CTE/Pro One, the lesson.

[BRKNRUN]

Kenm, if that is working for you, I am thrilled. (Sincerely)

Why wouldn't you be thrilled for someone else who is having success with CTE/Pro One?

BTW, I agree that finding the center of the cue ball is a key part of playing well.

I never said I was not thrilled by someone else having success with it....I am thrilled enough that I have been been experimenting with the method....Are others not allowed to express thier findings of any methods without being cast in a negative light??

I would bet that I have logged more hours experimenting with various forms of CTE than many that use the method....perhaps even you.

I think you might be triggered on the "defensive" right now Joey....I never said that I was NOT thrilled with anyone that uses CTE....and I am not sure why I am being questioned.

It was just an "observation" of my own from my own research and study of CTE and various related methods.......CTE may be the method someone uses to get those "fundamental" benefits...I said they are not bad benefits of the method...However...I don't think CTE is "required" to gain them.

Please don't cast me on either side of this CTE fence.....I am not on any one side of the fence......I am on the fence......using it to pratice keeping my stroke striaght......:wink:

 

[JoeyA]

Joey,

I have never claimed to know what Pro-One is; although, I do know a fair amount about several common versions of CTE.

I have read everything posted about Pro-One, and I have gotten some info from Stan and Spidey over the phone and via e-mail, but I still don't have a clue about the missing details of Pro-One that allow it to be used consistently and effectively for a wide range of shots. I honestly hope Stan's DVD will change that. I am certainly looking forward to viewing it, and I honestly hope its adds a lot of new insight and information to the CTE landscape, which has been a quite barren to date (in terms of meaningful information and details).

I hope you or others don't perceive this as disrespectful or mocking. That certainly is not my intent.

Regards,
Dave

EVERY one of my posts and threads have been about CTE/PRO ONE which is what STan Shuffett teaches, yet you and others paint with the broad brush and make assumptions bout what it is that I am talking about.

Personally, I got far more out of the one on one lessons than I could with a video.

Some of your posts are and were disrespectful and mocking.

We will all see what your intensions are when the video comes out.

In meantime, life goes on.

Got a tournament to go to this afternoon where I will be using CTE/Pro One EXCLUSIVELY. :thumbup:

C ya,

 

[JoeyA]

I never said I was not thrilled by someone else having success with it....I am thrilled enough that I have been been experimenting with the method....Are others not allowed to express thier findings of any methods without being cast in a negative light??

I would bet that I have logged more hours experimenting with various forms of CTE than many that use the method....perhaps even you.

I think you might be triggered on the "defensive" right now Joey....I never said that I was NOT thrilled with anyone that uses CTE....and I am not sure why I am being questioned.

It was just an "observation" of my own from my own research and study of CTE and various related methods.......CTE may be the method someone uses to get those "fundamental" benefits...I said they are not bad benefits of the method...However...I don't think CTE is "required" to gain them.

Please don't cast me on either side of this CTE fence.....I am not on any one side of the fence......I am on the fence......using it to pratice keeping my stroke striaght......:wink:

You may be one of the smarter ones. :wink:

 

[dr_dave]

Joey,

I have never claimed to know what Pro-One is; although, I do know a fair amount about several common versions of CTE.

I have read everything posted about Pro-One, and I have gotten some info from Stan and Spidey over the phone and via e-mail, but I still don't have a clue about the missing details of Pro-One that allow it to be used consistently and effectively for a wide range of shots. I honestly hope Stan's DVD will change that. I am certainly looking forward to viewing it, and I honestly hope its adds a lot of new insight and information to the CTE landscape, which has been a quite barren to date (in terms of meaningful information and details).

I hope you or others don't perceive this as disrespectful or mocking. That certainly is not my intent.

EVERY one of my posts and threads have been about CTE/PRO ONE which is what STan Shuffett teaches, yet you and others paint with the broad brush and make assumptions bout what it is that I am talking about.

