I pity myself for buying from ipitythefool

I

iralee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Forum members,

I had a bad experience during a transaction I conducted some weeks ago with this poster, ipitythefool, a Turkish man selling billiard items on az.

Since he apparently has decided to do more selling on our beloved forum, I felt compelled to warn others about my frustrating dealings with Mel Simsek (aka ipitythefool) from Turkey. Basically, he took my $100 via PayPal, sent me bad DVDs, and then left me high and dry.

I ordered several videos that were represented to me as original DVDs (complete with photos of original DVD case cover art) - several of which I already owned, but sought them with the intention of gifting them (including the awesome Caudron Balkline DVDs from Kozoom). At the time, I even offered to pay a bit more than he was asking (in order to get first dibs at them). He was extremely enthusiastic and friendly with me and offered to throw in a few amateur-produced pro-player 3c videos.

I paid him without delay via paypal as soon as he requested it. Once he recieved the money, he became slow to respond to my messages. He then took his time (many days) before he sent them out - said he was busy at work. After more delay, he produced a tracking # for me, but I was unable to track any packages with the number. Weeks later, his package finally showed up. I was appalled to discover that he kept the original media and just sent me homemade bootlegs with handwritten scribbles on them. Several of them I couldn't get to play anywhere - and I generally know my way around video media. Ones that did play were incomplete (i.e. he sent only copied one disc from what was supposed to be a 2-disc set (Caudron DVD)). The shoddy copies that played at all were such bad bootlegs. They didn't even have the original DVD menus on them - since they were pirated copies of "protected" Kozoom discs, they were produced as "captures" of someone pushing through the menus and pressing play on selected parts of the original media. Not only did I miss out on any special features and such, the bootlegger didn't even take care to play the entire program!

I contacted him to report my dissatisfaction. I told Mr. Simsek that I wanted to send back the broken/incomplete DVDs and get a partial refund. I was actually still willing to pay for the amateur 3c videos he sent me (which were essentially someone with a handheld in taping of a pro-match during a tournament). Again, he was slow to respond and then started telling me about the "friend" he was selling for - a person he would never identify to me. Mr. Simsek told me that he was selling the DVDs for a "friend" of his who already has been paid and his "friend" did not want to refund my money because he was afraid that I would pirate HIS pirated videos - and that I should understand his position. I reminded him about the DVDs that were incomplete and/or broken, etc - he wasn't very interested in hearing about it. He wanted to sell me more "handheld" matches. He then offered to refund me $20 that he claimed was his take from his "friend". I told him that the whole thing was utterly ridiculous and that I didn't appreciate the good-cop bad-cop runaround. He stopped responding to my messages.

A bit frustrated, I tried to resolve my issues with him via PayPal. Unfortunately for me, Mr. Simsek had successfully delayed the transaction just-outside PayPal's protection policy and declined to help me.

This was weeks ago and I have remained silent about it, until I noticed that he has returned - posting solicitations for more international "customers"...

Let the buyer beware. I should have known better than to trust a Turkish DVD salesman on "the Internets"...

Still, I hope he comes around. I suppose that if Mr. Simsek ever decides to right this with me, he can do so by contacting me here.

-Ira
 
Did the RIGHT thing!

iralee said:
Forum members,

I had a bad experience during a transaction I conducted some weeks ago with this poster, ipitythefool, a Turkish man selling billiard items on az.

Since he apparently has decided to do more selling on our beloved forum, I felt compelled to warn others about my frustrating dealings with Mel Simsek (aka ipitythefool) from Turkey. Basically, he took my $100 via PayPal, sent me bad DVDs, and then left me high and dry.

I ordered several videos that were represented to me as original DVDs (complete with photos of original DVD case cover art) - several of which I already owned, but sought them with the intention of gifting them (including the awesome Caudron Balkline DVDs from Kozoom). At the time, I even offered to pay a bit more than he was asking (in order to get first dibs at them). He was extremely enthusiastic and friendly with me and offered to throw in a few amateur-produced pro-player 3c videos.

I paid him without delay via paypal as soon as he requested it. Once he recieved the money, he became slow to respond to my messages. He then took his time (many days) before he sent them out - said he was busy at work. After more delay, he produced a tracking # for me, but I was unable to track any packages with the number. Weeks later, his package finally showed up. I was appalled to discover that he kept the original media and just sent me homemade bootlegs with handwritten scribbles on them. Several of them I couldn't get to play anywhere - and I generally know my way around video media. Ones that did play were incomplete (i.e. he sent only copied one disc from what was supposed to be a 2-disc set (Caudron DVD)). The shoddy copies that played at all were such bad bootlegs. They didn't even have the original DVD menus on them - since they were pirated copies of "protected" Kozoom discs, they were produced as "captures" of someone pushing through the menus and pressing play on selected parts of the original media. Not only did I miss out on any special features and such, the bootlegger didn't even take care to play the entire program!

I contacted him to report my dissatisfaction. I told Mr. Simsek that I wanted to send back the broken/incomplete DVDs and get a partial refund. I was actually still willing to pay for the amateur 3c videos he sent me (which were essentially someone with a handheld in taping of a pro-match during a tournament). Again, he was slow to respond and then started telling me about the "friend" he was selling for - a person he would never identify to me. Mr. Simsek told me that he was selling the DVDs for a "friend" of his who already has been paid and his "friend" did not want to refund my money because he was afraid that I would pirate HIS pirated videos - and that I should understand his position. I reminded him about the DVDs that were incomplete and/or broken, etc - he wasn't very interested in hearing about it. He wanted to sell me more "handheld" matches. He then offered to refund me $20 that he claimed was his take from his "friend". I told him that the whole thing was utterly ridiculous and that I didn't appreciate the good-cop bad-cop runaround. He stopped responding to my messages.

