Playing Professionally

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Miya Butreaks

Registered
Hello prospective advice givers.

I guess a little background couldn't hurt, I'm 22 and have been playing since the day I turned 16. I didn't have much desire to play competitively initially, but in recent years I've really fallen in love with tournament play. A year ago I lost my good friend and billiard instructor whom was always pushing me to try and go pro.

That loss destroyed my confidence in my game, but I'm feeling good about the game again and have decided to do what i can to get to the big leagues before it's too late (my fear always being I've gotten too old).

I know I'm not good enough to jump right in, so I'm looking for suggestions on coaching. I'm in Utah so I'm sure I would have to leave the state, but I can deal with that.

Don't let my screen name fool you, I'm serious about the game. I practice (drills not play) from 20-35 hours a week. That number would be higher if I didn't work part-time and go to school full-time.

Any advice on how to reach my goal would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
Miya Butreaks said:
Hello prospective advice givers.

I guess a little background couldn't hurt, I'm 22 and have been playing since the day I turned 16. I didn't have much desire to play competitively initially, but in recent years I've really fallen in love with tournament play. A year ago I lost my good friend and billiard instructor whom was always pushing me to try and go pro.

That loss destroyed my confidence in my game, but I'm feeling good about the game again and have decided to do what i can to get to the big leagues before it's too late (my fear always being I've gotten too old).

I know I'm not good enough to jump right in, so I'm looking for suggestions on coaching. I'm in Utah so I'm sure I would have to leave the state, but I can deal with that.

Don't let my screen name fool you, I'm serious about the game. I practice (drills not play) from 20-35 hours a week. That number would be higher if I didn't work part-time and go to school full-time.

Any advice on how to reach my goal would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Click to expand...

You need to define your goal more clearly.

You can play in every pro event in this country barring the Mosconi Cup right now. Just pay the entry. So the bar for entry into the "Pro" ranks is pretty low. I would bet that if you can play at all and went to every points ranking event in the country you would be ranked in top 100 "Pro" players in the country after your first complete year.

The best way to become a "Pro" pool player in the U.S. is to finish school, get a good job that pays well and allows you freedom to travel then simply go to all of the events. That way you can say are a "Pro" and still be able to have a life when that fact stops sounding so glamourous.

Now if you want to truly be one of the best players in the world you are probably too late. If you play 20-30 hours a week for the last six years and you are not already one of the best in your region and able to get in the money at Open events at 22 then it is highly unlikely you will ever reach the elite level. Almost every truly great player I can think of was already pretty damn good at 22. John Schmidt didnt start playing till he was 18 but even he was strong as hell by then. The basic talent is there early and the coming years adds seasoning and mental toughness.

What I mean by elite in the above statement is someone who is a legit threat to win any Open event they enter.

Also one final thing.....if you want to play pool full time one thing above all others is required: You must hate money.

Thus endeth the sermon, thus endeth the lesson. Go forth and prosper.
 
Miya Butreaks said:
... I know I'm not good enough to jump right in, so I'm looking for suggestions on coaching. I'm in Utah so I'm sure I would have to leave the state, but I can deal with that. ... Any advice on how to reach my goal would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
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How well do you play now? Try some racks (10-50) of Equal Offense and let us know the scores. Without knowing how you play now it is very difficult for anyone to make useful suggestions on how to proceed.

The main thing you need a coach for at the start is to make sure your fundamentals are solid. Many of the things you need to learn are readily available in books and DVDs -- that wasn't the case 30 years ago -- and you can work on much of that independently, especially if you are good at book learning.

Good luck with your game.
 
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Lol, thank you JCIN. I like your advice on hating money. I am planning on getting my PhD so my long future student career can apparently attest to my hatred of money. And to elaborate I wish I had practiced as much as I have been for the past six years. In reality I only really played up until the last year or so (a year which has had sporadic time for practice).

Neil, I guess I didn't phrase that well. My friend actually died at a tournament we were playing. That created a lot of distractions when I played, which caused poor playing in turn causing lack of confidence. I realized how stupid I was being and overcame that.

Mr. Jewett, I will do as you suggest and return my scores at a later day. Unfortunately this week is loaded with exams so I'm isolated from the table for a day or two.

Thanks for all of your responses, I appreciate everyone taking the time to comment. And thanks for the suggestion that I'm too old JCIN for elite play, that makes me that much more determined to try.
 
Nothing wrong with "trying" to become a pro-level player...as long as you're not trying to make a living doing it (get that PhD and a GOOD job). The top 5% make enough money to live well...most of the rest live "paycheck to paycheck" (or basically starve). The problem is there's NO paycheck unless you WIN the tournament. 4th place is break even, at best. You can't make money gambling, so that's a dead end too. The only real money, imo, in pool, is the entertainment end. Exhibitions pay well, and there are many people who could be very successful in this venue. There are tons of avenues...colleges, military, poolrooms, bars, corporate events, etc. I've been doing it for 15 years.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Scott Lee said:
Nothing wrong with "trying" to become a pro-level player...as long as you're not trying to make a living doing it (get that PhD and a GOOD job). The top 5% make enough money to live well...most of the rest live "paycheck to paycheck" (or basically starve). The problem is there's NO paycheck unless you WIN the tournament. 4th place is break even, at best. You can't make money gambling, so that's a dead end too. The only real money, imo, in pool, is the entertainment end. Exhibitions pay well, and there are many people who could be very successful in this venue. There are tons of avenues...colleges, military, poolrooms, bars, corporate events, etc. I've been doing it for 15 years.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

I don't know why top players don't do this as much. It's partially how Alex Higgins created so much interest in snooker.
 
