I have said before...this is pool and an academic excercise for me.

Thanks for your time....wasted.:smile:

LAMas:

Unfortunately, I'm at work at the moment, in the deepest recesses of a huge data center filled with Cisco gear. Obviously I don't have access to pool balls, much less a pool table and laser pointer, but I might later.

However, what you're saying violates all rules of physics. If you're truly moving that laser beam's reflection from the edge of the object ball, to its center, that distance is as you already stated: 1.125 inch. If the laser pointer's casing is truly cylindrical, it should also move 1.125 inch *as viewed from above*. Otherwise if it doesn't, something happened where the laser beam didn't move in a perfectly perpendicular line.

If you're trying to infer that parallel straight lines really aren't parallel (e.g. at some point in the horizon, those train tracks really do converge together), or if you're suggesting that, if you extend a true cylinder's center outward a certain distance, and if you roll that cylinder a certain distance, its extended center travels a different distance than the original cylinder (as viewed from above), I gotta tell ya, you gotta write that up in the form of a paper for mathematicians to review. For you're suggesting something that somehow breaks the laws of physics and mathematics.

If I'm misunderstanding you, please show me where I misunderstood.

P.S.: apologies if I appear to be "hit and run" when it comes to this thread. I participate when I can, when I have the time. Life has a way of getting in the way.

-Sean

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I bought a cylindirical laser pointer and have rolled it while it was pointed at the edge of the OB down table, 7 feet or so, to it's center and the distance that it rolled was less that 1/2 the diameter of a CB or less than 1.125".

Then you didn't roll it straight.

You clearly haven't done this.

I don't need to - and frankly, it astounds me that you need to. As I said, this is a perfect example of how very simple and basic geometric principles can be obvious to some and completely lost on others.

Saying I need to use a laser pointer to "test" how parallel lines behave is about like saying I need to test whether a laser beam is a straight line. It's absurd. Some things just don't need to be tested to know whether or not they're true - like CTE's "exactness".

This is no more open for debate than whether the sun will rise tomorrow. You may think I'm being arrogant and "closed minded", but you're wrong - about me and about parallel lines.

But I admire the unconventionality of the idea.

pj
chgo

 

[LAMas]

I'll bite.

You all are correct. but....

What I am sayin is that if you put a sheet of glass in front of the cue or in this case, the cylindrical laser pointer and draw on the glass the smaller diameter of the OB down table, say 7 feet away. You will draw a circle of about 3/8 of an inch in diameter for that is what your eye/s will see from behind the CB at the plane of the glass - like you were shooting a shot.

Now if you put the laser pointer aimed at the edge of the 3/8" circle, in front of the glass, and roll it to the center, it will have traversed 3/16".

Try it....you can use a plain round dowel if you dont have a cylindrical laser pointer (what I posted months ago). Dr dave was interested but like most, I confounded him....I think.

Thanks for your time....wasted.:smile:

 

[Patrick Johnson]

OK I'd like to see a lot of responses to this question

AGREE --or-- DISAGREE
Assuming player can hit the vertical center of the cueball,

Aiming involved two things that are both necessary & sufficient (i.e., these two things and only these two things).

(1) recognize the line

(2) place the bridge on it.

Agree.

pj
chgo

 

[Mikjary]

I did that.

It measures at the front .535" and at the rear .535" - the same diameter so it is truly cylindrical.

Thanks for your input.

In my field of electro optical engineering, we are peer reviewed and must show imperical/demonstrable evidence of assumptions.

I hope that you are interested enough to try the excercize.

There are other posters here that are engineers that may be interested enough to try it as well.

If I'm correct, then it goes toward explaining why CTE works for some that use it for they are adjusting to the size of th OB appearing smaller when separated from the CB at distances.

Those that are successful at CTE may have incorporated "this decreasing shift" into their pre-pivot shift while looking at the smaller OB and are thus dereasing the included angle.

The smaller shift and resulting decreasing angle prevents the CB from sailing past the outside of the OB down table.

As I have said before...this is pool and an academic excercise for me.

Thanks for your time....wasted.:smile:

LAMas,

This is good. :wink:

Best,
Mike

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I'll bite.

You all are correct. but....

What I am sayin is that if you put a sheet of glass in front of the cue or in this case, the cylindrical laser pointer and draw on the glass the smaller diameter of the OB down table, say 7 feet away. You will draw a circle of about 3/8 of an inch in diameter for that is what your eye/s will see from behind the CB at the plane of the glass - like you were shooting a shot.