A bit frustrated, I tried to resolve my issues with him via PayPal. Unfortunately for me, Mr. Simsek had successfully delayed the transaction just-outside PayPal's protection policy and declined to help me.

This was weeks ago and I have remained silent about it, until I noticed that he has returned - posting solicitations for more international "customers"...

Let the buyer beware. I should have known better than to trust a Turkish DVD salesman on "the Internets"...

Still, I hope he comes around. I suppose that if Mr. Simsek ever decides to right this with me, he can do so by contacting me here.

-Ira
Click to expand...

Ira; This is absolutely NO surprise to ME! The way this guy has conduted himself on this forum is typical of his username. Anyone that never reveals thier TRUE indentity in any post (IMHO), has something to hide!

This guy cut into me like a hot knife through butter for NO reason at all, until I challenged him to play for $$$ in my last post, he seems to be MIA, and for the better I'm sure, for all here!

I know sometimes producing and selling items on the internet can have snags now and then, but to stop communication between the two parties is just simply BAD business, and doesn't do anything for our struggling game.

You did the right thing by ALERTING the viewers to this kind of business practice! :thumbup:

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

http://mr3cushion.com
 
Ira,
Thank you for posting your experience with ipitythefool. Would you mind please posting it in the buyer/seller transaction report sticky, in the for sale section of AZB, as well? I would also urge you to post to his itrader, as this is the easiest way to alert others. Everyone really needs to be informed. As Bill stated, the guy has some issues. I'm not sure if it's a lost in translation thing or not. He can be quite caustic and offensive to people. Apparently being helpful and honest is beyond this person.
 
Mr. Lee,
Since you preferred to openly bring it out to "public": In that case, I will tell my side of the story; there is another side to the coin, another mouth to tell the very same story.

And, it is ironic. I don't check this site very often (there is hardly any carom action/carom talk in this mainly pool talk website, or possibly the only main US carom talk website/forum, anyways. Sometimes, I may not check this site for months, just to find people "talking" trash :)
And it appears as "Mr 3 cushion" (Jesus Christ, players of your low caliber call themselves Mr. 3 cushion? I have seen you play, sir: they would eat you alive at 3 cushion game here! Do you really think that I was scared from you, hence I did not get back to whatever internet shitting contest that you have going on? And I went like a hot knife on butter on you for no reason? You called the Theory cue a knockoff out of the blue, a cue which was made by teacher of S. Sayginer. And as for you winning a handicap game on Semih, and you bragging about all your life? Sir, I realize, you deserve no respect, even though I gave you such respect at first place, even though in a joking way, perhaps my words were of high intellect for you to grasp the joke, rivalry and respect to you, all at the same time. I apologize, but you can not even be the pinkie finger of Semih. This is coming from a person who actually doesn't like Semih that much) and worse, just to find some so-called-friendly ones like Jamie to in a sense, back stab you in a whim. I thought you were better, Jamie. I did not send you/sell you dvds, which I could, for the reasons below)

(As a side note, few members did contact me on this forum, just so that I could purchase cues from a local cuemaker here and also for other cue stuff, grips etc. I have been sent money and I shipped the cues in return. Free of charge. I did not ask for anything. I do hope, such members will come out and mention it now, for the least, as part of their thank you)

As for the story:

One of a relatively better known players in the local billiard community did contact me to advertise the dvd's that he makes (He goes to all major world cup events, he sets his camera and does record them, and in return sells them for reasonable amounts around 10 bucks)

Mr. Lee contacted me, he said he was ready to pay. I told him to not pay yet, as I do not have the dvds. I stated, I would rather request the paypal payment when I would be perfectly ready to ship. (Historically, I like to ship the same or very next day thereinafter receiving payment, as in my 100% excellent feedback Ebay account)
Mr. Lee said fine. He contacted me again at a later time, I said, I still do not have the dvds. At a later date, I did receive the dvds from the seller friend. I contacted Mr. Lee and told him they are available and I would be ready to ship. He sent the money. Unfortunately, it just happened that I had a business-related travel for the next few days. I apologized from Mr. Lee. As opposed to shipping the same or very next day as I typically do, I instead shipped I belive 3rd or 4th day after his payment. I apologized, and to make it up, I asked my friend if I could send (one more additional) bonus dvd. I let Mr. Lee know that I would be sending a 2nd bonus dvd, just as a courtesy since I couldn't make up my promise as to shipping the very next day after shipment, but shipped few days after. Mr. Lee said thank you, he went on to choose his second bonus dvd from the list I provided. Thereinafter shipment, I provided Mr. Lee with the tracking number (I in fact took pics of the postal receipt along with the dvds in the package, so as if something happens, things are evidentiated) Since it is an international shipment, and Mr. Lee appeared to be somehow obnoxious in his messages, I tasked the shipping info into my calendar and I checked the shipment status quite often -along with my regular work- just as a courtesy. Every time -every few days- there was a change in status as to shipment, I e-mailed to Mr. Lee, letting him know about the status of the shipment, solely as a courtesy. Every time I did so, I did NOT receive any "thank you" notes whatsoever. I believe, Mr. Lee did not believe in my words. After a while, he emailed back, saying that the tracking number doesn't pop up in USPS track. I tried to explain "Mr. Lee, the package info will not show at USPS site, up until the package arrives to USPS' posession" (And in fact, sometimes the tracking number does not show up at USPS site, for no apparent reason, up until the day the package is delivered, whether it is domestic or int'l shipping. People who ship or receive things often, knows this) I explained: First, it needs to be delivered to USPS from the originating country's postal company, in this case Turkish Post. I provided him with Turkish Post's English version. I provided him with "click by click" instructions as to how he can find out the status of the shipment. I copied and pasted the whole info. Again, I did not receive any "thanks for doing so" message.