Joey,

I haven't made any assumptions about what you are talking about, because I don't have a clue what you are talking about, because Pro-One has yet to be defined or described clearly, completely, or meaningfully on this or any other forum, or in any currently available instructional article, website, book, DVD, or online video (to my knowledge).

Now, when you include "CTE" in the title or a thread, or when you associate "Pro-One" or Stan with CTE, then a lot of "baggage" and "history" will "be in the room" with you. Again, I'm not claiming "Pro-One" is a version of CTE, but it seems like you have. If Pro-One is similar to common versions of CTE, then the information on my CTE resource and benefits of align-and-pivot aiming systems pages are relevant. If not, then they are not. Again, I won't know until I view Stan's DVD, which I very much look forward to.

I personally think we should put all of these types of threads on hold until meaningful information is actually available for discussion.

Regards,
Dave

 

[champ2107]

The truth ALWAYS "works," Joey. And the truth is that you have posted FAR nastier stuff than those you charge with bad behavior--and apparently all because they "disagree with you" about the value of an aiming system.

I looked at all the posts here, and I don't see any nastiness coming from Lou, and a LOT coming from you. Just the facts.

From my understanding of the rules, disagreements are allowed on threads. (and, by my reading of them, the sorts of personal attacks and obscenities you have handed out are NOT allowed).

If you want to relate your experiences with CTE in a venue that prohibits "thread-type" responses and disagreements, then why not do blog posts on your experiences with CTE instead of forum posts?

Just an idea that might make the experience less upsetting for you...

Hasn't this guy been banned a couple times already in his first two months on AZ?

 

[lfigueroa]

Your humor is perverted. You enjoy needling other people. That's sick, imo.

I think your hypocritical phony self-righteousness is sick, but to each their own

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

In the past I have been reluctant to speak out against people who occasionally make valuable contributions to the forum, simply because I didn't want to add additional strife to the forum.

Those days are over. If you needle me, you're going to get it back and then some. Same goes for every person that ridicules or attempts to besmirch respected posters good name.

Wow. Well. Gee. We'll all have to watch our P's and Q's NOW, won't we

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

If he has problems ligning up center CB...I would imagine that he would very likely also have a "crooked" cue as well.....(meaning not stright along the shot line through the CB)...If he does not have both of these "fundamentals" in the first place...how could any alignment method work on a consistent basis?

From reading about all this CTE and "benefits of" I am starting to realize something.

I have seen comments like....(no I am not going to go "dig" them up..you will just have to trust me that I have seen them)

CTE makes shooters more aware (and the importance) of center CB

CTE forces/allows shooters to have a consistent view/alignment method

There are others...but these are two prime examples...They are not bad benefits of the method....However....these are examples of very important fundamentals that obviously have been previously ignored or overlooked by the shooter making grand claims how CTE improved thier shotmaking.

One of the very first and most important fundamentals a player I thought was supposed to learn is center CB...aka the stop shot....shotmaking and "cueball control" is based from a foundation of center CB and the "stop shot".

Consistency....aka...Pre shot routine was another....kind of like consistency leads to consitency.

Neither one of these "fundamentals" require that you learn/use CTE....If you learn/practice them as a "stand alone fundamental" your shotmakeing and CB control will improve by leaps and bounds....no matter what alignment method you use.

With all these alignment threads....I have been trying many different methods of late for aim....What hapened is I was so distracted by the methods that I forgot those basic fundamentals and my shotmaking suffered.......I have since ditched all the other methods and circled back to my own super duper mongo alignment method focused more again on proper fundamentals and wouldn't you know...my shotmakeing is improving again.

You make some great points and your last is one of the problems I have with systems that have you aligning for aim vs aligning as a part of a consistent PRS. I know that when I start with all the pivoting my stroke goes right into the toilet.