I agree with what has been said in previous posts. Making a living playing pool is absolutely brutal. The pros that are making a good living off the sport are marketing themselves, and not just relying on their pool game to survive.
I will tell you like I've told many. Get an education! Find a good job that you really enjoy. After that, you can pursue you pool dream.You will never regret it.
 
Scott Lee said:
You can't make money gambling, so that's a dead end

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

unless you happen to be the better gambler .

Lotta people gamblin' on pool ~ SOMEBODY has to win it . . . .
The problem is most pool halls have the same 5 guys that have been tradin' that same $100 bill back and forth between themselves for years . . . . .
just takes a minute to figure out whose got it , and how to get it . . .

but get that Ph.D first , and earn that mad cash - remember , losing a million stings less if you HAVE ten million
( I only know cuz I once did exactly that - with PESOS !!):grin-square:
 
JCIN put it perfectly. Take a close look at the money list for the top players in the world for the last few years and then factor in travel costs and related expenses. Sadly, the vast majority of professional pool players are only a couple steps from flat broke.

If you're looking to spend a couple years to see where you stand, that's one thing but if you're looking for a "career" as a pool player, I'd suggest you make your education your priority. If you factor in the amount of time required to compete at the highest level and the amount that the absolute best players in the world make, it's a pretty sad hourly wage that can disappear as quickly as it arrives.

One quote that heard years ago is pretty fitting:

Most professional pool players don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of.
 
Once again thank you to everyone who took the time to post. I appreciate all of the advice. I will undoubtedly continue my education and aim for my Ph.D.

I guess I don't desire to use the game as a means of financial support, I just want to stand toe to toe with the greats and hopefully beat them :). I would like to do just as several have suggested, use my intellectual passion to fuel my passion for billiards.

For me playing pool is about the thrill and satisfaction of controlling the physical reality taking place on the table (just a little bit of my domineering personality I guess) not the monetary reward that comes from the win.

Also, I have not forgotten about posting my equal offense scores. Upcoming finals week has really got me in a crunch, upon completion I will give in to hedonism and return to the table.
 
Miya Butreaks said:
Once again thank you to everyone who took the time to post. I appreciate all of the advice. I will undoubtedly continue my education and aim for my Ph.D.

I guess I don't desire to use the game as a means of financial support, I just want to stand toe to toe with the greats and hopefully beat them :). I would like to do just as several have suggested, use my intellectual passion to fuel my passion for billiards.

For me playing pool is about the thrill and satisfaction of controlling the physical reality taking place on the table (just a little bit of my domineering personality I guess) not the monetary reward that comes from the win.

Also, I have not forgotten about posting my equal offense scores. Upcoming finals week has really got me in a crunch, upon completion I will give in to hedonism and return to the table.
Click to expand...
It appears you have your head on straight so best of luck to you on improving your game. So many times we see people who claim they want to jump in and do nothing but play pool to "be the best". That almost never works out.

If you follow the path you are on, get a solid education and a solid base of stability to work from then I think it will make that much better of a player in the end. Good luck to you.
 
Miya Butreaks...Good for you. As JCIN said, you've got a good idea of how to get what you want. BTW, that same thrill is what drives ALL of us on the pool table, regardless of whether you can't run 3 balls...or you can run racks!:thumbup: Good luck with your education and your future pool career!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Miya Butreaks said:
For me playing pool is about the thrill and satisfaction of controlling the physical reality taking place on the table (just a little bit of my domineering personality I guess) not the monetary reward that comes from the win.
Click to expand...
 
Well, I finally remembered to try a few racks of equal offense. I made it through 10 racks before the university pool hall closed at the obscenely early time of 10:15
It's definately time to get back to practice, been schooling for two weeks. It appears as though I need to learn how to play straight pool, people here only play 9.

20
10 - missed going for tough breakout
4 - missed dumb cut
15 - cueball stuck in rack on break
20
19
5 - missed same cut as before
15
6 - distraction, didn't reset
20

So I guess that's an average of 13.4 I'll play some more racks to get a larger sample size. This unfortunately will have to wait as I am going on a cruise for a week. The ship doesn't have any pool tables, I don't know how I'll survive :(
 
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Professional play as tax write off?

Would it be possible to declare one's self a professional player & take a tax write off to travel to tournaments in cities one wants to visit & take off travel, lodging, entry fee as tax deductions & thereby reduce the cost of travel?
 
Scott Lee said:
Nothing wrong with "trying" to become a pro-level player...as long as you're not trying to make a living doing it (get that PhD and a GOOD job). The top 5% make enough money to live well...most of the rest live "paycheck to paycheck" (or basically starve). The problem is there's NO paycheck unless you WIN the tournament. 4th place is break even, at best. You can't make money gambling, so that's a dead end too. The only real money, imo, in pool, is the entertainment end. Exhibitions pay well, and there are many people who could be very successful in this venue. There are tons of avenues...colleges, military, poolrooms, bars, corporate events, etc. I've been doing it for 15 years.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

100 % agree here-

and the 5 % where Scott is talking about are players who got the luck to have a REALLY GOOD PAYING SPONSOR !!

None of the Top 10 or even just of the Top 5 can say to win a tournament in a year- the range of top players is amazing high-and everyone can beat everyone...each day. And if you have a look at the price-money? Add 2-3 tournament-price-money for 1st place together and you ll see what Scott and i mean. You won t be able to live from it.

lg from overseas,
Ingo
 
berlowmj2 said:
Would it be possible to declare one's self a professional player & take a tax write off to travel to tournaments in cities one wants to visit & take off travel, lodging, entry fee as tax deductions & thereby reduce the cost of travel?
Click to expand...

Join the UPA
http://upatour.com/join-the-usa-pool-association.php
As a tour member, you are technically a pro.
Expenses related to your profession (including your membership fees) are generally tax deductable.

Steve
 
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