Any package shipped from Turkey (and I believe for most Europe, as I shipped stuff from Germany as well) or vice versa (from US to most Euro) takes around 10-12 business days. I know this from experience.

Mr. Lee contacted me at a much later date. Much longer than the 10-12 business day period, saying he is not satisfied, that they are copies, not originals. I contacted my friend. Now at this point I would like to mention, you make an analogy to "good cop bad cop". I literally laughed when I read that! Have you ever asked for the identity of my friend and that I did not tell you? Ask me from private, I will tell you, you can go ahead and contact him by all means! He told me that the Kozoom vids he had were originals. It appears like I am the bad doer now, for helping in this transaction as this friend does not speak English. Contact me in private and ask me the identity of the person FIRST, before trying and making me look bad. (The fact is, as I myself did not know, either, pirating is a big issue in this side of the world. In this case Mr. Lee's two or three of his dvds turned out to be not O.G, which I was NOT aware of, either)
I relayed your message as to refund to the seller friend. Unfortunately, in this side of the world, it does not work exactly like Walmart's 3 month no questions asked return policy. Most sales are final in this side of the world. Moreover, for DVDs, things are not returnable in most US shops as well. As for the dvds OTHER than the Kozoom vids, this person goes to most major tourneys and records them. Even though the vids were taken by a handheld cam on a tripod, they were excellent quality vids, I have seen them myself. Perfect quality, perfect for watching and perfectly aiding for learning the game. They may even be HD quality, they appeared to be very clear on my plasma. And these stuff are not in youtube nor anywhere. You simply dissed the tourney dvds as no good. I am sorry, but, you know you are wrong. I have seen those carom corner vids as well, wherein they sell match dvds for triple the cost, and for the same quality. (Plus the irritating narration (IMO) that do come with those carom corner dvds, which Mr. Lee thinks so highly of) They are no better quality. To make up for the fact that few of the dvds that you received were not originals -which in fact barks walks and talks the same-, which I explained to my friend, that, not receiving originals could be an issue for the buyer. My friend said, the originals were scratched, therefore he kept a copy in his hardware, of which he sent copies. That is his explanation) I requested few more match dvds that if I could send out to Mr. Lee. He agreed. I relayed the message to Mr. Lee. (These crystal quality dvds that he goes and record matches are really nice. I wholeheartedly can attest to how much fun watching them are. He sells them for approx. 7-15 bucks here in Turkey, these would be selling for triple the amount in US). I currently do not know what his answer was. Moreover, I wanted to send $20 bucks out of my own pocket! (Not that it was a refund, as my friend did not agree to refund, as most people here do not like the idea of refund in this side of the world. It is not exactly Walmart here) If I were to meet Mr. Lee, and if we were to do lunch at, say, Korean BBQ, I would be more than glad to treat him to lunch and talk about the game with him as he is a relatively better known player in the US 3C community -unlike the jokester Mr. 3 Cushion (this was the perspective of my mind, prior to all this) However, I highly doubt if Mr. Lee would spend a dime in a likewise manner. Not that this makes him bad, I am just saying it. Just what I read from the slightly snobbish language of his messages. Just my frank opinion of you, Ira.

And as for "delaying" things, in a sense crafting a method so you could not ask for refund from paypal. Mr. Lee, I absolutely had no idea on whether it would be possible to refund things thru paypal, nor I knew there was a period of time for doing so. I realized this only when I received a message to my email from paypal saying that, you tried to get a refund (or whatever other technical term is) and was not able to do so due to time restrictions. That is when I realized it. I neither delayed things on purpose, nor I am playing good cop bad cop, nor there is a conspiracy theory behind all this. I provided you with the tracking number the very day of sending out the shipment. I provided you with status of shipments quite often. And that is it. I am curious, why didn't you contact me soon after receiving the package, after the 12 days tops delivery process? Why did I hear back from you after a good 1.5 to 2 months? Perhaps you were busy watching hours of dvds? What made you wait for such a long period of time to call this "a bad deal"?

I learned to not mediate/assist or aid any friend whatsoever. When I sell my own stuff, I try to give as much detail as possible, just a habit from doing things on Ebay, so that other party is well-informed. See the detailed pics of the Theory cue which I put up for sale.

Moreover, I see selling stuff here on this forum, as more of a socially-get-together event, as opposed to making money. (My pension fund does not rely on selling carom stuff, unlike "Mr. 3 Cushion". Thank God, I have a high paying job and few $ here are a spit in a pool for me) Carom community is small in where I come from (even though the watching audience can be as much as a basketball arena) In US, it is even much tinier community. So, everybody knows each other. My life does not depend on making a buck fifty by selling carom stuff here. I even request that, deals are made through Ebay, so I can keep keep increasing my positive feedback. However, I learned not to be a mediator for what other people sells.