Lou Figueroa
not too far
from normal

 

[Neil]

What you mean to say is these are the primary people who constantly challenge you and the rest of the CTE Choir singers to say something substantive and objective about CTE (we already know you "really like it!").

And, unlike you, none of them has ever had to resort to making up a "mob" so they can whine about feeling persecuted by it.

pj
chgo

I may get banned for this post, but I really don't care anymore. This place has become somewhere that is no longer fun, but just somewhere filled with strife. I don't need it.

I have shared a lot of knowledge on this forum. Due to you and a few others, that isn't likely to be happening anymore. Blackjack shared a TON of great info on here, and he got ran off. I came on here to share some info, and thereby help others in their struggle with this game. This forum used to have a lot of knowledge shared on here. Now, it is rare to find a post about it. I will say that Dr. Dave has been very good in sharing knowledge overall. However, in the CTE threads, well, basically Dave, you have your head up your arse. Why you have chosen to post on CTE the way you have, when your main goal on here is to share knowledge, is beyond me.

You say you want to set the record straight on CTE, but you don't even know just what it is. Then, wouldn't you be better off to learn what it is before saying something negative about it??

Without exception, those that are ruining the forums by constantly having to chime in on the CTE threads, all have some kind of inferiority problem. They have some sick need to belittle things that they don't know about, and refuse to learn about. Yet, they need the attention, and they can't get it in a positive way, so they resort to being negative. They don't even care that the attention they so crave is that most think they are being an ass. Just so they get the attention.

I brought up the same points last week that Joey has. I'm sick of it. I'm sick of trying to help people, just to have a few constantly chime in and belittle what has been said. Your goal isn't to help people at all, especially Get Me There, who has NEVER contributed anything worthwhile to this forum. Pat has, many times. But in this case, you also are way out of bounds.

This forum needs to get back to helping people in this game. If you don't know what the heck you are talking about, then either ask a question, or shut the heck up! There are many areas that I say a lot about on here. And, there are more areas that I don't say anything because I am just not sure about that area. Others here need to learn to do the same.

By driving off the good posters, this forum becomes less and less of a place that anyone wants to be. Right now, this is the best forum, it's the best because it has no real competition. The competition has been run into the ground by people that act the same way some on here are now acting.

NONE of the problems on here recently have come about from people having a different opinion. There is nothing wrong with that. It has all stemmed from some wanting to have an opinion without knowing what they are even talking about. And, some sick need to want to see CTE fail. I say that, because some posters on here have to constantly chime in, with nothing to say about the topic, other than negative. Yet, they don't have a clue, and have no desire to have a clue what it is. Those people aren't trying to save or benefit the forum or any player. They soley want to sow discord. And, they should be removed from here.

Some of you sound like a bunch of school kid bullies. Then, when others get together to take care of you, you want to start crying about our mob mentality. You want to dish it out, but when it comes back to bite you in the ass, you want to go crying about it. If these conversations where happening in person, and you acted the same way, you would be getting a lesson in how to act with people. But on here, you feel free to be as big an ass as possible. No matter how many or how many times some of you are told, you don't change. That means only one thing, you don't give a flying F. what anyone else really thinks about you, just so they do think about you.

It's not up to me obviously, but if it was, P.J., Duckie, Dr. Dave, Lou, you would all be barred from any CTE threads until you learned something about it. Get Me There, I would just get him there, and not here.

It's totally up to you guys on what kind of forum you want this to be. A number of people have already left, some have looked at it and said they want no part of AZB, and a number of other good posters are seriously considering leaving, myself included. If that's what you guys want, just keep it up. If not, then now is a good time to change how you respond to threads.

I know this hasn't been a "good" response. But, I had to get it off my chest. And, will be my last say on this subject for a while.

 

[Dagwoodz]

WTF

I was actually enjoying reading about JoeyA's experience with CTE/Pro-one until this thread, just like others, broke down to flippin name calling. It's pathetic that a topic like this has to get so spun out of control. If JoeyA wants to convey his experience with CTE to the forum at large, that's his right to.

