CTE/Pro One, the lesson.

[lfigueroa]

Lou,

If people would have learned to stay the heck out of a thread, which was started initially with hesitation because of the trolls, then it wouldn't have been an issue in the first place.

When people enter threads for the specific purpose of being negative or getting someone riled up, then I'm going to point the finger at those individuals, not the person who got riled up.

Now with that being said, I'm not going to say Joey is without fault. But, if it wasn't for people trolling to get him riled, it would be a moot point.

This WAS a positive thread. But people can't STAND to see a positive thread regarding CTE/PRO-One for WHATEVER flippin reason. If you need to see imperical scientific evidence that an aiming system is valid, then do this:

LEARN THE SYSTEM YOURSELF
IMPLEMENT CONTROLLED TESTING
ANALYZE THE RESULTS
PUBLISH YOUR RESULTS, POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE

Personally, I give two shits if something is scientifically proven or not, if it's working. I don't care...all I need to know is that it WORKS FOR ME. If JoeyA has found something that works for HIM, let him talk about it. He doesn't need to explain the damned physics.

Finally...this is quoted from the first post in this thread by JoeyA.



Joey just wanted to convey his experiences. They couldn't even let him do that without trying to debunk it because lord forbid someone says something positive about it, (CTE/PRO-One, in case we forgot), without something negative to go along with. It's BS.

The focus of threads migrate -- that is just a forum fact.

I cannot speak for anyone else, but speaking just for me: I am not here just to rile people up, or argue for the sake of arguing. I leave my comments on things that interest me; arguments that succeed, and those that fail. Sometimes I try and leaven by posts with humor. I could care less about rilling Joey. But, sometimes Joey says some pretty outrageous ca-ca and I feel like commenting. If you (or he) don't like my comments pulseeeeeee put me on Ignore, or just blow my posts off. (BTW, this is sound advice for anyone's posts that elevate your blood pressure, whether Dr. Dave's, or PJs', or Fatboy's, or Coco's, or JB's, or any one of many many posters here with a distinctive voice, strong opinions, and/or a grating style of posting, and who could easily get under anyone's skin.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Dagwoodz]

The focus of threads migrate -- that is just a forum fact.

Agreed, they do. But when someone comes on with the purpose of hijacking a thread and discussion that others are enjoying partaking in and/or reading, then the migration isn't what I would call "the normal flow of conversation".

If you (or he) don't like my comments pulseeeeeee put me on Ignore, or just blow my posts off. (BTW, this is sound advice for anyone's posts that elevate your blood pressure, whether Dr. Dave's, or PJs', or Fatboy's, or Coco's, or JB's, or anyone of many many posters here with strong opinions and/or a distinctive style of posting and who could easily get under anyone's skin.

Lou Figueroa

It's a two way street Lou

 

[GetMeThere]

OK, the facts.

I decided to have A CLOSE LOOK AT THIS THREAD. (I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that others verify this for themselves--it really only takes a few minutes, you don't really have to read much at all.)

Here's what I found: MOST of the thread is JoeyA posts about CTE, and posts by others saying "good post" "good idea" "good point." Post #3 is a nasty preemptive from JimS about red-repping people who....well, who he doesn't like.

Then, on page 4 there was a brief and minor misunderstanding about Dr. Dave posting links (this had been discussed on another thread). Dr. Dave was definitely joking about it, and JoeyA seemed to take a little offense...

THEN, on page 5, JoeyA had a TOTAL BLOWUP, and went to his typical MAX-SIZED FONT, with obscenities added. FOR NO APPARENT REASON.

Quite honestly, if I didn't know better I would think this whole thing is the result of a PLAN to try to cause an uproar and blame it on people who are "disrupting JoeyA."

Have a look for yourselves, it takes only a couple of minutes: there's NOTHING going on in this thread that's negative toward JoeyA or CTE UNTIL JoeyA goes into TOTAL MYSTERY BLOWUP MODE on page five.

 

[lfigueroa]

Agreed, they do. But when someone comes on with the purpose of hijacking a thread and discussion that others are enjoying partaking in and/or reading, then the migration isn't what I would call "the normal flow of conversation".



It's a two way street Lou

I don't know how you could prove what anyone's "intentions" are about hijacking a thread, or anything else. Sometimes peripheral issues end up taking center stage for any great number of reasons. Look at any number of threads, that have gone on for any time at all, and you can see this for yourself. And in the case of CTE -- guess what? The Emperor Has No Clothes On, and it's tough (to mix metaphors) to ignore that dead fish on the table in any thread about CTE. Until that issue is resolved, it always, inevitably, will come back to that despite the best efforts (and the current well-orchestrated smear campaign) of the system's supporters, proponents, and marketeers.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Dagwoodz]

OK, the facts.

I decided to have A CLOSE LOOK AT THIS THREAD. (I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that others verify this for themselves--it really only takes a few minutes, you don't really have to read much at all.)

Here's what I found: MOST of the thread is JoeyA posts about CTE, and posts by others saying "good post" "good idea" "good point." Post #3 is a nasty preemptive from JimS about red-repping people who....well, who he doesn't like.