And for everyone else, who are ready to trash talk on me, who are ready to jump onto conclusions (write your name here) you can kiss my bloody ass to hell :wink:
 
tiger37373 said:
Ira,
Thank you for posting your experience with ipitythefool. Would you mind please posting it in the buyer/seller transaction report sticky, in the for sale section of AZB, as well? I would also urge you to post to his itrader, as this is the easiest way to alert others. Everyone really needs to be informed. As Bill stated, the guy has some issues. I'm not sure if it's a lost in translation thing or not. He can be quite caustic and offensive to people. Apparently being helpful and honest is beyond this person.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip on itrader. Just figured it out. Never used it or looked at it before but the OP should definitely add to the itrade rating for the member in question if he really wants to warn other members.

Just find a post for the member and click on the number after itrade (right side of screen and submit feedback.
 
Ira,

If this doesn't get resolved very quickly, I'd probably take it to the next level in his homeland.

His response is too long to read so assume there's some or a lot of smoke. A little embarrassing for him here on AZ but he's probably thinking no biggie, can't effect me much here in Turkey, so can just take it to his backyard.

Shouldn't be too hard.
 
When paying through Paypal, I would assume that if you use a credit card you are much better protected than a bank account draft. You can always call your credit card company and dispute the charge for up to 9 months after the transaction. At least this is true of non-Paypal credit card transactions. I believe it is also true with Paypal credit card transactions. Use the credit card to better protect yourself. Always.
 
Copied from ipitythefool's reply

"...To make up for the fact that few of the dvds that you received were not originals -which in fact barks walks and talks the same-, which I explained to my friend, that, not receiving originals could be an issue for the buyer. My friend said, the originals were scratched, therefore he kept a copy in his hardware, of which he sent copies..."


Sounds like fraud to me. If it walks, talks, barks like copyrite violation...
If the originals were damaged, and had to be copied, they should not have been offered as original. I may be just another "low-caliber" player, but even I realize that to do business in a foreign market, one must play by their rules.


I've done business with Ira Lee, I've enjoyed Carom TV products, and I have found Ira to be an honorable person.
 
I really don't have a dog in this fight, but since fool requested others who have contacted him to chime in, I pm'd him regarding the Caudron dvd and declined to purchase it when it was clear it was a copy. Initially I thought they were originals that were bought for cheaper outside the US.

Of course piracy is a big deal here...its theft from Caudron, right? The same guy you posted Americans were stupid for doubting he would send a cue on a different thread.

Mr Smith has run a 24, represented the US in world events, written a well received book on the game, and has done far more to earn respect from members here than you, fool. He's from a completely different generation than the modern players. How many Turkish guys his age have done well on the international level? I doubt anyone in this country can name any Turkish players other than Semih and Tasmedir anyway, except maybe a player or two who took Semih's place after his fiasco with the governing body in Turkey. If he is that bad, and you are so good, how much money would you play him for?

21-45 bucks for a handheld video on billiards? You are out of your mind. Accu-Stats sells videos for as cheap as ten bucks, including a Sayginer/Jaspers match with Blomdahl doing the commentary.

You might be a nice guy, but you're selling copies, talking trash to members here, and wouldn't be missed if you went away forever from this stupid American site and stayed on your brilliant Turkish ones instead.
 
bud green said:
I really don't have a dog in this fight, but since fool requested others who have contacted him to chime in, I pm'd him regarding the Caudron dvd and declined to purchase it when it was clear it was a copy. Initially I thought they were originals that were bought for cheaper outside the US.

Of course piracy is a big deal here...its theft from Caudron, right? The same guy you posted Americans were stupid for doubting he would send a cue on a different thread.

Mr Smith has run a 24, represented the US in world events,
***I have NO beef w/him, whatsoever. Everything started when he called one cue that I listed as a knockoff. Pls go read what I wrote in his spanish post. While my language started with total respect in the first posts, in the later posts, it changed towards being rude with a rude person. And is 24 high? A house player at the hall that I go to had a 21 run last week. 26 run I do remember from another player at a local tourney last year.

written a well received book on the game, and has done far more to earn respect from members here than you, fool. He's from a completely different generation than the modern players. How many Turkish guys his age have done well on the international level?
*** First, I would like to hear, what "international" tournaments that he had success? Secondly, I would mention dozens of players who are equally old, respected and great players in this side of the world. For sure.

I doubt anyone in this country can name any Turkish players other than Semih and Tasmedir anyway,
*** I don't expect anyone to name anyone other than Semih in US. In the same respect and for the most part, I don't expect anyone to know about the game of carom in US, either. You just send your very best players, i.e Piedrabuena(? - as usual, US' strength in carom game is relying on either Mexican or the Asian community) or Hugo Patino, and we school them and send them back home. Your very best players get schooled here. Again, I don't expect you to know any carom player game other than Ceulemans, Jaspers, Blomdahl, Caudron and so lol.

except maybe a player or two who took Semih's place after his fiasco with the governing body in Turkey. If he is that bad, and you are so good, how much money would you play him for?

