Problems with Perry Weston and the ACA.

[Kickin' Chicken]

I think it was really bad form for the OP to publicly speculate over PW's financial situation as being a possible contributing factor as to why he (PW) didn't make good on the cue. Sharing pictures with us of the cue he sent and also his p-r-i-c-k-l-y email responses was plenty enough info to make your case.

On another note, people should be aware that the perfect defense to slander is truth.

Unless he is flat out lying, I on't see that he is any legal jeopardy.

As for the OP going to small claims court to resolve this, I believe he said he has already sold the cue so he would now only be entitled to what he lost when he sold it. Probably way too much work for what he may get back.

This truly is a sad situation for all.

Best,
Brian kc

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Point taken, maybe a bit too far. I'm certainly no lawyer. I just hate seeing all the negativity when it's unnecessary. The ACA & Dave Jacoby had nothing to do with building the cue & should never have been brought into question or even mentioned. Nor should have Weston's personal matters.

Eric;

I'm with you 100% that the OP should not have brought up PW's finances.

I must say though, if I were in the same spot as the OP and was getting stuck with that cross-eyed mangey, mongrel, instead of the purebread cue I ordered, I believe I would have also reached out to ACA's president.

I have no idea what the OP paid for this cue but my sense is that it was north of $1000. Once he received this very disappointing cue and then quickly found himself on a dead end road with PW, he had nowhere left to turn but ACA. And as you have probably read here on this thread, ACA has a mission statement and code of ethics that in essence says, our members are gonna ship you a cue of high quality while conducting themselves in a professional manner.

Since apparently, the OP received an extremely bad quality cue and was then met with very rude emails from the cuemaker, I believe contacting the ACA and their president was the correct next step. And having received no satisfaction there, I believe posting here on AZB was also the right thing to do.

Seems like the man reached out for help, got none, then has come here as a last resort.

Aside from not bringing up PW's finances, or filing for a torturous small-clams action, can you suggest any other way he could have better handled this?

Best,
Brian kc

 

[maha]

the OP is doing the right thing here. by bringing problems with dealers or builders to the forefront it makes all of them and us more responsible. only because the bad publicity hurts and hurts bad.

when we buy something special on the internet we have to trust the seller to a point to be fair and just. when we find the opposite there is not always any way to get the situation corrected if the seller refuses. how can any seller expect a totally mad buyer that felt he was screwed to keep quiet and let the transaction slide. by having noisy buyers the sellers must know that upholding their end is good business. and they must come to the internet if necessary and defend themselves or give a good explanation.

if an organization accepts a seller into it, that organizations respect is also tied to the sellers reputation. right or wrong that is how it is. so if the other cue makers stand quiet that means they are accepting what PW has done if he indeed did anything wrong. and they should be finding out the situation quickly as it will reflect on them as well.

 

[ridewiththewind]

Point taken, maybe a bit too far. I'm certainly no lawyer. I just hate seeing all the negativity when it's unnecessary. The ACA & Dave Jacoby had nothing to do with building the cue & should never have been brought into question or even mentioned. Nor should have Weston's personal matters.

There were definitely some 'rights' and 'wrongs' in this thread.

I am still unsure as to why the OP does not wish to have the pics posted up publicly, because they make his case.

I do feel, that given the situation, the posted emails were relevant.

While I have no issue with the OP contacting Dave Jacoby, I do not think it was fair to mention this publicly simply because the OP felt that Dave wasn't getting the OP the desired results, which was an immediate, satisfying resolution on his deal with Perry Weston. To intimate that it was because Dave and Perry are friends, was again, unfair.

The OP indicates that he looked up Perry's personal financial info for the purposes of a potential court case...that still did not make it right to post that info publicly. I do feel that he crossed the line in that respect.

Blaming the ACA for not forcing Perry to resolve the issue is also not right or fair. Yes, he is a member of their organization, but you cannot hold them all up for his actions. These things take time...and I am sure the issue would have been addressed with the general membership, had the opportunity been given.

I get that the OP is pissed off about the cue and his treatment, I do. However, when requesting help with an issue, you don't then go on the attack because it's not happening like you had expected, and not happening overnight.

Furthermore...the OP just hurt himself by now selling the cue in question. Pics are great for online...but a court, and perhaps even the ACA, would have very likely have wanted the opportunity to inspect the cue in person to validate or repudiate the claims being made. It's called evidence. At this point, this is a done deal.