Of course, with something new that is working FOR HIM, he's going to espouse the positive benefits that he sees.

ANYONE ELSE WOULD AS WELL.

To redicule JoeyA for this, to try and poke holes in his story because it's:

A) not something you agree with
B) not something you fully understand
C) just like getting a rise out of other forum members
D) any combination of the above

is juvenile and plain disrespectful. If you believe that CTE/PRO-one is a farce, start another thread. Don't barge into a thread that plenty of people were enjoying, and turn it into an ELEMENTARY SCHOOL argument.

As far as why I'm coming out and saying all this:

Yes, I consider JoeyA a friend.
No, I don't use CTE.
Am I interested in learning more about it? Yes.

I've kept my mouth shut during all of these aiming system threads because I didn't want to get into the middle of it. Now I see a friend, and someone who normally isn't easily riled up, spittin angry in the middle of a great thread that he started. All because people have a lack of respect. (IMHO, because lord forbid this be taken as me espousing factual information)

Why in the world people would discourage others from learning something is beyond me. When I learn something, and it doesn't work, I still LEARNED SOMETHING. I learned a way, that for me, doesn't work.

If you're going to try and debunk something, start a different thread. Don't hijack someone else's thread because you can.

 

[lfigueroa]

I may get banned for this post, but I really don't care anymore. This place has become somewhere that is no longer fun, but just somewhere filled with strife. I don't need it.

I have shared a lot of knowledge on this forum. Due to you and a few others, that isn't likely to be happening anymore. Blackjack shared a TON of great info on here, and he got ran off. I came on here to share some info, and thereby help others in their struggle with this game. This forum used to have a lot of knowledge shared on here. Now, it is rare to find a post about it. I will say that Dr. Dave has been very good in sharing knowledge overall. However, in the CTE threads, well, basically Dave, you have your head up your arse. Why you have chosen to post on CTE the way you have, when your main goal on here is to share knowledge, is beyond me.

You say you want to set the record straight on CTE, but you don't even know just what it is. Then, wouldn't you be better off to learn what it is before saying something negative about it??

Without exception, those that are ruining the forums by constantly having to chime in on the CTE threads, all have some kind of inferiority problem. They have some sick need to belittle things that they don't know about, and refuse to learn about. Yet, they need the attention, and they can't get it in a positive way, so they resort to being negative. They don't even care that the attention they so crave is that most think they are being an ass. Just so they get the attention.

I brought up the same points last week that Joey has. I'm sick of it. I'm sick of trying to help people, just to have a few constantly chime in and belittle what has been said. Your goal isn't to help people at all, especially Get Me There, who has NEVER contributed anything worthwhile to this forum. Pat has, many times. But in this case, you also are way out of bounds.

This forum needs to get back to helping people in this game. If you don't know what the heck you are talking about, then either ask a question, or shut the heck up! There are many areas that I say a lot about on here. And, there are more areas that I don't say anything because I am just not sure about that area. Others here need to learn to do the same.

By driving off the good posters, this forum becomes less and less of a place that anyone wants to be. Right now, this is the best forum, it's the best because it has no real competition. The competition has been run into the ground by people that act the same way some on here are now acting.

NONE of the problems on here recently have come about from people having a different opinion. There is nothing wrong with that. It has all stemmed from some wanting to have an opinion without knowing what they are even talking about. And, some sick need to want to see CTE fail. I say that, because some posters on here have to constantly chime in, with nothing to say about the topic, other than negative. Yet, they don't have a clue, and have no desire to have a clue what it is. Those people aren't trying to save or benefit the forum or any player. They soley want to sow discord. And, they should be removed from here.

