Reasons for stroke errors

M

mantis99

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
While drilling and playing, I notice two main stroke errors, and was looking for some feedback regarding what might cause them. First, I tend to hit the CB approx 1/2 tip to the right of where I aim when I try to hit over a medium speed stroke. I can tell when I am doing the drill where you put the CB on the head spot, hit it off the far rail and try to get it to come back to your tip. I often miss the head spot by approx half a ball, and sometimes more if I am using a hard stroke. I can always tell right when I hit the CB if I have done it. My thought is that I am gripping a little too hard and cocking my wrist causing the butt of the cue to come in and the tip to go out. That, or maybe pulling my elbow in.

Second, I tend to hit the CB approx 1/2 tip below where I aim with a medium to hard stroke. I know that's not a lot, but when shooting long draw shots that require a hard stroke, I sometimes end up launching the CB. It does happen with hard follow shots also. I have hit them using my Jim Rempe ball and a lot of chalk to see where I am actually hitting, and it is usually 1/2 a tip below my aim point. I always heard that too strong of a grip during the shot would elevate the cue, but that, of course is the opposite of what is happening. The only thing I can think of is that I may be hiking my back shoulder towards my ear causing the cue tip to go down.

I am trying to hone my stroke to become a more consistent and accurate function, so any thoughts on what you have seen cause these things before would be appreciated.

Thanks!
 
What helped my stroke is I found the snooker stance gave me a more straighter stroke. The main points that I can give you to try if you don't do it already is make sure you have the four points I. A straight line. Those are the grip, the cue sorta rubbing against your side, chin on cue and bridge. I know I shoot straighter if I can feel the cue against my body during practice strokes

I'd also like you to try the Magic Eye by Joe Tucker. This device really shows you what your doing wrong with your grip hand.
 
I don't think anybody could really tell you your problem without observing your stroke in person. My best advice would be to start with slow speed making sure you are able to hit exactly where you want. Once you get used to that, gradually add speed. If you find you can't hit where you want, adjust your body/wrist/grip/etc. until you are hitting consistently. Don't move up in speed until you are sure your tip is going exactly where you want it to. This is a slow process, but its good in figuring out what works for you because nobody has exactly the same body structure.
 
mantis99 said:
I have hit them using my Jim Rempe ball and a lot of chalk to see where I am actually hitting, and it is usually 1/2 a tip below my aim point. The only thing I can think of is that I may be hiking my back shoulder towards my ear causing the cue tip to go down.
Thanks!
Click to expand...

The draw issue where you're hitting 1/2 a tip below your aim point could be attributed to gripping the cue in the wrong spot for your bridge distance from the cue ball, particularly if you are NOT dropping your elbow before contact.

As you said, about the unwanted side spin it could be a cross over in your stroke, side to side movement of the cue or your grip tightening.

You can learn some amazing things by working with an instructor in your area that uses video analysis. I'm in the Washington DC area, if I were closer I'd be happy to work with you. Try contacting Scott Lee or RandyG they both travel.

Good Luck
 
hola ^^

like Dr9ball already shown up- it s time to spend some time with a really good instructor-and video analysis is a hell of a help!
For me it sounds that you have trouble setting up yourself into correct alignment (what ever, grip, distance/placement etc).
I m very sure someone like Randy or Scott will help you (and remember-i promise this is an investment for a lifetime!).


good luck for you, have, fun.

lg
Ingo
 
You adjust the point of contact on the cue ball by raising or lowering the bridge.

If you are hitting low, you are either flattening your bridge hand or raising the butt of the cue.

Shortening the bridge should reduce the error.
Video your stroke from the side

To straighten your stroke you need visual feedback of how you actually line up the cue on the cue ball

Joe Tucker's Third Eye Stroke Trainer
Video your stroke head on
Put a large mirror at the end of the table

Patronize the Randy G - Scott Lee Instructional juggernaut
 
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M99,

I found most stroke steering problems arise from incorrect eye placement or alignment. Your brain is adjusting for your offset aiming line and compensating by finishing the stroke with english.

A simple fix for your draw stroke may be to see a video put out by Mike Page on his You Tube site. It is http://www.youtube.com/fargobilliards called "Sense and nonsense of cueball draw". It explains what you are probably doing.

Best,
Mike
 
mantis99 said:
While drilling and playing, I notice two main stroke errors, and was looking for some feedback regarding what might cause them. First, I tend to hit the CB approx 1/2 tip to the right of where I aim when I try to hit over a medium speed stroke. I can tell when I am doing the drill where you put the CB on the head spot, hit it off the far rail and try to get it to come back to your tip. I often miss the head spot by approx half a ball, and sometimes more if I am using a hard stroke. I can always tell right when I hit the CB if I have done it. My thought is that I am gripping a little too hard and cocking my wrist causing the butt of the cue to come in and the tip to go out. That, or maybe pulling my elbow in.

Second, I tend to hit the CB approx 1/2 tip below where I aim with a medium to hard stroke. I know that's not a lot, but when shooting long draw shots that require a hard stroke, I sometimes end up launching the CB. It does happen with hard follow shots also. I have hit them using my Jim Rempe ball and a lot of chalk to see where I am actually hitting, and it is usually 1/2 a tip below my aim point. I always heard that too strong of a grip during the shot would elevate the cue, but that, of course is the opposite of what is happening. The only thing I can think of is that I may be hiking my back shoulder towards my ear causing the cue tip to go down.

I am trying to hone my stroke to become a more consistent and accurate function, so any thoughts on what you have seen cause these things before would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Click to expand...