I feel bad for everyone involved...because this whole thing has gone sideways in a big, big way....and there are people being hurt that had no involvement in the original transaction.

Lisa

 

[joeyb]

Eric,
Well, his personal matters became my problem. Given the way he handled this situation. This is a classic case of what I said earlier "Someone makes their money problem, my money problem." I am a very agreeable person. We had a lot of options to resolve this situation. But, with Perry Weston not complying there was no solution.(at least not an affordable one) This is why I took it to the ACA, and I had nothing to lose at that point. I have done high level sales for the last 15 years, dealing with very large transaction dollar amounts. Any of the organizations that I have belonged to, would have kicked me out if I did something as unethical as Perry did. Perry's nasty email to me was a reflection of the fact the he expected me just to go away. But, he needs to be exposed. This doesn't just go for cue maker but any business opened to the general public. The internet is here for informational purposes. And, I can tell you that Perry doesn't care about this post. Perry did this because he knows there is no real regulation in this industry. Most cue maker don't even accept credit cards. That would add a least some degree of regulation, I would have had a dispute filed with my card company. There is a lot of one sided trust when ordering a custom cue. Especially when the transaction is two parties that have a great distance between them.(Arkansa/Pennsylvania)

 

[manwon]

Sending out a flawed cue is an understatement - it was horrible. The OP asked him to resolve it--- he refused and told him to cry to his mother about it.

I know you cue makers stick together, but sending a crap cue out to a guy who pre-paid in the neighborhood of $2000 and refusing to fix it is cut-and-dry.

The OP prob would not have posted anything had PW done the right thing from square-one instead of telling his client to shove it. Even IF the OP was a dick and started to get rammy -- he was panicking because PW sent a horrible cue out and was not doing the right thing from step-1.

I see it a little differently. I think the OP helped PW's image a bit by posting that stuff. Otherwise, I would think he was a stone cold thief instead of someone under duress.

This is a black/white case. Open/shut. The cuemaker didn't "accidentally" send this cue out (responding to your "he's human" comment). It was intentional. His action is what caused this shit-storm. He could have done the right thing immediately, but chose to tell the client to f-off (plain and simple).

So, the proof is in the puddin'. This wasn't a cue with a flaw or two--- the entire cue was a "flaw" in my opinion. PW knew it and chose to ram it down the guy's throat. That's why there's a thread. It's not like PW made any effort to make it right. If he did, there wouldn't be a thread.

Dave

I know you cue makers stick together,


I think that is an unfair statement to make, while many cue makers will stay out of thread like this, they do not condone or try to cover up the actions of other cues makers who have poor service.

I think most cue makers feel like this is a Black Eye on the entire industry, and I am certain that many if not all find this situation embarrassing and hope that it is resolved as soon as possible.

JIMO

 

[Spimp13]

Furthermore...the OP just hurt himself by now selling the cue in question. Pics are great for online...but a court, and perhaps even the ACA, would have very likely have wanted the opportunity to inspect the cue in person to validate or repudiate the claims being made. It's called evidence. At this point, this is a done deal.

Lisa

Which brings up another point on the ebay listing. No returns accepted and no mention of the flaws...I know it is his ebay item and he can list it as a new cue which it is. I just find that a bit interesting and might tell us a bit more about the OP.

<---Doesn't like to speculate but.....

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Eric,
Well, his personal matters became my problem. Given the way he handled this situation. This is a classic case of what I said earlier "Someone makes their money problem, my money problem."

Unless you have made some new discoveries since you last wrote about this, you are one again making a speculative statement.

I think a lot of people here sympathize with your position ragarding this deal but continuing to beat the financial speculation drum is going to cost you some supporters.

And can you please clarify; did someone elude to you having listed this PW cue on ebay without disclosing the disappointing flaws? I certainly may have read it wrong.

Best,
Brian kc

 

[ridewiththewind]

Which brings up another point on the ebay listing. No returns accepted and no mention of the flaws...I know it is his ebay item and he can list it as a new cue which it is. I just find that a bit interesting and might tell us a bit more about the OP.

<---Doesn't like to speculate but.....

I find it very interesting that the link supplied to me has suddenly disappeared! If it is as you have stated, and no returns accepted and none of the flaws exposed...then this just adds a whole new wrinkle. This suddenly stinks to high heaven!!