Now if you put the laser pointer aimed at the edge of the 3/8" circle, in front of the glass, and roll it to the center, it will have traversed 3/16".

You can't do that with a real ball in the distance without using UNparallel lines that only look parallel to you. And since they only look parallel their actual distance apart will vary with different players because what looks parallel will vary to them.

pj
chgo

 

[dr_dave]

Try it....you can use a plain round dowel if you dont have a cylindrical laser pointer (what I posted months ago). Dr dave was interested but like most, I confounded him....I think.

LaMas,

I don't think I'm confounded, but I honestly don't fully understand the point you are trying to make. What I do know is that if you do a true parallel shift from the edge of an OB to the center of the OB, the shifted line will be 1 1/8" away from the original line, regardless of how far away the OB is.

I have a laser, and I just did your experiment (I think). Every time I did a parallel shift from the OB edge to the OB center, the laser move sideways 1 1/8", for every OB distance I tried. Now, as others have pointed out, the original and shifted lines might not look parallel, due to perspective effects, but this effect does not change with OB distance.

Sorry I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

Regards,
Dave

 

[LAMas]

Then you didn't roll it straight.


I don't need to - and frankly, it astounds me that you need to. As I said, this is a perfect example of how very simple and basic geometric principles can be obvious to some and completely lost on others.

Saying I need to use a laser pointer to "test" how parallel lines behave is about like saying I need to test whether a laser beam is a straight line. It's absurd. Some things just don't need to be tested to know whether or not they're true - like CTE's "exactness".

This is no more open for debate than whether the sun will rise tomorrow. You may think I'm being arrogant and "closed minded", but you're wrong - about me and about parallel lines.

But I admire the unconventionality of the idea.

pj
chgo

I don't know if you are arrogant and "closed minded", but I will say that you are tenacious in your understandings and beliefs....a virtue.:smile:

Cheers.

 

[LAMas]

LaMas,

I don't think I'm confounded, but I honestly don't fully understand the point you are trying to make. What I do know is that if you do a true parallel shift from the edge of an OB to the center of the OB, the shifted line will be 1 1/8" away from the original line, regardless of how far away the OB is.

I have a laser, and I just did your experiment (I think). Every time I did a parallel shift from the OB edge to the OB center, the laser move sideways 1 1/8", for every OB distance I tried. Now, as others have pointed out, the original and shifted lines might not look parallel, due to perspective effects, but this effect does not change with OB distance.

Sorry I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

Regards,
Dave

Dave,

Did the OB down table look progressively smaller?

Did you draw the smaller appearing OB on a pane of glass in front of where the CB would be (focal plane)? Don't use the CB as a reference for this experiment....just the laser pointer.

Is your laser pointer truely cylindrical and did you roll it on the table so that is axis was parallel to the original CTEL - with regards to the smaller diameter?

I'm sorry that I thought that you were confounded with what I proffered then..

Thanks for your time...wasted.:smile:

 

[BRKNRUN]

I Promise you that the only time I look at the pocket is to see if the path is clear. But that is me.
Is it possible that the math is not taking the movement of the body and eyes in the equation ?
I am not a mathematician ,at least not on your level

So what do you do if you only have half a pocket to shoot at?

 

[BRKNRUN]

Cool little video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbmNcYH52eo&feature=fvw

Stop it at where aiming is discussed. See the two balls touching. No matter what angle you look at it, the CP is in the same spot and same size. No such thing as a 1/4,1/2 ball and so on.

See the x. That is the point of the arrow. So using the arrow trains you to see a spot on the table, in this case the x.

Now this is where I disagree with alot of people about GB and that is putting the center of the CB at the x or on the same plane as the CP of the OB.

My view is that the CB contact patch is what is rolled over the x or the point of the arrow. The CB contact patch being the area of the CB that touches the table.

Now the CB contact patch has a opposite point that is on top of the CB. So all you have to do is get straight behind the CB and aim the top of the CB to the x or arrow and the OB will go in.

Oh, see the line and x that was drawn. the line represent the direction of travel and the x represents the start point of the direction of travel. So, once the spot is located on the table, the OB is not really needed.

But even with this over a long period of time, you will just get in the frame of mind of put the CB here, the OB goes there.

FWIW

Simple.

Mike Page is the most underated instructor out there....All of his videos make complete sense (at least to me)

Very clear concise easy to logically understand methods.

 

[duckie]

Deleted-oops , my bad I was wrong.