Some of you sound like a bunch of school kid bullies. Then, when others get together to take care of you, you want to start crying about our mob mentality. You want to dish it out, but when it comes back to bite you in the ass, you want to go crying about it. If these conversations where happening in person, and you acted the same way, you would be getting a lesson in how to act with people. But on here, you feel free to be as big an ass as possible. No matter how many or how many times some of you are told, you don't change. That means only one thing, you don't give a flying F. what anyone else really thinks about you, just so they do think about you.

It's not up to me obviously, but if it was, P.J., Duckie, Dr. Dave, Lou, you would all be barred from any CTE threads until you learned something about it. Get Me There, I would just get him there, and not here.

It's totally up to you guys on what kind of forum you want this to be. A number of people have already left, some have looked at it and said they want no part of AZB, and a number of other good posters are seriously considering leaving, myself included. If that's what you guys want, just keep it up. If not, then now is a good time to change how you respond to threads.

I know this hasn't been a "good" response. But, I had to get it off my chest. And, will be my last say on this subject for a while.

You must be reading a different forum than I am

I see all kinds of great discussions from tournament promoters asking for input (and getting it), discussions about handicaps, and practice techniques, to discussions about cues, and tips, and balance points, and cue makers and on and on. You can read original stories here, read about old time pool halls, trip/tournament reports, and even endless threads about funny pictures and action in Des Moines

And in a few threads you have some folks trying to sell a highly questionable aiming system that has yet to pass scientific scrutiny, despite the protest of a few that it is perfectly valid from a geometric point of view and some (many) aren't buying into it.

I like to think there's something for everyone on AZ

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I was actually enjoying reading about JoeyA's experience with CTE/Pro-one until this thread, just like others, broke down to flippin name calling.

You should be addressing Joey about his recent posts re: the latest and most inflammatory name calling.

Lou Figueroa
if you need a link...

 

[justadub]

And what is respectful about what Joey has recently written?

Is it just because he's "riled" that he gets a free pass on the "belittling, arguing, and arrogant and/or condescending attitude" part? Joey is a former Marine and I doubt he could get so "riled" as to lose control over something so trivial. Maybe it's just because he's every bit as disrespectful and argumentative and arrogant and condescending as those he's pointing his finger at.

Don't turn a blind eye to what he and several others are posting and how they are posting it.

Lou Figueroa

I think if you look at my statement again, you'll see that I didn't indicate anyone in particular in my indictment of some of the posts here on AZB. That has been my position every time this comes up. As with our wonderful political process, it is true here as well. People on both sides of the aisle have been guilty of over-reacting, of being arrogant and condescending, of hurling insults freely, and arguing for arguments sake.

People become defensive easily. I understand this. It leads to many of the over-reactions that occur. But sadly it is the general poor attitude of some people that cause much of this strife. I'll say it again, arguing for the sake of arguing. Stirring the stuff. It's how some people get their jollies. Quite sad.

Sadly that poor attitude will drive people away from these forums. Many who have never posted here before, and are surfing on by, checking things out. It's a damned shame that someone's first experience with AZB could be one of these threads. They might never venture further, into the many threads that don't contain this type of playground foolishness.

And we all lose when that happens. Kumbyah, my butt.

It's time some folks acted their age, and didn't sit here playing keyboard commando. "I'm smarter than you and I'll prove it." Nyah, nyah.

Sheesh.

 

[lfigueroa]

I may get banned for this post, but I really don't care anymore. This place has become somewhere that is no longer fun, but just somewhere filled with strife. I don't need it.

I have shared a lot of knowledge on this forum. Due to you and a few others, that isn't likely to be happening anymore. Blackjack shared a TON of great info on here, and he got ran off. I came on here to share some info, and thereby help others in their struggle with this game. This forum used to have a lot of knowledge shared on here. Now, it is rare to find a post about it. I will say that Dr. Dave has been very good in sharing knowledge overall. However, in the CTE threads, well, basically Dave, you have your head up your arse. Why you have chosen to post on CTE the way you have, when your main goal on here is to share knowledge, is beyond me.