Update: I was provided a different link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...v4%2F1ZmyQ87C3tMr4%3D&viewitem=#ht_500wt_1156

Lisa

 

[joeyb]

Mike,
Let me correct you. The ebay ad had the generic disclaimer that the item was a defective or maybe a factory 2nd. And the ad has not been up for at least 3 weeks.

" A new, unused item with absolutely no signs of wear. The item may be missing the original packaging, or in the original packaging but not sealed. The item may be a factory second or a new, unused item with defects."

 

[tucson9ball]

post deleted.......

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I know you cue makers stick together,


I think that is an unfair statement to make, while many cue makers will stay out of thread like this, they do not condone or try to cover up the actions of other cues makers who have poor service.

I think most cue makers feel like this is a Black Eye on the entire industry, and I am certain that many if not all find this situation embarrassing and hope that it is resolved as soon as possible.

JIMO

I think that was a fair comment - as it holds true to not only cue makers, but anyone within a given industry. Most err to the side of their own kind. However, most do without thinking of the consequences. Sometimes it's better to call a colleague out and call foul rather than spinning the situation (the cue IS what it IS).

I stand by my repeated saying that the cue is alone is proof of the "wrong" in this case. Everything that happened after that is a result of that cue leaving the shop. It's like the old saying, "Everything after the 'but' is bvllshit." It's true. Maybe the OP shouldn't have posted personal info. Maybe the ACA shouldn't have been brought up. What I do know is everything is a result of Joey getting robbed on that cue, based on the pics I saw.

I think if I was a cue maker I'd be enraged for PW sending this cue out (that's how BAD it really was). People reading AZB might be inclined to think they can get better quality with a production cue than a custom. It only hurts the industry.

Flame away at me.... but that cue sucked so bad PW should be crucified for sending that to Joey and telling him he owns it as-is and to cry to his mother.

Now, here we are pages into a thread discussing this and that--- for what? There shouldn't have been a thread because PW should have re-made the cue or refunded his money. Firing Joey as a customer (for whatever reason) is acceptable as long as it's paired with one of the above options. Sending a junk cue into the market like that is only begging to be crucified in internet forums, imo.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

I find it very interesting that the link supplied to me has suddenly disappeared! If it is as you have stated, and no returns accepted and none of the flaws exposed...then this just adds a whole new wrinkle. This suddenly stinks to high heaven!!

Lisa

Try this link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...&nma=true=&si=jloxFALo2q1vHOOuQaPoWA42amo%3D=

Click on "see full description"

 

[Spimp13]

Mike,
Let me correct you. The ebay ad had the generic disclaimer that the item was a defective or maybe a factory 2nd. And the ad has not been up for at least 3 weeks.

The listing is from about a month ago.

Item specifics
Condition: New other (see details): A new, unused item with absolutely no signs of wear. The item may be missing the original packaging, or in the original packaging but not sealed. The item may be a factory second or a new, unused item with defects. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections. See all condition definitions- opens in a new window or tab... Read moreabout the condition Brand: Perry Weston
Length: 58" Cue Type: Two-Piece
Shaft Size: 12.75 mm Weight: 18 - 21 oz


Perry Weston Cues


Brand new-Perry Weston Cue


- Delivered September 3, 2010 from Perry Weston direct.
- One of a Kind.
- Genuine elephant ear wrap
- ebony, silver, purple heart
- 12 point (3 high/ 3 low in the forearm, 3 high/3 low in the butt sleeve)
- 132 inlays (silver stars, silver diamonds, silver spear heads, silver squares)
- 2 shafts(both 12.75, 3.6oz)
- Matching joint protectors(shaft protectors are numbered I and II in purple heart inlays)
- Weight is 18oz with no weight bolts. Weight can be added
- Elforyn ferrules and Kamui black medium tips
- Titanium radial pin

Used-Perry Weston Sneaky Pete

- This was one of Perry's personal playing cues
- four point Bocote wood with a curly maple forearm
- 1 shaft (12.5mm approx.)(includes joint protectors)
- Weight is approx. 18.1 with no weight bolt. Weight can be added
- Stainless Steel Radial pin



Basically covering yourself saying it "may be a factory second or new unused item with factory defects."

 

[ridewiththewind]

The listing is from about a month ago.