21-45 bucks for a handheld video on billiards? You are out of your mind.
***21-45 bucks? I was selling these on behalf of the local player I befriended, for arond 10-12 bucks, including shipping w/ tracking number. You can try and buy a great quality (may be a handheld cam on tripod, but quality there and I attest to crystal quality thereof. Just one issue, it doesn't come with English narration! Just the hotel music background of the tourneys lol)

Accu-Stats sells videos for as cheap as ten bucks, including a Sayginer/Jaspers match with Blomdahl doing the commentary.
***10 bucks? Did you forget to mention some type of "catch" by any chance? :wink:

You might be a nice guy, but you're selling copies, talking trash to members here, and wouldn't be missed if you went away forever from this stupid American site and stayed on your brilliant Turkish ones instead.
***Well, at least 5-6 members did contact me, including you, to purchase these. Some, I did inform that few Kozoom vids were copies (others are tournament matches and I still attest to their watchability, not copyrighted by anyone) Some, even thought I could have sold to make a buck fifty :) (see Jaime/tiger37??, and quite a few more) I said I would be selling, but I never got back to them, even though I could have stiffed them. But I am not here to stiff people off their buck fifties :) Mr. Ira Lee's were the ones that I FIRST AND LAST sent out. Now I am trying to make it up to him (by offering partial refund from my own pocket, the seller does not agree to refund. And I offered to send him half a dozen match dvds from tourneys around here.) One last word, I will be done on this forum, as I find befriending Americans to be pretty hard.
Click to expand...
10 chars..
 
Cue Sport Respect

ipitythefool.


I played couple of times in Turkey ,Ismir, Ankara & Istanbul,

Turkish billiard community has really a large of international respectful players ,
Semih sayginer ,
Lütfi Berk Çenet (Lütfi Berk)
Murat Naci
Tayfun Tasdemir
Adnan Yüksel
Hakan Incekara
Selim Ozden
Yusuf Özesmer

& many..............

Don't compare US # of 3 cushion Players (1000) to Turkey # of 3 cushion players(10000)


School US players,&send them back!!!
Nobody school no body,This is SPORT ,and keep it as a sport!!!

I remember when Mr Sayginer played Mr Sang lee in Vegas ,,
Sayginer was the world champion at that time & very hard to beat,
he was leading Mr lee, 2 sets to nothing , Sang lee came back to the game and win the tournament!
Do you mean SANG lee Schooled Sayginer and send him back to Turkey.

No MY Friend and Dear friends ,
Talking trash against any player on this website is ILLEGAL !!!

Carom is cue sport , respect it.
 
my ipitythefool experience timeline

ipitythefool said:
Mr. Lee,
Since you preferred to openly bring it out to "public":
Click to expand...

I would have "preferred" not to have had to create this thread at all. I was unable to get a response to my messages after I requested that my money be returned.

Mr. Simsek, if you feel misunderstood and earnestly wish to resolve this issue with me, and perhaps regain trust as a seller, then contact me and you may have that opportunity. In the meantime, since I feel like I understood your intentions toward me, for the benefit of forum members, I must respond on my thread to correct any mistakes that I find concerning your statements about our transaction. I have the facts of history on my side since I have saved all of our correspondence. Still, for your sake, I hope we won't have to hash through it all.

Also, please do not mix up the problems that you have with others on the forum with me, for I have nothing to do with them.

ipitythefool said:
...
He sent the money. Unfortunately, it just happened that I had a business-related travel for the next few days. I apologized from Mr. Lee. As opposed to shipping the same or very next day as I typically do, I instead shipped I belive 3rd or 4th day after his payment. I apologized, and to make it up, I asked my friend if I could send (one more additional) bonus dvd. I let Mr. Lee know that I would be sending a 2nd bonus dvd, just as a courtesy since I couldn't make up my promise as to shipping the very next day after shipment, but shipped few days after. Mr. Lee said thank you, he went on to choose his second bonus dvd from the list I provided.
...
Every time -every few days- there was a change in status as to shipment, I e-mailed to Mr. Lee, letting him know about the status of the shipment, solely as a courtesy. Every time I did so, I did NOT receive any "thank you" notes whatsoever. I believe, Mr. Lee did not believe in my words. After a while, he emailed back, saying that the tracking number doesn't pop up in USPS track. I tried to explain "Mr. Lee, the package info will not show at USPS site,...Again, I did not receive any "thanks for doing so" message.
Any package shipped from Turkey (and I believe for most Europe, as I shipped stuff from Germany as well) or vice versa (from US to most Euro) takes around 10-12 business days. I know this from experience.

Mr. Lee contacted me at a much later date. Much longer than the 10-12 business day period, saying he is not satisfied, that they are copies, not originals. I contacted my friend. Now at this point I would like to mention, you make an analogy to "good cop bad cop". I literally laughed when I read that! Have you ever asked for the identity of my friend and that I did not tell you? Ask me from private, I will tell you, you can go ahead and contact him by all means! He told me that the Kozoom vids he had were originals. It appears like I am the bad doer now, for helping in this transaction as this friend does not speak English. Contact me in private and ask me the identity of the person FIRST, before trying and making me look bad. (The fact is, as I myself did not know, either, pirating is a big issue in this side of the world. In this case Mr. Lee's two or three of his dvds turned out to be not O.G, which I was NOT aware of, either)
I relayed your message as to refund to the seller friend. Unfortunately, in this side of the world, it does not work exactly like Walmart's 3 month no questions asked return policy. Most sales are final in this side of the world. Moreover, for DVDs, things are not returnable in most US shops as well.
Click to expand...

You have twisted things around a bit acting as if you were not aware that I requested a refund. Your lack of response told me that YOU did not wish to issue me a refund. You see, my analogy was actually spot-on. In this scenario, you played the "good cop" and your friend was the "bad cop" (I was the person getting whacked over the head with a baton). Understand that I don't have to accept being coerced into paying for DVDs that I did not order, regardless of their "quality".