Then, on page 4 there was a brief and minor misunderstanding about Dr. Dave posting links (this had been discussed on another thread). Dr. Dave was definitely joking about it, and JoeyA seemed to take a little offense...

THEN, on page 5, JoeyA had a TOTAL BLOWUP, and went to his typical MAX-SIZED FONT, with obscenities added. FOR NO APPARENT REASON.

Quite honestly, if I didn't know better I would think this whole thing is the result of a PLAN to try to cause an uproar and blame it on people who are "disrupting JoeyA."

Have a look for yourselves, it takes only a couple of minutes: there's NOTHING going on in this thread that's negative toward JoeyA or CTE UNTIL JoeyA goes into TOTAL MYSTERY BLOWUP MODE on page five.

No mystery to me why he blew up. He stated in Post #1 that he didn't want to argue about this. This already lets me know he's defensive about it. Of course when someone's defensive about something he's going to be more apt to not read humor into a remark made by someone else. That's natural. So to say that Joey's blow-up is a "mystery"...I don't agree.

 

[GetMeThere]

No mystery to me why he blew up. He stated in Post #1 that he didn't want to argue about this. This already lets me know he's defensive about it. Of course when someone's defensive about something he's going to be more apt to not read humor into a remark made by someone else. That's natural. So to say that Joey's blow-up is a "mystery"...I don't agree.

So PLEASE POINT OUT THE OFFENDING POSTS! There essentially are none. At one point PJ says "how would you know you're not making subconscious adjustments." Obviously, what that means is if they're SUBCONSCIOUS, then you don't know about it. But JoeyA actually CALMLY ADDRESSED the issue in the next post--no argument, no fighting, and it ended there (on page 3, I think).

Please point out the posts that could or should have caused JoeyA's big blowup on page 5. If you CAN'T point them out, then it has to be admitted all the BIG HUBBUB about this thread is MEANINGLESS.

 

[Dagwoodz]

I don't know how you could prove what anyone's "intentions" are about hijacking a thread, or anything else. Sometimes peripheral issues end up taking center stage for any great number of reasons. Look at any number of threads, that have gone on for any time at all, and you can see this for yourself.

Like I said, I agree that threads take on alternate routes of discussion. But when someone starts a thread by stating that they don't want to argue about the benefits/lack thereof of CTE/PRO-One, but people still come on the thread and begin to do just that, it's a pretty easy jump in logic.

And in the case of CTE -- guess what? The Emperor Has No Clothes On, and it's tough (to mix metaphors) to ignore that dead fish on the table in any thread about CTE. Until that issue is resolved, it always, inevitably, will come back to that despite the best efforts (and the current well-orchestrated smear campaign) of the system's supporters, proponents, and marketeers.

Lou Figueroa

The only smear campaign/mud slinging I see is from CTE opponents, not proponents.

 

[eezbank]

So PLEASE POINT OUT THE OFFENDING POSTS! There essentially are none. At one point PJ says "how would you know you're not making subconscious adjustments." Obviously, what that means is if they're SUBCONSCIOUS, then you don't know about it. But JoeyA actually CALMLY ADDRESSED the issue in the next post--no argument, no fighting, and it ended there (on page 3, I think).

Please point out the posts that could or should have caused JoeyA's big blowup on page 5. If you CAN'T point them out, then it has to be admitted all the BIG HUBBUB about this thread is MEANINGLESS.

Why are you asking Dag to point out why Joey went on tilt? Ask Joey. My guess is he would be happy to tell you.

BTW welcome back! :smile:

 

[lfigueroa]

So PLEASE POINT OUT THE OFFENDING POSTS! There essentially are none. At one point PJ says "how would you know you're not making subconscious adjustments." Obviously, what that means is if they're SUBCONSCIOUS, then you don't know about it. But JoeyA actually CALMLY ADDRESSED the issue in the next post--no argument, no fighting, and it ended there (on page 3, I think).

Please point out the posts that could or should have caused JoeyA's big blowup on page 5. If you CAN'T point them out, then it has to be admitted all the BIG HUBBUB about this thread is MEANINGLESS.

I'll help: it's a smear campaign, pure and simple. Seen it done before -- with a little more sophistication, back in Washington, DC, by pros.

Here, it's simpler: rile the peasants, get everyone to grab a pitchfork and torch, roust the mob and shout you're leaving the willage because of the "naysayers," the "haters," those here that cause all the troubles and woes of the world.

It's an old, even ancient, story.

Lou Figueroa

 

[GetMeThere]

Why are you asking Dag to point out why Joey went on tilt? Ask Joey. My guess is he would be happy to tell you.

My guess is he wouldn't even address the question. And if you have a look for yourself, you will see there is NO justification.

The truth is, all the DRAMA in this thread was started de novo by JoeyA himself, apropos of NOTHING.

 

[GetMeThere]

I'll help: it's a smear campaign, pure and simple. Seen it done before -- with a little more sophistication back in Washington, DC -- by pros.

Here, it's simpler: rile the peasants, get everyone to grab a pitchfork and torch, roust the mob and shout you're leaving the willage because of the "naysayers," the "haters," those here that cause all the troubles and woes of the world.