Item specifics
Condition: New other (see details): A new, unused item with absolutely no signs of wear. The item may be missing the original packaging, or in the original packaging but not sealed. The item may be a factory second or a new, unused item with defects. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections. See all condition definitions- opens in a new window or tab... Read moreabout the condition Brand: Perry Weston
Length: 58" Cue Type: Two-Piece
Shaft Size: 12.75 mm Weight: 18 - 21 oz


Perry Weston Cues


Brand new-Perry Weston Cue


- Delivered September 3, 2010 from Perry Weston direct.
- One of a Kind.
- Genuine elephant ear wrap
- ebony, silver, purple heart
- 12 point (3 high/ 3 low in the forearm, 3 high/3 low in the butt sleeve)
- 132 inlays (silver stars, silver diamonds, silver spear heads, silver squares)
- 2 shafts(both 12.75, 3.6oz)
- Matching joint protectors(shaft protectors are numbered I and II in purple heart inlays)
- Weight is 18oz with no weight bolts. Weight can be added
- Elforyn ferrules and Kamui black medium tips
- Titanium radial pin

Used-Perry Weston Sneaky Pete

- This was one of Perry's personal playing cues
- four point Bocote wood with a curly maple forearm
- 1 shaft (12.5mm approx.)(includes joint protectors)
- Weight is approx. 18.1 with no weight bolt. Weight can be added
- Stainless Steel Radial pin



Basically covering yourself saying it "may be a factory second or new unused item with factory defects."

I did finally view the ad. Thanks to those who provided it.

Pot, Kettle, Black.

 

[manwon]

I think that was a fair comment - as it holds true to not only cue makers, but anyone within a given industry. Most err to the side of their own kind. However, most do without thinking of the consequences. Sometimes it's better to call a colleague out and call foul rather than spinning the situation (the cue IS what it IS).

I stand by my repeated saying that the cue is alone is proof of the "wrong" in this case. Everything that happened after that is a result of that cue leaving the shop. It's like the old saying, "Everything after the 'but' is bvllshit." It's true. Maybe the OP shouldn't have posted personal info. Maybe the ACA shouldn't have been brought up. What I do know is everything is a result of Joey getting robbed on that cue, based on the pics I saw.

I think if I was a cue maker I'd be enraged for PW sending this cue out (that's how BAD it really was). People reading AZB might be inclined to think they can get better quality with a production cue than a custom. It only hurts the industry.

Flame away at me.... but that cue sucked so bad PW should be crucified for sending that to Joey and telling him he owns it as-is and to cry to his mother.

Now, here we are pages into a thread discussing this and that--- for what? There shouldn't have been a thread because PW should have re-made the cue or refunded his money. Firing Joey as a customer (for whatever reason) is acceptable as long as it's paired with one of the above options. Sending a junk cue into the market like that is only begging to be crucified in internet forums, imo.

I am not trying to flame you on any level, I just disagree with the comment that I outlined that you made, it is just mt opinion and nothing more.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I did finally view the ad. Thanks to those who provided it.

Pot, Kettle, Black.

If I read that correctly, the OP said the cue had defects / was a "second." Was the pot/kettle/black directed at him or someone else? I think that ebay ad was ok. The buyer knew they were getting a PW cue brand new and real cheap and the ad said it had defects--- so that's up-front.

Just curious-
Dave

 

[eezbank]

What does this do to the value of the Weston cues that are already out there if anything? If I owned one I'd be on the guy to get on here and do some damage control to protect my investment.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I am not trying to flame you on any level, I just disagree with the comment that I outlined that you made, it is just mt opinion and nothing more.

Fair enough, Craig. I think this thread is spun into knowing all the facts, etc. There is only one fact and that's the cue. I'm prob at an advantage since I looked at the pics of the cue. I made that comment based on qbuilder's first post or so. I'm not sure if he saw the pics and if he did, why he would have posted what he did. If I was a cue maker, I would have been upset because that's like someone pissing in the pool - if you know what I mean. So, that's why I made that comment. Prob over-generalized and for that I'm sorry.

Dave

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

If I read that correctly, the OP said the cue had defects / was a "second." Was the pot/kettle/black directed at him or someone else? I think that ebay ad was ok. The buyer knew they were getting a PW cue brand new and real cheap and the ad said it had defects--- so that's up-front.

Just curious-
Dave

Not exactly Spider. The blurb about the condition is the EBay standard verbage:

New other (see details): A new, unused item with absolutely no signs of wear. The item may be missing the original packaging, or in the original packaging but not sealed. The item may be a factory second or a new, unused item with defects. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections

The part I highlighted is quite important. There is no mention of any imperfections in the seller's listing.