Here is the summary of the timeline. Forum members can decide on their own if the timelines, events and protocol are reasonable:

7/15/10: I sent a message to Mr. Simsek and offered to pay him $100 for 4 DVDs he posted (with pics) for sale. He told me he wasn't ready to sell them yet and he would get back to me. I wasn't in a rush.
8/12/10: Mr. Simsek said he was ready to send them. I immediately sent him $100 for 4 DVDs (3 Kozoom products and 1 Sayginer Magic Show) via PayPal.
8/17/10: Not sent yet. Mr. Simsek contacts me to ask me to select a separate "bonus" dvd before he can send. Not something I originally ordered, but I thank him and I do so.
8/26/10: Mr. Simsek appologizes in a message to me that the package is still not sent yet. But says that he will send it soon. I remain patient.
8/27/10: Mr. Simsek informs me that the package has been sent - providing a foreign looking tracking #. I attempt to track it using various known carriers. Nothing works.
9/1/10: Mr. Simsek gives me a turkish postal link which provides no meaningful information about the package whereabouts. Mr. Simsek pastes me some lines that he apparently cut out from his search results. Says the package is in the US now and that I should be able to track it with USPS. Not true.
9/6/10: Still no package. No info from the turkish postal tracking #. Mr. Simsek suggests me to wait till Friday 9/10/10. Friday comes and goes.
A week later 9/17/10, the package arrives at my parent's house. (I was moving at the time so I had the package shipped there). When I open it I am angry to see a bunch of cheap handwritten bootleg DVDs - I want a refund right away. Still, I try hard to play them, but most don't even play. I spend the next couple of days trying different video players and computer software. Even as bootlegs, most of the DVDs had problems being incomplete and broken.
9/21/10: I send a message to Mr. Simsek explaining my problem and expressing my objection to the pirated videos (being represented as originals). I offer to buy the "2 bonus DVDs" he sent me (the ones I didn't even order) for $20 and ask for $80 back for the broken bootlegs. I actually think the quality of those videos is good - they at least PLAYED. He responds saying that he will forward my complaints to his "friend" and see what he says. Already, I am feeling a bit uneasy. But at least Mr. Simsek informs me that his friend happens also to be a close friend of Semih Sayginer - as I am.
9/23/10: No response from Mr. Simsek yet. I send another message asking if his "friend" has responded. Nothing.
9/24/10: I send yet another message to Mr. Simsek to find out if his "friend" has responded. He responds by apologizing to me that his "friend" declined my refund request. Mr. Simsek offers to give me $20 (the amount of his commission) and to select more match DVDs. I RESPOND CLEARLY STATING THAT I AM NOT INTERESTED in that resolution (more DVDs) and that I WANT A REFUND. This is the LAST communication that I will receive from Mr. Simsek.
9/28/10: I send a message to explain my position clearly to Mr. Simsek - that I felt deeply saddened. Within the message, about his friend I say this, "I don't know his name as you have shielded me from his identity. All I know about him (from you) is that he is a "close friend" of Semih's. What I know about you (through our brief dialog) is that you seemed to share the same enthusiasm about the game as I do which gave me the first impression that yours would be a positive association. Unfortunately, I am getting the sense that you have chosen to take his side on this issue at the end of the day." I get no response from Mr. Simsek.
10/4/10: Still no response. I send a final message to Mr. Simsek to let him know that I feel stolen from. <crickets...>


ipitythefool said:
As for the dvds OTHER than the Kozoom vids, this person goes to most major tourneys and records them.
...
You simply dissed the tourney dvds as no good. I am sorry, but, you know you are wrong. I have seen those carom corner vids as well, wherein they sell match dvds for triple the cost, and for the same quality. (Plus the irritating narration (IMO) that do come with those carom corner dvds, which Mr. Lee thinks so highly of) They are no better quality. To make up for the fact that few of the dvds that you received were not originals -which in fact barks walks and talks the same-, which I explained to my friend, that, not receiving originals could be an issue for the buyer. My friend said, the originals were scratched, therefore he kept a copy in his hardware, of which he sent copies. That is his explanation) I requested few more match dvds that if I could send out to Mr. Lee. He agreed. I relayed the message to Mr. Lee. ...
I wanted to send $20 bucks out of my own pocket! (Not that it was a refund, as my friend did not agree to refund, as most people here do not like the idea of refund in this side of the world. It is not exactly Walmart here) If I were to meet Mr. Lee, and if we were to do lunch at, say, Korean BBQ, I would be more than glad to treat him to lunch and talk about the game with him ...
However, I highly doubt if Mr. Lee would spend a dime in a likewise manner. Not that this makes him bad, I am just saying it. Just what I read from the slightly snobbish language of his messages. Just my frank opinion of you, Ira.
Click to expand...

I actually never had any problem with content or quality of the "bonus" DVDs that your friend recorded. As for the Caromtv videos, you are entitled to your opinion about them. I am probably biased because I am a co-founder. The most important thing about them is that their production is a labor of love (of the announcer, Jan Carl) and every penny of profit (and then some) is donated to fund tournaments (i.e. Sang Lee International Open) in order to promote the game.

Your opinion about me personally is irrelevant here. I have been known to act out snobbishly with people that I believe are stealing from me.

ipitythefool said:
And as for "delaying" things, in a sense crafting a method so you could not ask for refund from paypal. Mr. Lee, I absolutely had no idea on whether it would be possible to refund things thru paypal, nor I knew there was a period of time for doing so. I realized this only when I received a message to my email from paypal saying that, you tried to get a refund (or whatever other technical term is) and was not able to do so due to time restrictions. ...