You say you want to set the record straight on CTE, but you don't even know just what it is. Then, wouldn't you be better off to learn what it is before saying something negative about it??

Without exception, those that are ruining the forums by constantly having to chime in on the CTE threads, all have some kind of inferiority problem. They have some sick need to belittle things that they don't know about, and refuse to learn about. Yet, they need the attention, and they can't get it in a positive way, so they resort to being negative. They don't even care that the attention they so crave is that most think they are being an ass. Just so they get the attention.

I brought up the same points last week that Joey has. I'm sick of it. I'm sick of trying to help people, just to have a few constantly chime in and belittle what has been said. Your goal isn't to help people at all, especially Get Me There, who has NEVER contributed anything worthwhile to this forum. Pat has, many times. But in this case, you also are way out of bounds.

This forum needs to get back to helping people in this game. If you don't know what the heck you are talking about, then either ask a question, or shut the heck up! There are many areas that I say a lot about on here. And, there are more areas that I don't say anything because I am just not sure about that area. Others here need to learn to do the same.

By driving off the good posters, this forum becomes less and less of a place that anyone wants to be. Right now, this is the best forum, it's the best because it has no real competition. The competition has been run into the ground by people that act the same way some on here are now acting.

NONE of the problems on here recently have come about from people having a different opinion. There is nothing wrong with that. It has all stemmed from some wanting to have an opinion without knowing what they are even talking about. And, some sick need to want to see CTE fail. I say that, because some posters on here have to constantly chime in, with nothing to say about the topic, other than negative. Yet, they don't have a clue, and have no desire to have a clue what it is. Those people aren't trying to save or benefit the forum or any player. They soley want to sow discord. And, they should be removed from here.

Some of you sound like a bunch of school kid bullies. Then, when others get together to take care of you, you want to start crying about our mob mentality. You want to dish it out, but when it comes back to bite you in the ass, you want to go crying about it. If these conversations where happening in person, and you acted the same way, you would be getting a lesson in how to act with people. But on here, you feel free to be as big an ass as possible. No matter how many or how many times some of you are told, you don't change. That means only one thing, you don't give a flying F. what anyone else really thinks about you, just so they do think about you.

It's not up to me obviously, but if it was, P.J., Duckie, Dr. Dave, Lou, you would all be barred from any CTE threads until you learned something about it. Get Me There, I would just get him there, and not here.

It's totally up to you guys on what kind of forum you want this to be. A number of people have already left, some have looked at it and said they want no part of AZB, and a number of other good posters are seriously considering leaving, myself included. If that's what you guys want, just keep it up. If not, then now is a good time to change how you respond to threads.

I know this hasn't been a "good" response. But, I had to get it off my chest. And, will be my last say on this subject for a while.

One udder thing: why is it that only a small group of CTE advocates are complaining about leaving? It's a couple of threads here and there and you guys have your own private yahoo CTE group where you can get all the hugs and kisses you want. If you don't like what some are posting, use the ignore button, or just ignore the person and don't respond, read all the great threads here that don't offend your delicate sensibilities, or grow a pair.

Or here's an idea:

Why don't you engage in a logical defense of your cherished system? The problem is you don't have the proofs but want everybody to believe "it works." That's not good enough for some and often results in well deserved ridicule.

Now go on: you all go get your pitch forks and torches and clamor for the ousting of the group that is the source of all your woes. I'm sure the trains will be pulling up any second now for a trip to the camps.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Johnnyt]

I believe that if these product review types of threads were put in the Product Review Forum where they belong that most of the problems would go away on the main forum. We went through the same thing with Perfect Aim. Johnnyt

 

[lfigueroa]

I believe that if these product review types of threads were put in the Product Review Forum where they belong that most of the problems would go away on the main forum. We went through the same thing with Perfect Aim. Johnnyt

Great idea!