In School we usually see that the two main culprets are:
1. Tighting the grip during the swing.
2. Dropping the elbow during the swing.

With out a video it's tough to see anything.....SPF=randyg
 
Thanks for the replies. I actually have already had a lesson with Scott Lee where I think I got some valuable info. I notice the stroke errors mainly while doing the mother drills actually. They are not large errors, but ones I want to correct. I will have to video myself and see if I can find any specific things. I was just wondering if there were any specific things people had seen cause this to give me ideas for correction. Like I said above, I do think my grip tightness may be causing some of it.
 
mantis99 said:
First, I tend to hit the CB approx 1/2 tip to the right of where I aim when I try to hit over a medium speed stroke.

Second, I tend to hit the CB approx 1/2 tip below where I aim with a medium to hard stroke.
Click to expand...

Both of these can be caused by moving the sholder forward (or body) in order to put greater power into the stroke. Concentrate on leaving the entire body (except for the forearm and wrist) absolutely dead quite durring the whole stroke and follow through.
 
MitchAlsup said:
Both of these can be caused by moving the sholder forward (or body) in order to put greater power into the stroke. Concentrate on leaving the entire body (except for the forearm and wrist) absolutely dead quite durring the whole stroke and follow through.
Click to expand...

I think I may be doing this when I gear up my stroke. I am going to try to video tape myself tonight and look for some of these faults. I have been meaning to do it for a while, but life with three little kids makes that type of thing challenging.
 
DTL said:
Mikjary said:
M99,

(I found most stroke steering problems arise from incorrect eye placement or alignment. Your brain is adjusting for your offset aiming line and compensating by finishing the stroke with english.)

And how does one fix this problem?
Click to expand...

I had multiple little twists and turns that changed my stroke from day to day. I would play great and then slump. Run the rack and miss an easy shot. I couldn't isolate a main problem with my stroke, so I looked for the larger cause instead of trying to fix each individual component.

When you have several issues pop up with your vehicle you don't just start replacing parts and hope for the best. Instead you check things like your ignition switch or your computer which are the sources for controlling the systems that make it run. I used that line of thinking and realized I wasn't looking at the shots correctly for whatever reason on some days, but did good on other days. My pool brain was adjusting and trying to help as much as possible unconciously by making up for my poor alignment.

My personal fix was to visit with Gene Albrecht (GenoMachino) and learn his Perfect Aim principles. I was bouncing back and forth between my eyes to aim and not using only one as the dominant eye. I learned how to consistently get my eyes in the right place. There is a big difference after you see how to do this and what you thought was the right way to look at a shot. It takes all the guess work out of lining up and you start to understand why you were missing easy shots and straight-ins after you just made three or four tough shots.:angry::D

I've worked with it for several months and my stroke is nice and straight. I'm not compensating anymore and wondering what the frig is going on?!?!
Once you get the answer life is good again. Jesse Engle knows what I'm talking about.

Best,
Mike
Click to expand...
 
Line your cue and tip to the bottom of the CB. This should help you to visualize the center of the CB...which is straight up from there to the CB equator...study what that looks like.:thumbup:

Efren often does this.:smile:
 
Nothing beats a good instructor. But if you are the do it yourself type...check out StrokeAnalyzer. All the tools to see whats going on in your stroke and maintain a good stroke once you have it!

www.strokeanalyzer.com
 
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I used to have these same issues, with slight variation.

For the first problem, hitting off center to the side, my problem was involving my shoulder in the stroke. It was a constant right to left hook so I always finished left of center, regardless of speed. I adjusted my aim point (unintentionally) to compensate.

The second issue was due to my keeping my hand forward of perpendicular during my stroke; this caused the tip to be dipping during contact with the cb. When trying to power draw, I would jam the tip into the bed and jump the cueball off the table. I compensated for this by dropping my elbow prior to contact with the ball.

I fixed the first issue, and have mostly corrected the second as well. I still play a little forward of perpendicular because that feels most comfortable, but I have adjusted to it.
 
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i improved my stroke using a slow back swing. I do a pause and then i pull the cue slowly back and struck the cueball, try if it is effective for you.
 
mantis99 said:
I tend to hit the CB approx 1/2 tip to the right of where I aim when I try to hit over a medium speed stroke.
Click to expand...
It is difficult to tell without seeing you in person, but this could be caused by improper alignment of your vision center. It could also be caused by grip tightening, wrist rotation, and/or a flying elbow. FYI, good check-lists for diagnosing stroke flaws can be found here:

mantis99 said:
I tend to hit the CB approx 1/2 tip below where I aim with a medium to hard stroke.
Click to expand...
This is probably due to grip tightening and/or elbow raising during the stroke.

Good luck,
Dave
 
mantis99 said:
I tend to hit the CB approx 1/2 tip to the right of where I aim when I try to hit over a medium speed stroke. I can tell when I am doing the drill where you put the CB on the head spot, hit it off the far rail and try to get it to come back to your tip. I often miss the head spot by approx half a ball, and sometimes more if I am using a hard stroke.
Click to expand...

Wandering around the web I found this comment from a top coach on hitting off the end rail back to the cue tip.

I think it is better to use the baulk line. You don't even need a cue ball. A player will soon find out whether he is cueing straight just by checking the direction of the cue along the baulk line, The cue should be hiding the baulk line from view as you look from above. It is surprising how many players have difficulty doing this accurately.

http://www.snookerscene.co.uk/page.php?id=43
 
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