It's an old, even ancient, story.

Lou Figueroa

Well, I would think it's a bad strategy on a forum, where there's a RECORD of each post made, in order.

 

[peteypooldude]

A few trying to get the thread pulled again
How unusual is this ?

 

[dr_dave]

Pro One is ... a non-mechanical, non-pivoting natural technique for applying Cte to pocket balls. It allows the player to set up a consistent pre-shot routine using Cte without pivoting from two directions.

This makes Pro-One sound more like a "pre-shot routine," and less like an "aiming system," but there is nothing wrong with that. I think everybody can benefit from a good and consistent pre-shot routine. I don't think the same can be said for all "aiming systems."

Every version of CTE I have heard and read about and tried has had a "pivot" (mechanical at the bridge, or in the air). CTE, by definition, is an align-and-"pivot" aiming system that uses the CB-center-to-outer-OB-edge line (the 1/2-ball hit line) as a visual reference. If Pro-One does not involve a "pivot," it sounds different from previous versions of CTE, which is fine.

Thank you for posting a clear and concise description of how you define Pro-One. I look forward to seeing the details, along with examples of how the system is applied in different situations, on Stan's DVD.

I think CTE and Pro-One threads would be more civil and fruitful if we actually had something concrete (with details) to discuss. The "marketing" and "anecdotal" threads are "interesting" (if you like flame wars), but they don't really add to people's understanding of the systems. I and many others are here to learn, share, and help improve understanding of various pool principles and techniques. Maybe this can happen more with CTE and Pro-One after Stan's DVD and Spidey's book come out.

Thanks again,
Dave

 

[eezbank]

My guess is he wouldn't even address the question. And if you have a look for yourself, you will see there is NO justification.

The truth is, all the DRAMA in this thread was started de novo by JoeyA himself, apropos of NOTHING.

I went back and I did look. I see a guy that tried to start a thread about his experience after taking a lesson. He even went as far as to say he had no desire to debate or argue about anything. He just wanted to share his experience.

There are a few people on here that just couldn't let the thread stay on a positive path. They poke at people until they get a reaction. You don't seem to want to acknowledge the needless provocation, just the reaction that it got.

This thread wasn't started to debate anything. It was just Joey trying to share his positive experience. I don't want to have to dig through 50 plus pages of the debate over is CTE accurate or a system at all. I came here to read about JoeyA's progress.

 

[GetMeThere]

There are a few people on here that just couldn't let the thread stay on a positive path. They poke at people until they get a reaction. You don't seem to want to acknowledge the needless provocation, just the reaction that it got.

OK. Which posts?

 

[lfigueroa]

Well, I would think it's a bad strategy on a forum, where there's a RECORD of each post made, in order.

Sometimes the record has a way of getting lost in the shuffle.

Sometimes it's easier to just placate the mob.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Patrick Johnson]

GetMeThere:
The truth is, all the DRAMA in this thread was started de novo by JoeyA himself, apropos of NOTHING.

This is absolutely true. All this drama was started by Joey himself.

eezbank:
There are a few people on here that just couldn't let the thread stay on a positive path.

This is total bull. The "few people" you're talking about are all Joey - he sabotaged his own thread by going nuts about Dr. Dave's links. That was the first sign of trouble. Now it's nothing but piling on by the CTE Choir.

pj
chgo

 

[Dagwoodz]

OK. Which posts?

Ok...get your story straight.

Joey wasn't the first one in this thread to get their panties in a bind, it was Dave. (post #60, page 5). And that was a misunderstanding. However, it turned into more because Dave's reactionary post turned what was pleasant discourse into an argument, which began on page 5.

Do I think Daves post was inflamatory? Not particularly. But if someone is already on edge, I can see how it would be.

 

[eezbank]

OK. Which posts?

I would have to quote mine back to the other thread where Joey asked someone to stop posting links to a page that had nothing to do with his Pro-1 lesson. Right now I don't have time to do that. If you go back you will see that was one thing that set him off. Might not have been the only thing. Like I said before. If you want to know why Joey said or reacted to something ask Joey.

 

[Mikjary]

My guess is he wouldn't even address the question. And if you have a look for yourself, you will see there is NO justification.

The truth is, all the DRAMA in this thread was started de novo by JoeyA himself, apropos of NOTHING.

Why are you even posting in this thread? I know, it's a free country. You and others can say whatever, whenever they feel like it. Your position has been made abundantly clear and doesn't need to be repeated. Neil hit it right on the head when he said it was from a lack of attention. Go away or contribute to by asking questions, or possibly (OMG) offer some words of encouragement.

You guys, plural, keep sticking your fingers in the cage and act like, "What? I didn't do anything!". The smarta$$, boys behaving badly and playing off each other's remarks usually gets a fight started. My advice to you is to leave your keyboard for a little while, go down the street and get a beer. As you sit there start making clever little comments to all the other patrons who will surely think you're as funny as you think you are. See how far you can push your sense of humor on the rest of them, then report back here with your findings.

I welcome a different point of view from a technical standpoint. It's healthy to disagree. Just do it with a goal in mind other than to win an arguement.

Best,
Mike