Joey: you now know where to post future hype

Lou Figueroa
finally:
peace
in the valley

 

[Mikjary]

Joey,

I haven't seen Stan's DVD yet, so I don't know whether or not any of the important issues illustrated and described on my CTE resource page apply to Pro-One or not. Based on everything I have seen and heard so far, it seems like Pro-One is similar to other versions of CTE in many ways, but I won't know for sure until I see Stan's DVD. At this time, I still don't really know what Pro-One is, and until we have a concrete and informative explanation for what Pro-One is, detailing how it works, no debate or mockery concerning Pro-One is really meaningful or helpful, IMO.

Regards,
Dave

Pro One is not a version of Cte. It is Cte. It is a non-mechanical, non-pivoting natural technique for applying Cte to pocket balls. It allows the player to set up a consistent pre-shot routine using Cte without pivoting from two directions.

When using Pro One your eyes are placed in the correct position to see the shot which coincidently is what Perfect Aim does. This a benefit that hasn't been mentioned a lot, but you will be using the same alignment that Geno teaches. You will end up learning how to "see" the shot despite what your eyes told you in the past.

Best,
Mike

 

[eezbank]

One udder thing: why is it that only a small group of CTE advocates are complaining about leaving? It's a couple of threads here and there and you guys have your own private yahoo CTE group where you can get all the hugs and kisses you want. If you don't like what some are posting, use the ignore button, or just ignore the person and don't respond, read all the great threads here that don't offend your delicate sensibilities, or grow a pair.

Or here's an idea:

Why don't you engage in a logical defense of your cherished system? The problem is you don't have the proofs but want everybody to believe "it works." That's not good enough for some and often results in well deserved ridicule.

Now go on: you all go get your pitch forks and torches and clamor for the ousting of the group that is the source of all your woes. I'm sure the trains will be pulling up any second now for a trip to the camps.

Lou Figueroa

Do you really think anyone came into this thread to do battle with you over an idea? It's a thread about a mans experience. Most of us aren't on here to watch you ridicule anything. Why are you doing this Lou? I've never seen you act this childish.

 

[lfigueroa]

Do you really think anyone came into this thread to do battle with you over an idea? It's a thread about a mans experience. Most of us aren't on here to watch you ridicule anything. Why are you doing this Lou? I've never seen you act this childish.

You must have missed the point that I was responding to Neil's post.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Dagwoodz]

Lou,

If people would have learned to stay the heck out of a thread, which was started initially with hesitation because of the trolls, then it wouldn't have been an issue in the first place.

When people enter threads for the specific purpose of being negative or getting someone riled up, then I'm going to point the finger at those individuals, not the person who got riled up.

Now with that being said, I'm not going to say Joey is without fault. But, if it wasn't for people trolling to get him riled, it would be a moot point.

This WAS a positive thread. But people can't STAND to see a positive thread regarding CTE/PRO-One for WHATEVER flippin reason. If you need to see imperical scientific evidence that an aiming system is valid, then do this:

LEARN THE SYSTEM YOURSELF
IMPLEMENT CONTROLLED TESTING
ANALYZE THE RESULTS
PUBLISH YOUR RESULTS, POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE

Personally, I give two shits if something is scientifically proven or not, if it's working. I don't care...all I need to know is that it WORKS FOR ME. If JoeyA has found something that works for HIM, let him talk about it. He doesn't need to explain the damned physics.

Finally...this is quoted from the first post in this thread by JoeyA.

Before I get started, let me set the mood.

I'm not interested in arguing with anyone about anything.

This thread is about my personal experience with CTE/Pro One and the lesson that I got from Stan Shuffett.

The reason for this thread is to shed some light on what I have gone through and experienced while using CTE/Pro One.

Joey just wanted to convey his experiences. They couldn't even let him do that without trying to debunk it because lord forbid someone says something positive about it, (CTE/PRO-One, in case we forgot), without something negative to go along with. It's BS.