Why did I hear back from you after a good 1.5 to 2 months? Perhaps you were busy watching hours of dvds? What made you wait for such a long period of time to call this "a bad deal"?
Click to expand...

And just because you assumed the delivery time would be 12 days doesn't make it so. The timeline shows that you took a very long to send the package - far more than a "few days" - you repeatedly apologized for the delays that you were creating. I remained extremely patient throughout as you dragged the entire process out far longer than it should have taken. At the end of the day, it was I who got stuck.

I would like to believe that you didn't intentionally orchestrate the delay so that I could have no recourse through PayPal, but from any other side of the fence than yours, you must understand that the actions themselves don't appear as noble as you say. I'd like to be proven wrong in the end.

If you have any serious intention of resolving this issue with me then I welcome your dialog. Bear in mind, I don't wish to be coerced into buying more of your friends DVDs, regardless of their quality. To be clear, I am interested only in getting a refund for the DVDs that I paid for, but never received. If this happens I will post here under this thread, that a successful resolution was made. Until that happens, Mr. Simsek, I'm afraid dinner is out of the question.

-Ira

Just now, I noticed a private message in my inbox from you. Composing this message response has taken some time and it clarifies most of the points that you threw up. Therefore, I shall post this before opening my inbox to see what your message says.
 
bud green said:
I really don't have a dog in this fight, but since fool requested others who have contacted him to chime in, I pm'd him regarding the Caudron dvd and declined to purchase it when it was clear it was a copy. Initially I thought they were originals that were bought for cheaper outside the US.

Of course piracy is a big deal here...its theft from Caudron, right? The same guy you posted Americans were stupid for doubting he would send a cue on a different thread.

Mr Smith has run a 24, represented the US in world events, written a well received book on the game, and has done far more to earn respect from members here than you, fool. He's from a completely different generation than the modern players. How many Turkish guys his age have done well on the international level? I doubt anyone in this country can name any Turkish players other than Semih and Tasmedir anyway, except maybe a player or two who took Semih's place after his fiasco with the governing body in Turkey. If he is that bad, and you are so good, how much money would you play him for?

21-45 bucks for a handheld video on billiards? You are out of your mind. Accu-Stats sells videos for as cheap as ten bucks, including a Sayginer/Jaspers match with Blomdahl doing the commentary.

You might be a nice guy, but you're selling copies, talking trash to members here, and wouldn't be missed if you went away forever from this stupid American site and stayed on your brilliant Turkish ones instead.
Click to expand...

Since I am friends with both Caudron and Sayginer, I take particular issue with this being pirated copies of their material in this transaction.

-Ira
 
Rabitvu, how did you contact this person? Considering you just registered this month, how did you PM the person?

Or are you saying that you just bought the items and expect them in 5 months?

Mike
 
don't buy things from this forum

Hi all
I suggest all members try to buy DVDs or books from most popular distributor like Kozoom or Lithol because I have same problem like Mr. Ira. I've bought a three cushion book and a DVD for $48.00 from this forum, it took 5 month to get it.
Most information is not accurate. It's waste of money:(

I bought it because I don't want to pay more like other members who like to buy cheap and copied dvds. We don't want to pay $50.00 for a good quality dvd from kozoom or $100 for good billiard book from Lithol from Germany!
I've learnt my lesson I rather to pay more and get what I expect.
 
Hi again
I've joint today but I've contacted that person via his link from this forum last April 2010. (I paid it via PayPal too)

I don't want to expose his name, maybe it can harm his reputation and like I said in previous post it was my fault too. (don't want to pay more to get quality things):(
I bought this book and dvd along with about 30 members of this forum. I don't know do they have same problem like me or not.
 
RabitVu said:
Hi again
I've joint today but I've contacted that person via his link from this forum last April 2010. (I paid it via PayPal too)

I don't want to expose his name, maybe it can harm his reputation and like I said in previous post it was my fault too. (don't want to pay more to get quality things):(
I bought this book and dvd along with about 30 members of this forum. I don't know do they have same problem like me or not.
Click to expand...

Wait a second. Who are you? Which "that person" are you talking about? When you post in this thread in such manner, it is sounding like I sold dvd/book (or anything for that matter) ALSO to you. CLARIFY if THAT PERSON is me, or not!

I did NOT sell anything to you, whatsoever. In fact, I did NOT sell anything to anyone (with the exception to Ira, on behalf of the local seller) in this billiard forum. And I refused to sell (by not responding/delaying etc) to all the other members who contacted me, once I realized that two or three Kozoom vids that I have are pirated. I could still sell the other match DVDs, but frankly, I either got busy, or lazy for doing so. (One exception other than Ira, someone from this forum requested that I buy a cue from a local cuemaker, I have been paypaled approx $450, and in return I shipped the cue to such friend from this forum. I did so free of charge, mainly bec. someone was interested in a local cuemaker's cue from this side of the world, and mainly bec. the selling cuemaking co. cannot communicate in English. I did this all due to patriotic feelings:))
In fact, I did NOT sell anything to anyone else on internet, other than on Ebay, at which I do have a 100% pos feedback.

Rabitvu, it just appeared to me, by posting here, you make it sound as if I also sold to you or something! PLEASE CLARIFY if you have anything to do with me, or not. Thank you.
 
Last edited:
iralee said:
I would have "preferred" not to have had to create this thread at all. I was unable to get a response to my messages after I requested that my money be returned.

*** I understand, Ira. Frankly, I do not check this billiard forum often since "carom" section is too slow here; at one point in our message correspondences, I provided you w/ my email addy and thought you'd perhaps contact me thereto; and last but not least, I guess it is fun at this point for people to read this thread :) I don't want to turn this thread into a long and uneasy to read thread and I'd rather resolve this issue via private pm'ing. However, if I don't respond to this specific thread, it may look like I "couldn't" respond and so forth :) I will briefly try and respond as I don't have much time. I hope, as some people posted before, they would rather read my full responses, as opposed to not reading and posting in this thread: "The guy's response is too long to read, therefore he must be a crook" :)

Mr. Simsek, if you feel misunderstood and earnestly wish to resolve this issue with me, and perhaps regain trust as a seller, then contact me and you may have that opportunity.
*** Actually, I did contact you. Judging from what you wrote below, my message to you came in while you are writing this thread. I guess you felt compelled to finish up writing this, as opposed to simply responding to me in private. I understand this, too :)

In the meantime, since I feel like I understood your intentions toward me, for the benefit of forum members, I must respond on my thread to correct any mistakes that I find concerning your statements about our transaction. I have the facts of history on my side since I have saved all of our correspondence. Still, for your sake, I hope we won't have to hash through it all.

***Still, for our sake, perfectly agreed.

Also, please do not mix up the problems that you have with others on the forum with me, for I have nothing to do with them.

***I am the scapegoat of this forum :D I am the one who tries to bring a different point of view, different way of thinking to this carom section, sometimes doing so by telling my frank opinions. More than likely I would not be too frank if I got together in real, I guess it is the comfort zone that internet gives to people. In my case, it makes me to tell my opoinions frankly.
Since I do live in Turkey, and it is, in a sense: What Brazil is to soccer, I think, that is what Turkey is to the game of three cushion. (I mean in the sense of, gazillions of people do play this game here, all kinds of trickshots, talk, news and etc) But again, "soccer/football" does not mean much to US spectators. So, again, my analogy might be one of those which just nobody give a flying you know what I mean :) Anyhow, perfectly agreed here as well.

You have twisted things around a bit acting as if you were not aware that I requested a refund. Your lack of response told me that YOU did not wish to issue me a refund. You see, my analogy was actually spot-on. In this scenario, you played the "good cop" and your friend was the "bad cop" (I was the person getting whacked over the head with a baton).

***First, in relation to this forum, not relating to our good-gone-bad deal, if there is someone getting whacked over the head w/ baton, that would be me! Also, I have NOT twisted things, just my points of view. And I was in the assumption that you could contact me at anytime! I am perfectly aware that you want a refund for the DVDs, for a small (it is a small transaction) transaction I merely assisted, and from other part of the world wherein they don't have the refund policies, not even the least! Nonetheless, I myself offered to you a small portion of refund from my pocket, and sending you a lot more match DVDs, the ones that were given to me, to make this up to you, Ira.

Understand that I don't have to accept being coerced into paying for DVDs that I did not order, regardless of their "quality".

***If I understand you correctly, you are referring to my wish to send you a lot more of "my" match DVDs in lieu of the full refund (?) I apologize if I got you wrong.

Here is the summary of the timeline. Forum members can decide on their own if the timelines, events and protocol are reasonable:

7/15/10: I sent a message to Mr. Simsek and offered to pay him $100 for 4 DVDs he posted (with pics) for sale. He told me he wasn't ready to sell them yet and he would get back to me. I wasn't in a rush.
***Correct.
8/12/10: Mr. Simsek said he was ready to send them. I immediately sent him $100 for 4 DVDs (3 Kozoom products and 1 Sayginer Magic Show) via PayPal.
*** Some of them were double sets of DVDs, if I recall correctly. Correct.
8/17/10: Not sent yet. Mr. Simsek contacts me to ask me to select a separate "bonus" dvd before he can send. Not something I originally ordered, but I thank him and I do so.
8/26/10: Mr. Simsek appologizes in a message to me that the package is still not sent yet. But says that he will send it soon. I remain patient.

****** Ira, what I previously mentioned as four-five days of delay, your timeline of my delay in sending these are more than likely more correct than my previous explanation. However, please bear in mind, this was merely a transaction that I assisted, no buck in it for me. Moreover, I am a working person. A week could fly in a whim. And I clearly recall that period of time, I really had to fly to a different location, of which no notice was given to me, hence I couldn't take care of stopping at a p.o to send your package. But still, I understand, sending late, there should be no excuse. I sincerely apologize for sending you late thereinafter your payment.

Perhaps, a better way for me to handle things should have been: After being late for 10 days, thereafter your payment, I should have said: "Ira, I am 10 days late of your shipment, been busy, would you like an immediate refund?" Alternatively, I wish you made such request. Instead, I asked to you what it appeared to me a better way of handling things: "Ira, I would like to send you one more bonus dvd (from the list of match DVDs that I provided) as a courtesy and in return for me being late in shipment." You said thank you, and went ahead with choosing more DVDs. You seemed happy, from the language of your message :) If I were the buying person, it would seem reasonable to me to get one more dvd, since the seller did not quickly ship out and shows such courtesy. I would say, why not, I will get uno mas DVD.


8/27/10: Mr. Simsek informs me that the package has been sent - providing a foreign looking tracking #. I attempt to track it using various known carriers. Nothing works.
Click to expand...
 
PayPal won't back you in any purchases made outside of ebay. If your PayPal is funded by a credit card, you can contact the credit card conpany for help. If you're lucky they will help you.
 
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